Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Why can't you get good Scotch tape anymore?

This is topic Why can't you get good Scotch tape anymore? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-01-2009, 03:52 PM:

I use Scotch tape to put onesheets up in our front doors. Recently I found an "old" tape dispenser from around 8 or 10 years ago that was pretty busted up but still had tape in it. I was AMAZED how much thinner the tape is now, compared to what was in the old dispenser.

Also, you can't find a decent plain old tape dispenser these days. Either they are cheap plastic (with a plastic cutter that isn't sharp) or they are a newfangled lever-driven thing that clogs up with the microthin tape. I would just like to find a nice dispenser with a metal cutter blade.

Doesn't anybody make decent transparent tape any more?!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-01-2009, 04:28 PM:

Of course not. Thinner is cheaper, and cheaper is better. It's no longer about quality, it's about price. That's how the world works now. Sad.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 10-01-2009, 04:41 PM:

Is it actually Scotch tape made by 3M, or some knockoff? Even 3M makes some price-competitive crap now but if you search you can find the good stuff. You won't find it at the grocery store though. Try a well-stocked stationary store, or Office Depot or some place like that.

Tape dispensers that work

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-01-2009, 05:54 PM:

Here my my tape dispensers:

I could not find them anywhere locally. I eventually did find them while I was in California one time, so I bought 2. They are great, genuine 3M. That was nearly 10 years ago.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-01-2009, 06:39 PM:

Office Depot and OfficeMax carries the good 3M tape and dispensers.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-01-2009, 11:05 PM:

...wow, and loaded with Artist's Tape ....

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-01-2009, 11:59 PM:

I have some double sided tape from 3M that will hold a movie poster in place or certain other items a good bit heavier. When using that stuff, once that poster is in place it ain't coming loose unless it comes loose in shreds.
[Razz]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-02-2009, 12:40 AM:

What about Sellotape?

The stuff is made from real cellophane and the adhesive is rubber based.

It's the best thing for taping gels together for scroler strings.

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 10-02-2009, 08:31 AM:

I use that 3M Scotch "Magic Tape" The frosted one that becomes clear on paper. The quality seems pretty good still.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 10-02-2009, 10:26 AM:

Randy,

What are scroler strings?

Anything like the old Killer Whales?

KEN

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-02-2009, 10:56 AM:

On the stage, when you want to have colored lights, you place translucent, colored "gels" in front of the lights.

If you want to have a light that can produce multiple colors, one way of doing this is to use a motorized "scroller." A scroller has a roll of gels, taped together in a row, which are scrolled back and forth between two spindles. Using various electronic/computer control devices, you command the motor inside the scroller to run back and forth to index a given color of gel in front of the light.

When you set up a scroller, somebody has to create the "strings" of gels for the spindles. Typically, pieces of gel are cut to size then taped together in a row before being rolled up on the spindles and inserted into the scroller.

These gel strings are under tension and they also have to be able to withstand a certain amount of heat. If you use cheap tape, it can let loose when you least expect it. The gel strings will separate and the motor will freewheel, causing the gel strings to go "Flap! Flap! Flap!" inside the scroller. It's a big annoyance to the audience watching the show.

Different people like to use different brands of tape, claiming the virtues of each one. Some have stronger backing. Some have better heat resistance. Some have better adhesive. Etc, etc. etc.

I've seen a lot of people use "Sellotape"
http://sellotape.henkel-online.co.uk/

They claim it has good heat resistance and strength. The adhesive, being latex based, has good strength and, when it's time to peel off, the tape is not too difficult to remove.

There are many different brands of tape. Some people use heavy vinyl tape. I have even seen some people who heat-weld gels together. But, for some reason, Sellotape seems to be popular.

That's why I mentioned it.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 10-02-2009, 11:11 AM:

3M makes a bazillion different scotch tapes under various model numbers. Are you comparing the same model number now to then?

They're actually quite a technically-oriented company. You can find technical data sheets for many of their products (though not for all the consumer ones).

