Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Hellish home buying stories, anyone?

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Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 10-02-2009, 09:20 PM:

So I took the leap and bought a house. (helloooo tax credit) Well, I'm under contract for one.

I like the house a lot, and haggled a bit on the price, but not too much. The home inspection was on Wednesday. It went OK, BUT, it needs a new roof. It needs new valleys ASAP, and the roof probably has only a year or two left on it. I'm getting together with my realtor tomorrow to hammer out what I want fixed (A ROOF!).

I fear that the lady won't fix it what so ever, or give me some sort of credit or escrow for a new one. Luckly I'm under the 'contingent on home inspection' clause. If thats the case, I'm walking. I know you may think it that thats not necassarily something she should fix, but I do. IMO, if she really wants to sell it, she should have had a home inspection before she put it on the market to tell her the roof is basically shot.

So does anyone have any hellish buying stories, like seller won't fix a major problem, FHA wouldn't give you the loan because of it, etc etc?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 10-03-2009, 07:30 AM:

I would think that with the market the way it is now, if she won't fix the roof there are plenty of other houses to consider. (You may know this..) When the roof gets old you can just place another layer on top, but after the second layer gets old, both layers have to come off.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-03-2009, 08:10 AM:

That is called a "rolled roof" and some insurance agencies will not insure a rolled roof.

Steve

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-03-2009, 08:33 AM:

Up here one can have a max of 5 layers of shingles then it must be stripped

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 10-03-2009, 04:30 PM:

A new roof is probably expensive enough that you're justified in demanding a concession to cover the required improvements or that it be done on her nickel. If you have the choice of which option to take, find out what the roof will cost to do it the way you want it done, and have that amount deducted from the purchase or included as a cash disbursement to the buyer on closing.

If the roof is that bad, she probably knew that it needed to be replaced and hoped that she could get away without having to fix it.

Here in the Milwaukee area, two layers of shingles are the maximum. I don't know if that's code or just common sense, but either way, it's a good guideline IMO.

Stick to your guns about the necessary repairs. Unless you got the house for a song, there's no reason to buy a house that needs a major repair and not have the seller be responsible for it.

Congrats on the house, though, it's one of the most exciting and life-changing things a person can do!

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 10-03-2009, 05:16 PM:

I bought my house in 2005 and it needed a new roof, but I specifically wanted to be the one to put it on. Most sellers who are willing to do any work you request as part of the sales agreement will do the cheapest, shittiest job you will ever see! Probably within ten years you'll have to redo whatever you originally wanted them to fix in the first place.

I was never then - nor am I now - in love with my house. The price was right, taxes are low, and the school district is in the top 100 out of 500 in the state. The house itself was built about 1956 and somewhat updated about 1975. Construction was shoddy to begin with and the update was just as bad. Windows and electric service were replaced in 1998, the new breaker box just mounted right over the old one. Although I bought the house from the original owner, I'd say he had what my step-mother calls a "renter's mentality", that is to say he was not very intelligent in his choices and even more sloppy in his installation of those choices.

So in the past four years I've had to replace the roof, the flooring in all seven rooms, all window trim and baseboards, one toilet, two sinks, part of a wall (that had mold growing on the inside), one bedroom door, several switches and non-grounded plugs, and a poorly constructed driveway and that did, indeed, nearly bankrupt me.

And I wouldn't had let the guy who sold me the house touch any off it, because even though I'm struggling pay check to pay check, I at least know the work was done right.

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 10-03-2009, 07:07 PM:

I bought my house on the cheap a few years ago. It was a rental unit for who knows how long. I figure it was built around the 20's or 30's. Galvanized pipes.. At some point someone added a bunch of aluminum wiring to take some of the load of the knob and tube (It still has a 100amp fuse panel). Layers and layers of flooring glued down to the original hardwood on the main level (i got it back!). The kitchen was a disaster. It was a low enough tag on it that I just put the money towards new materials. It was an almost complete gut. New carpets and vinyl everywhere I couldn't recover the hardwood. Kitchen is 100% new and up to code. new walls in most rooms. All broken windows replaced (I have six more windows coming any day to replace the rest of the originals). It's a lot of work, but it really feels like home this way.

