Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: How much do you save building your own PC?

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Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 10-22-2009, 09:44 PM:

I am looking into getting a new PC desktop with a new monitor as well. Costco has some pretty good all in one units middle of the road units available now with Windows 7 installed. These look great because I want something strong enough to handle blu ray, but I don't intend to play games on it. I'm just curious if I would save more than say, $200, if I bought everything separate and built it myself? Anyone done this before?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-22-2009, 09:51 PM:

You save nothing. The only real point to building your own is to use better-quality parts than are typically found in commodity PC hardware. A homebuilt system is generally more expensive, actually, than a commerically available model.

If price is an issue, go with the prebuilt systems.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-22-2009, 10:22 PM:

Another thing to consider is compatibility of all the components. This is a major mine field when it comes to building a PC. There is so much stuff out there that unpredictably won't play nice with other things. If you have a lot of spare time to fiddle around with that, then it may be worth it to build your own no-compromise PC. Some people really enjoy doing that. Most do not. My recommendation to those in the 2nd group (which includes me) is to just buy a Dell, or if you're in the mood to "switch" buy a Mac.

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 10-22-2009, 10:42 PM:

I was thinking if the savings would be around $200 or so, it'd be worth doing myself, but I think going with a prebuilt system is best considering the time involved. Thanks!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-22-2009, 10:48 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Another thing to consider is compatibility of all the components. This is a major mine field when it comes to building a PC.

I disagree, this is nonsense. It used to be somewhat of a problem but it's not really any more. Having built several hundred puters over the years I can certainly say I've never had compatability problems especially of lately. Occasionally you will have to load drivers seperately but even thats been greatly simplified and is mostly automatic. Motherboards and video cards all seem to be more universal than ever before and other then a video card there isn't much you need to add onto a computer because most of the stuff is already integrated into most motherboards. There is even tons of hardware already compatable with W-7. I say build but shop wisely. Read Tom's Hardware or similar sites for what's best out there. Prebuilt systems usually offer a very limited upgrade range and many times have integrated video on the motherboard. Sure, you can disable it in some cases and add a better video card but then you should have just built your own puter to begin with. Iuf you were spending $500 on a pre-built puter or $500 on just parts you'd be way ahead with the $500 in parts. Plus there are some really cool cases and other options you can add in that are not available with pre-builts.

Mark

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-22-2009, 10:55 PM:

quote:
I disagree, this is nonsense. It used to be somewhat of a problem but it's not really any more. Having built several hundred puters I can certainly say I've never had compatability problems especially of lately.

You must be blessed from up high or something because I still see serious issues occurring with kit built PCs. I personally know highly skilled IT people who work in defense contracting companies who run into this crap despite their expertise.

Varying speeds and types of memory can cause problems. Video card drivers still cause problems despite everything boiling down to some flavor of ATI or nVidia chip (because many vendors are writing their own drivers, and sometimes doing a bad job at it). Not everything works with everything else. I even see compatibility warnings when selecting certain components to configure a garden-variety Dell.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-22-2009, 11:00 PM:

Bobby,

I must be blessed because I haven't had a single problem in well over 100 computers built. I can't answer for your friends in the defense industry or what they are building or building it for but had they checked into what they bought they wouldn't be having any problems. The last puter I assembled and had any problems with was an AMD based unit right after I moved to SLC... now that was 12 years ago. The CPU was defective and replaced and that computer is still in use today. Every puter in my home with the exception of my two Dell 2850's were assembled by myself and with the exception of fans going bad have given zero problems. What more can I say... I've had great luck and would be very happy to assist Mike in assembling his.

Mark

Posted by Wayne Keyser (Member # 2420) on 10-22-2009, 11:02 PM:

"You save nothing. The only real point to building your own is to use better-quality parts than are typically found in commodity PC hardware." - Scott Norwood

Let me add: what he said, absolutely, plus you get to have the parts of your choice (instead of what the manufacturer chooses) in the configuration you prefer. Maybe you don't want to pay for part X, but you can't get part Y without it if you shop for a packaged system.

More than that ... I dunno if they do this anymore, but back in Windows 98 days when it was time to replace or upgrade a part of my major-store-brand computer, I opened it up only to find the components hot-glued in place! Insulting as well as annoying.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-22-2009, 11:04 PM:

Wayne,

The average Joe should definitely buy a factory built computer... however someone looking for a high speed gaming computer or high performance computer for other uses should build their own. Its the only way to get what you want and with much higher performance for the buck.