--jhawk

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-02-2009, 11:23 AM:

quote: David Stambaugh
Is it actually Scotch tape made by 3M, or some knockoff? Even 3M makes some price-competitive crap now but if you search you can find the good stuff. You won't find it at the grocery store though. Try a well-stocked stationary store, or Office Depot or some place like that.

Well, the last stuff I bought was the red-plaid 3/4" 3M tape. I got a 10-pack of it at Office Max. I don't like the "magic" tape because, while it disppears on paper, it still looks frosty on glass, so it's not as good for putting posters in windows.

For at least 15 years I had a plain old standard plastic dispenser, which I guarded with my life because it had a metal blade. But it disappeared and I've been looking for a good replacement since. I'll check that link above...anything would be better than the stupid lever-driven one I have now.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-02-2009, 11:47 AM:

Yeah...with 3M/Scotch...there really are about a bazillion models of their tapes. It is important to know the model number to ensure you get what you really want. I know that when we ordered box packing tape they just ordered scotch tape and what came was that thin crap that folds over on itself, tears...and is otherwise unusable. I then looked on the roll of the good stuff...got the number and said "order THAT" it came in and ahh...the good stuff.

As someone else said...I guess they have to be competitive with the crap out there but the good stuff is still there too.

Steve

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-02-2009, 01:19 PM:

Second Randy's recommendation for taping gels used in scrollers.
We used to use a gazillion of them on Starlight Express at the Las Vegas Hilton.

One year we had the USITT convention here in LAS. One of their more fun events was a "scroller shootout" - set up a bunch of competing scrollers with the same gels, then set them to scroll continuously back and forth until death did them part. Sadly, I don't remember who won that one. [Big Grin]

Derailed - we now return to the regularly scheduled thread already in progress...

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-02-2009, 11:14 PM:

So I am now left wondering what model packing tape does Sir Guttag requires?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-03-2009, 10:15 AM:

Well 3M makes a really good packaging tape...#06640

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 10-07-2009, 04:49 AM:

glad this is not a localized problem , I too have been having problems in OZ finding quality tape to fix posters in the display boxes. cant always get the 3m scotch masking tape here , the cheaper brands are useless , next day all the posters have fallen in a heap at bottom of display boxes.

I have found the norton bear brand to be ok , not sure if you can get that over in USA.

3M is still the best I have come across.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 10-07-2009, 11:25 AM:

I've had good luck with Duck brand tapes, a product of Henkel Corp. of Akron Ohio.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-07-2009, 12:20 PM:

My workplace goes through quite a bit of different kinds of 3M tapes. We use a lot of the green Scotch masking tapes. The double sided stuff I mentioned earlier is 3M's "VHB" series, which comes with a red backing you peel away after applying the tape. 3M has a number of other double sided tapes.

We go through a lot more in the way of 3M Controltac vinyls and laminates for digital printed graphics as well as a good amount of 3M colored high performance and translucent vinyls. 3M's 180C "V3" material is awesome. You can wad it up into a ball and yet pull it apart, apply heat from a torch and it's still in great shape to apply. Very few vinyls can do that. That stuff is pretty expensive, but it generally holds up better than similar products from Avery, Arlon, Calon, etc.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-24-2010, 10:11 PM:

Well half of my quest has been resolved. I found out that 3M still makes the good old hand-held refillable plastic dispensers with the metal blade. The part number of them is H-127.

What's amazing is the ridiculous variations in price -- I found them at Amazon for over $5 apiece (!) and on the other end of the spectrum, at an online store called www.genuine-only.com for 84¢ each.

So I bought five of them from genuine-only.

Now if I could only find the "good" tape. The stuff I have now is 3M's cat. #600. It's good tape (and photo-safe) but it's the micro-thin stuff. It doesn't show a thickness number on the label anywhere, so I'm not sure how to compare it. The older tape was like typing paper, whereas this tape is about the thickness of gift wrapping paper.