I do want to see Gord's roof with 5 layers of shingles on it. I figure if I'm already on the roof I might as well grab a shovel and take off the old ones. I replaced a section of my roof this year for only a few hundred bucks because I did it myself.

I'd still try to get discounts over expensive things that need to be done to a home, but remember, a case of beer and some friends can usually get a new roof put on for a fraction of the cost of contracting. This technique applies to most home reno's [Smile]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-03-2009, 07:23 PM:

I tend to agree with the idea that it would be better to get the price lowered and the money applied towards you contracting for the new roof. The seller is going to take the "low-bid" to heart and that is the roof you are going to have to live with or pay to replace anyway.

Homes are going to forever need something. My personal nightmare has been plumbing...which is amazing considering how basic the plumbing is here. Just a couple of weeks ago I got so POed with the pin-hole leaks, me and a friend ripped just about all of the copper out and replaced with CPVC. And this is on a house we want to bulldoze to replace with a "real" one once the money is there.

Steve

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 10-03-2009, 08:36 PM:

Ha ha, old pipes... always replace them....

This was my dinning room last winter. I didn't replace the cast iron drain pipes for my bathroom... one of them started to leak from the shower down into the room below. I strapped over the plaster and put drywall on, so I had to cut down two ceilings... two very wet mucky ceilings. I replaced all the piping in the bathroom while i had the ceiling open. It's all aquapex and PVC now. That hardest part was putting drywall back up and making it look seamless with the rest of the ceiling.

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 10-03-2009, 08:38 PM:

I think I'm going to take everyones advice and ask to take some off the purchase price. I got with the realtor today and told her my main concern was the roof. At least have the seller replace the valleys. So I made my tiny list of repairs and we'll see whats next.

If the seller comes back and flat out says NO on the valleys, we're going to get an estimate on the roof, then I will ask for it to be deducted from the p.p. If fixing the valleys is under $1000, then I'm going to ask for my earnest money back.

There are hardwood floors through out the house, but they are a mess. But I one of a few people that enjoy carpet so thats what I'm putting in the living room.

Oh, and I'm more than happy to get to restore these little air vent gems:

And not to mention repaint this door (i LOVE this door!)

Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 10-07-2009, 08:29 PM:

Back in 2004, we bought a house that was built in 1964. It's a little ranch and it needed some work but the foundation was solid, the basement had been waterproofed and the neighborhood is great. This is a neighborhood with a lot of old people who are nearing death (two across the street died within the past few years) most of which are the original owners who built these homes. Two more right near us were just recently admitted to retirement homes and don't have much time left I'm afraid. Since we moved in here we have seen an abundance of young people our age move in and have kids since these are nice starter homes. Ours is 1,100 square feet and most are just like ours since they were built by the same builder.

Anyhow, we bought ours knowing that it would need a new roof and water heater and furnace. We still have the water heater and furnace (had to fix the furnace last week and it's still hobbling along) but we replaced the roof around 2006. We had the old attic fan removed and they installed ridge vent as well as replaced a lot of plywood. It was two layers and they had to do a tear off but I would have insisted they do that anyways since I am the most anal person you will ever meet. We just had all of our doors replaced this past summer and we replaced the garage door several years ago. Three years ago we had our kitchen completely redone. They vaulted the ceiling, put in two skylights, added recessed lighting and knocked out half of a wall. I did the gutting but we hired someone to do the rest. There are things I see everyday that drive me nuts in their workmanship. Cabinets not set straight, drywall seams splitting and bad patch jobs that you see when the lights are on. [Mad]

If you hire anyone to do work on your new home, research the heck out of them and don't be afraid to kick them in the ass if they do it lousy. They don't care what it looks like because it isn't theirs so you have to watch them like a hawk. That is the best advice I can give any new homeowner.