Mark

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-22-2009, 11:21 PM:

I've never had any issues with building my own PC, though I've only done 2 or so. The biggest issue I had on the first one was trying to get the CA Link card to work and run the projectors in the building. But that was because the CA Link card used an ancient protocol from the year 1297.

If I were to get a new PC today, I'd definitely build it. I would want certain dedicated cards that don't come with the Dell stuff and I like installing the OS myself.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-22-2009, 11:34 PM:

Outside of monetary value and savings is the plain joy and knowledge that you put something together and know exactly what you got inside and what you can work with afterwards.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 10-23-2009, 12:08 AM:

Let's see:

Two years ago I built my personal computer and spent about $200 or $300 (total!). This same computer runs great to this day and I haven't had a single problem with it. It does everything I need it to and runs like a champ.

I have repaired about 30 or 40 computers for other people. These machines are sometimes newer and definately more expensive than the one I built (one machine I worked on retailed for $1600). Problems galore with these machines. As I had said somewhere in another post - the components in these machines were cheap off-brand hardware. While most of the problems I fixed were user caused problems - I still couldn't get over the amount of money they paid for machines that they were basically surfing the Internet and playing games on.

I hand picked all the components that I put in my machine, the motherboard, the CPU, the RAM, the video card, and everything else. I built it from scratch.

Hmm. Did I answer the question? [Razz]

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 10-23-2009, 12:35 AM:

Dennis did that price include a monitor and software as well, or just the computer?

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 10-23-2009, 07:31 AM:

I've bought and I've also built.

In my opinion the better value is to buy a factory built machine. The downside is that in addition to the OS and compatible hardware you'll also get a lot of preloaded crap that you will have to filter through and delete or hide. Another factor is factory built machines tend to have custom cases that often do not have the hardware in place to allow expansion components like an additional hard drive or media reader.

Overall, if you are looking at best cost, you'll probably save money by buying a factory built unit. By the time you factor in the hardware and software costs of a do it yourself machine I don't think you'd save any money.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-23-2009, 09:24 AM:

Yea, Joe made a good point! Installing the OS yourself. Perhaps you don't want Vista or W7 on your puter yet and still want something reliable like good ole XP Pro. On many factory built computers, especially laptops if you format the drive and install your own OS you've also voided the warranty.

When it comes to memory, just get high quality beand name memory. All of todays motherboards can automatically sense what type of memory you've plugged into the sockets and then they adjust to it automatically.

Mark

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 10-23-2009, 10:47 AM:

I've built three out of six of mine over the years (and a fourth for my uncle) out of barebones kits (the tower, power supply, and processor are already there, you add the rest).

The last two I purchased complete because there was no real cost savings at the time and I didn't feel I'd need to do any major upgrades to either of them, aside from maximizing memory.

I'm planning to get a new system together after the new year, and at this point I'm leaning towards building this one due to the processing and configuration I want (Blu-ray burning, maybe an HD tuner...)

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 10-23-2009, 10:55 AM:

There are 17 operating computers on my property. All were built at a local computer store that I've patronized since 1994. Except for one bad CPU and a couple of defective power supplies, I've had reliable service from all of them.

However, I can't say that I couldn't get the same results from an off-the-shelf Dell today. As I was buying most of these, I didn't have much trust for the major assemblers.

Oh... one major deviation... I did buy a couple of E-Machines once. Terrible mistake.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-23-2009, 11:22 AM:

Over the years I've probably been responsible for about 20 computers, most of them Dells. (One Gateway.) I would say the biggest difference between "bought" and "built" is time. If you have the time to invest in acquiring the knowledge you need, then by all means build...you'll probably get just as good or better machine at less cost. If you don't have the time, then go with factory-made.

I wish it was possible to get a factory machine with nothing pre-installed on it, and have Windows (or whatever) just come in the box. The first thing I do with a factory computer is delete about half the crap that comes on it.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-23-2009, 12:54 PM:

You can buy Windows-based machines without all the "crapware" installed on them, but you have to order them through the "business" unit of the manufacturer. For instance, Dell's Precision Workstation and Vostro lines don't come with all the crapware. Same goes for HP and its workstation line. However you pay significantly more money. That crapware found on most consumer PC machines helps subsidize the low price. This is another reason why Apple computers are more expensive than their PC counterparts. Apple isn't taking in a bunch of what amounts to advertising money from third party vendors.

Posted by Joe Tommassello (Member # 4632) on 10-23-2009, 01:42 PM:

Anyone who calls them "puters" loses all credibility.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 10-23-2009, 02:35 PM:

That's par for the source, Joe. [Wink]

It happened long ago.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-23-2009, 06:37 PM:

quote: Joe Tommassello
Anyone who calls them "puters" loses all credibility.