When we moved in I swore to never let a contractor touch my house since I am so anal and most people in today's world take no pride in their workmanship and could give a rat's ass. Reality set in not long after though when I undertook the main bath remodel because my wife doesn't have the patience for my progress or lack thereof. I had to replace stud walls and subflooring due to a leak the previous owner didn't fix and I had to completely gut it. It took almost three years to complete it because I would never want to work on it because I was tired from my job all the time and I hate doing house work. These past two weekends I spent in my attic in the garage installing a ladder, laying down plywood and running wiring for lights so we could have storage space to clean out the basement so I can build my screening room. [thumbsup]

We had a tree removed this past summer that died and we have over an acre of land so yard work is time consuming and expensive! I am also in the process of redoing all of our closets, we remodeled a bedroom before my son came and upgraded the electrical panel to 200 amp when the kitchen was done. My next project is to replace all of the attic insulation as most of it is original and has flattened over time to about 1/2" thick. Someone tried covering it with newer stuff but did a shoddy job. That is my fall project after building my kids play system.

A house is a huge money and time pit. We are quickly outgrowing ours. Experienced homeowners always tell me that right when we get it where we want it, we will move.

A young guy I work with is trying to buy a foreclosed home right now to get the tax credit and I have warned him that life as he knows it will change forever. Financially and time wise.

Some of my remodel pics:

Kitchen Before

Kitchen nearing completion. Not sure why I never took a completed one. Will have to do that.

Bathroom Before

Bathroom nearing completion. There is now a drawer under that counter (you can see the slides for it), There are also shelves under the counter and there is a towel holder on the wall.

Attic Storage was my latest project. Still need to add the trim.

More Attic

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-08-2009, 05:50 AM:

So what is with the salad bowl type sink? I just don't get the "on-the-counter" sinks...esthetically or functionally. One has to reach higher (already tough on young ones) and I find that the water is more likely to splash out.

We do have the same oven though.

And yes, a house is a money pit...there is always SOMETHING to do to or with them. Then again, they are nice places to live too.

Steve

Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 10-08-2009, 08:27 AM:

We are both tall people so the height of the sink is great for us. I'm 6'-4" and she is 5'-10". I actually have back problems because I am always having to bend over or slouch due to everything being made for "average height people". All of the shelves and workbenches I built at work are made higher since I was the one using them the most. My coworkers complain about it a lot. I just tell them, now they know what it is like for me to live in their world. [Razz]

My wife really liked the vessel sinks and I liked the way they looked too since they were more modern. We always sit our son in the sink when we need to wash his hands and he loves to play with the water. I do agree with you though about the water splashing. Since we have had it I have found it aggravating to have to clean off the mirror and counter all the time because the water splashes out so easily. I have also found that when I shave, the stubble does not go down very easily and I have to wipe the sink out afterward. The kicker is that this sink cost two to three times the price of a normal sink and the faucet was around three to four times the price of a normal faucet. If I had to do it again I probably would have just installed a normal sink.

Our house is like yours Steve in that there is always something needing to be done. Sometimes it can get overwhelming to look around and see all the projects and not know where to start. They say a house is a good investment, but I doubt we will be able to recover the money we have put into ours even if the housing market does go back up. Then again, that is partly our fault because we did opt for higher quality building materials that you don't normally find in a house of this price range. We bought solid wood cabinets, granite countertops and travertine floors. I think most people go down to Home Depot or Lowe's and just buy the generic vanities or cabinets off the shelf with a laminate countertop. My wife is the frugal one and she would have been happy with that, but since I am a spender and value quality, we spent more than we needed to. We went WAY over budget on the kitchen. [Eek!]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-08-2009, 12:32 PM:

Check this out...we just replaced all of the copper plumbing in our house (me and a co-worker one Sunday) and I plan to bulldoze the house as soon as I can afford its replacement. So any $ spent is definitely not coming back. So my goal is to spend the least on the current place and put a really nice new house on the same property.

In the end, I hope to only need to borrow to cover the new house. That house with the land will always, even in these troubled times, be worth about twice what we will owe once the loan begins. Presuming we pay it off on-time or early, we should do pretty well. The savings on energy and a bunch of other stuff should also make my month-to-month payments hold pretty steady despite having a much larger place (I'm hoping for double the size we currently have).

Steve

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 10-08-2009, 09:44 PM:

Seller had someone go out to make a 'bid' on the roof today, not sure what came of it. Hope to hear about it on Friday.

Joshua, LOVE the bathroom color scheme, I may have to steal that [Smile]

Steve: Do you plan on renting a place if/when you bulldoze your house and rebuild? Do you still have to pay a mortgage when you bulldoze, or just the property taxes?

My mortage with property taxes + insurance is going to be $100 less than the tiny house I'm renting now. The house I'm buying is 1300sq feet, which is about 3x the one I'm at now. I'm planning putting A LOT of sweat equity into the place over the next few years. Plus I'm a mid-century nerd so I'm hoping the second-hand store gods will be good to me and give me some cheap furniture. [Smile]

The road it's on is full of older couples. I had no 'comps' to compare with because no one moves out of this area!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-09-2009, 06:52 AM:

Yeah, we plan on renting a place...there always homes to rent in our neighborhood (Annapolis has many Navy types that come and go). What better renters than those that are in the neighborhood with a known length of stay (give or take a couple of months). When the bulldozing begins, we will own our property outright so yes, just the cost of the taxes...government stuff...plus, I'm sure the new loan for the new house.

Steve

Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 10-09-2009, 08:30 AM:

The color schemes in our house are all my wife's ideas. We initially agreed that she could do what she wanted with the house and I got the basement and the garage. Well now half of the basement is my kid's stuff and 1/4 of it is laundry stuff. My wife parks in our two car garage (my truck is too big to park inside) so I get the other half of the garage. Now my kid's stuff takes up 3/4 of that space so I am left with about 1/4 of the basement and 1/4 of the garage. I think there may be a conspiracy to slowly shove me out.... [uhoh]

I wasn't crazy about the colors she picked for the bathroom or the dining room at first but it grew on me. It was hard painting lines around a room that is not level or square when I did the bathroom. The lines also pass by things like the mirror and shower surrounds that are level so I had to make the lines look parallel with those things and at the same time look parallel with the ceiling that wasn't level. If one or the other would have been off it would have been painfully obvious. Sorry, that's my OCD coming out again. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-09-2009, 12:34 PM:

Our house was previously occupied by one of those "do-it-yourself" guys. The furnace (forced-air gas) was always a little loud-ish, but we didn't think a whole lot of it because the furnace was only a few years old.

Eventually it started getting even louder and would "overload" (shut itself down) maybe once a winter. We get frequent brief power outages around here so we didn't think too much of that either, but finally it got bad enough that we called in the repair guy.

He told us that the furnace was way TOO BIG for the house and it was overloading just trying to push all that air through the ducts. He said if the protection circuitry ever failed, we could have a fire.

I was thinking, OK, this guy just might want to sell us a new furnace, so I called in another guy for a 2nd opinion. He said the same thing -- said the previous home owner probably was at a "Home Depot" buying a furnace, and the salesman said "For only $500 more you can get TWICE the BTU's!" or something like that, so he wound up buying more than the house needed.

He said there were two options: Replace all the ductwork in the house with larger ducts, which of course was impossible without tearing out the walls; or vent some of the heat OUTSIDE the house to reduce the "load" on the furnace. But, that would only solve the overload problem; the noise was just because the blower unit was too damn big, and we'd also be paying for heating up the outside.

We opted to cut our losses and buy a new furnace.