Thats what the guys at the missle launch site north of here call em!!

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 10-23-2009, 07:02 PM:

quote: Wayne Keyser
More than that ... I dunno if they do this anymore, but back in Windows 98 days when it was time to replace or upgrade a part of my major-store-brand computer, I opened it up only to find the components hot-glued in place! Insulting as well as annoying.

They do this for warranty reasons. If you send it back and the glue is broken, they know you were screwing with it, warranty void! I've even seen lock-tight used. I don't blame them either.

I just started buying Mac computers, sexy out of the box. I have one PC, socket A 2GHz with 1 gig of dual channel memory. I have an OEM copy of XP, and it does everything I want that my mac's can't.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-23-2009, 08:55 PM:

quote: Jarret Chessell
Mac computers, sexy out of the box.

Is Apple's packaging for computers as elegant-looking as their iPod packaging? I bought a little power supply cord for my iPod and it was the nicest looking little thing I ever saw. Too bad it was nearly impossible to get into without a huge knife, but you can't have everything.

Posted by Mike Heenan (Member # 392) on 10-24-2009, 01:31 AM:

It is the same for it's laptops as it is for the Ipod Touch and Iphone. I don't recall the packaging for the desktops though.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 10-24-2009, 05:22 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Another thing to consider is compatibility of all the components.

On the other side of the coin, you should consider how compatible those components are with components not used by your manufacturer. By that I mean that a lot of times, manufacturers will use non-standard, proprietary parts.

For instance, my mom and dad's old Dell computer had it's CPU fan die. We pulled it off, figured out what socket the thing used, ordered a nice one off some website, then when we got it found that the fan's power connector didn't fit into Dell's non-standard connector. Granted, it wasn't at all hard to cut the wire and use a thing to connect the wires for the new fan to that old thing, but it's just stupid that we needed to do it.

On the other hand, Dell has stopped doing this apparently. Still, similar stuff still happens.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-24-2009, 10:17 PM:

Am I really reading this? Do you people use the packaging or the contents of the box???

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 10-24-2009, 10:44 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
Am I really reading this? Do you people use the packaging or the contents of the box???

True, but in the case of my Apple products, it's nice to see where at least some of my money is going.. [Cool]

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 10-24-2009, 11:03 PM:

I spoon with my iMac box

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-25-2009, 12:06 PM:

Actually I find some of the packaging that motherboards and video cards come in to be just as sexy and clever as Apple's. However if you purchase an item just for it's sexy and clever packaging you have a more serous problem going on upatairs! Packaging like this is all marketing hype and with most really good products you'll find out there they already have a following and require nothing more than a mere non-descript plain ole double thickness cardboard box or bubble pack hangger.

Mark

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 10-25-2009, 12:48 PM:

Anti-static bags are for newbs

Posted by Paul J. Neuhaus (Member # 3205) on 10-28-2009, 04:20 PM:

First I agree with you probably don't save any money. Now, what is your time worth? If you have all the time to put up with wading through all the bloatware crap that comes on a storebrand pc then good on ya you save some cash. If you have an idea of what you want your pc to do. What software you want to run and you can get actual windows installation disks with your pc not just restore cd's. Then you can take the bargain for the hardware and just wipe it and do a fresh install.
Point is if you know exactly what you want buy that and put it together. Bare bones kits are so easy. Some you just drop a cpu, ram, and a hard drive. If your not playing games there is nothing wrong with integrated graphics( just remember that whenever you deal with integrated graphics it is total ram - dedicated graphics = ram leftover for the OS )

I heard the problem with drivers being brought up and the defense department.
First of all there have been allot of driver issues for nvidea graphics cards when it comes to laptops. The nvidea pushed the responibility on the laptop vendors for making and upgraded drivers for their video cards for vista... specificaly the GO series cards... This didn't work so well.. but here we are talking about a tower. Should not be an issue.
Next as far as the defense dept. and any company for that matter.. any time that you roll out a large number of computers for your domain you like to get as much of the same hardware as possible. This isn't just for compatability because most everything talks over tcp/ip or udp anyway. It is mainly because when you run updates for drivers or service packs or security patches a solution for one machine may bring another one down because of port sharing IRQ settings...etc. One mans pill is another mans poison. So, you like to alleviate that from the start as best you can.
Ok, I know that was long winded but I truly believe the only way to get exactly what you want is to build it. If you don't mind wading through the crap go for the bundle deal.