Later on, we were having new cabinets installed in the kitchen. The installer told us that the previous cabinets (yes, installed by our "do-it-yourself" previous owner) were attached so poorly that it was amazing they hadn't fallen off the walls.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 10-09-2009, 01:05 PM:

Restricting outlet volume actually reduces the load on a centrifugal air handler. The extra pressure might make ductwork noiser though. The pressure would actually be less than half an inch. An acquaintance once connected an organ blower capable of 10 inches of wind to his home HVAC system and promptly pushed some connections apart.

Anybody got a pleasant story to relate on home ownership or purchase?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-09-2009, 01:13 PM:

(I agree, I love that door as well... [Big Grin]

I'd do gold trim around the windows and paint it antique green..)

Yep, when we got our home, the next year a new furnace had to go in due to the old furnace's plenum from all the heat, suddenly shattered. Then had to run a new drain line from kitchen, new water line from the alley (luckilly, the sewer line was replaced two years before..)

..just something when you get an older home..

We bought our home - a 1942 frame house - in 1989,two years after we were married,for $1000 down. Took only 45 min to do the paper work since our credit history was real clean, we both had a good income coming in. Even the title people where we did all the closing told us that this was one of the rare occasions that a transaction like this went so smoothly.
-Monte

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 10-09-2009, 07:52 PM:

quote: Bill Enos
Anybody got a pleasant story to relate on home ownership or purchase?

I'm having good luck so far. I purchased this house back in May. Over the summer I have been slowly redoing the whole thing.

Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 10-12-2009, 09:19 AM:

Nice job John!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-12-2009, 11:32 AM:

Nice job? No stove before, no stove after!

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 10-12-2009, 09:10 PM:

The stove is in now. The appliances are white I wish I would have went with stainless, but the price was right so white won the battle.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-16-2009, 02:21 AM:

Nice work. Is that real or virtual staging? [Wink]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-16-2009, 03:29 AM:

I never really understood the point of "island" counters in kitchens. People these days seem to need a shit-ton of countertop space. Why? Stop eating so much you fat asses! I mean god damn! Another thing I do not like is high ceilings with open spaces in homes. Most new homes have an extremely high ceiling at the front door, many homes extend this somewhat in order to feel more "spacious". I hate that. I see it as space that I could have utilized if there were a room or something useful there instead of air. They are also echo chambers. I guess homes these days cater to the super-claustrophobic. I think claustrophobic people should be homeless. That way they never have to worry about their phobia since they are always outside in the gutter.

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 10-16-2009, 04:46 AM:

The crap in the pics is 100% real staging. As for the island, I was just following trend in hopes of selling this thing in 3-5 years.

Posted by Joshua Waaland (Member # 287) on 10-16-2009, 12:54 PM:

Joe never disappoints with his posts. [Razz]

A kitchen is the single most expensive room to remodel in a house. Kitchens have become more of a gathering area in a lot of homes and are therefore getting bigger and having more emphasis placed on them. Even after remodeling ours, when my wife bakes cookies at Christmas for our families, she quickly runs out of counter space for the cooling racks and cookie sheets.

I definitely agree with you on the extremely high ceilings in most new home entrances. My sister-in-law has one and it just seems like a heat hog since all the heat rises. It's also a waste of space in that they could have had an extra room on the second floor. They also have to have special ladders to change the light bulbs in the chandelier and the dust on that thing is out of control because it is out of reach.

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 10-16-2009, 07:34 PM:

Before and after of my kitchen [Smile]

This pic was before it was done done. The completed version features two 20amp GFI's and valence lighting. Before hand the receptacles on the countertop were tied to the fridge, hood and master bedroom receptacles... all being fed by a nice knob and tube setup. I did the electrical, insulating, dry-walling and painting. We contracted out the cupboards, flooring and plumbing.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-16-2009, 09:47 PM:

I dunno...the old one had a "High-Fidelity" system.

Steve

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-16-2009, 10:15 PM:

The old one was also pink. Phil will be disappointed.

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 10-16-2009, 10:48 PM:

Jarret,
Is that a mirror in the 'old' kitchen, or an open area to look into the other room?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-17-2009, 07:12 AM:

I'm going with a mirror...you can see the ceiling fan in it and what appears to be the same wall paper.

I'd also like to point out that the old kitchen sink seemed to be more functional than the new one. Unless, that is, you are really going for the retro look of having to pump the water from a well and then bring it to the sink/stove with buckets.

On the serious side...the kitchen sink is about the only thing that I have personally upgraded in our house without the aid of others. I've put in an waste disposal plus ran the power for it (did it all legal like with an GFI circuit and everything...plus snaked the power/switch in the wall). I have also installed the faucet itself with a filter system (we are on well water and I do not like the taste of straight well water). And after about 7-years of service...I have had to repair said faucet (the manifold inside that diverts the water between filter and faucet cracked and was leaking). And without a doubt..I STILL HATE PLUMBING despite having to do that more than anything in this house.

Steve

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 10-17-2009, 11:40 AM:

It was a mirror. The back door swings into the cabinets so we decided on a pantry over a small counter space. That area where the high fidelity stereo was only went back about 14", you couldn't really use that space anyways. We decided to put the sink to one side so that you'd have more space in one spot. That's the only counter space in the kitchen. Old houses sure are wonderful... Phil would be happy to know that I inquired to have the pink colour matched for the new cabinets, but it wasn't an option.
on the opposite wall is where our fridge and stove are, with a doorway on either side. No room for a dishwasher [Frown]

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 10-17-2009, 03:37 PM:

Jarret,
This is the first time in 31 years I will have a dishwasher. And I have no clue how to use it [Eek!]

I think I'll probably stick with hand washing everything for a while (oh the agony! [Razz]

)

Also, there is a built-in microwave in my kitchen. I've been living without one for 2 years and have never been happier. The microwave may find it's way out in the dumpster soon....

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 10-17-2009, 07:22 PM:

I installed a microwave above my stove, had to put a receptacle in the cupboard above it (was I ever happy to see I measure that location properly during rough-in).

The last apartment we lived in had a counter top dishwasher. It was really handy. I wouldn't want it if you had a family, but it worked well for the two of us.

I couldn't imagine not having the microwave... really instant coffee and tea, reheating leftovers, popcorn (I'm sure lots of people on here have popcorn machines in their homes)...

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-17-2009, 08:13 PM:

Since this has turned into a kitchen-remodeling thread, here are before, during and after pics from our house in 2006. I can't take the credit for any of this - my wife designed it and our friend Tom (contractor extraordinaire) did the work.

And Joe will be happy to know that not only do we NOT have an island, but we actually have less counter space. (We do have "pantry" space now though.)

The remodel had already begun (painting in another part of the house) hence the paint cans and junk all over the countertop in this first pic.

We took out an ugly flourescent fixture and put in can lights in the ceiling.

The only things left from "before" are the appliances!

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 10-17-2009, 08:28 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
The old one was also pink. Phil will be disappointed.

Hmmmm...dunno Brad, the ONLY thing pink I have and own up to is the color of my text posts in the Chat Room...it's MY color!

Also, one of the movers to your new house emailed me the below pic. He said your undie drawers fell out of your dresser drawer when they unloaded the moving truck. He said there were MANY more of the same thing...some referring to Jarret. YIKES! [Wink]

(I elected not to post the pics of the ones with "I (heart) Jarret" embroidered on them.) [Eek!]

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 10-17-2009, 08:46 PM:

ya put one red sock in the washing machine with your whites..... i tell ya...

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 10-17-2009, 09:08 PM:

after i turned Beth's socks and undies pink with my red shirts, I've been banned from doing laundry. I think this is a good thing [Smile]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-17-2009, 09:32 PM:

Don't give the secret away, dummy!

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 10-18-2009, 03:45 AM:

quote: Jarret Chessell
ya put one red sock in the washing machine with your whites..... i tell ya...

That's his story...and he's sticking to it.