Yes but E.T. was
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quote: Pravin RatnamRemember, the reason to watch the Academy Awards is Bad Dresses, Bad Speeches and Bad Production Numbers. The worser the songs, the higher the probability of a really stinking production number (also, alas, the greater possibility of Celine Dion showing up)
Best song: It delivered on finding the worst nominees as per Oscar habit.
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quote: Joe TommasselloFirst off, the "real" ones are in fact all ten that were nominated ... for example, the animated feature section switches back & forth between 3 & 5, it doesn't mean each year one should only pay attention to 3 of them ... they expanded it to 10 this year, big deal. BUT for argument's sake: Avatar, Hurt Locker, Inglourious, Precious, Up in the Air would be the five I'd assume. Blind Side - very doubtful in a 5 nominee year.
Anyone want to venture an opinion which five of the ten Best Picture nominees are the REAL nominees and which ones are there to try to create interest in the show and get the rating up?
I am thinking that these four would have made the cut to five:
Avatar
Blind Side
Hurt Locker
Up in the Air
quote: Mike BlakesleyI guess for posterity's sake I'll point out that it's only the second time ever for an animated film to be nominated for best picture (after 1991's Beauty and the Beast, but of course B&B did it before the existence of the feature animation category, too).
Well I'm glad to see "Up" get into the expanded Best Picture category at least.
quote: Joe TommasselloIf you want to know which films would have been nominated in a 5 picture race, just look at the Director category. Normally the Director category is the same 5 films as the Best Picture category - or at least 4 of 5 are the same.
Anyone want to venture an opinion which five of the ten Best Picture nominees are the REAL nominees
quote: Jeremy JorgensonIsn't that the main qualification in the editing category? The Academy loves "invisible" editing.
I'm kind of curious how Joe Klotz is up for editing for Precious ... I'm fine with the other four nominees, but I don't remember the editing in Precious being anything particularly worthy of note.
quote: Martin McCafferyYeah, but it's all the more impressive when the editing is invisible with a more complex __________ (insert something here: timeline, plotline, grouping of locations, collection of sfx, state of mind of the character(s) ... blahblahblah). Sure, I know Precious had some fantasies in her head which were shown on screen, but to me it wasn't the editing that made or broke those scenes. Nothing against it [the editing], because it certainly works & does its job, but IMHO there were quite a few "richer" choices in editing from 2009 than Precious.
"invisible" editing
quote: Scott NorwoodI don't think The Hurt Locker deserves it. The movie is marketed as an authentic portrayal of Army EOD troops in Iraq, but the movie fails in numerous areas to maintain authenticity. In certain respects the production was limited by its budget to do some scenes properly. But there were other scenes in the show that were pure Hollywood horse shit.
I'll be griping if Hurt Locker does not win Best Picture.
he had to work with.
quote: Greg AndersonTwo of the biggest travesties in Academy history in my opinion...
Anyone remember (off the top of your head) which movie won Best Picture in the year that Raiders of the Lost Ark was released? How about the year E.T. was out?
quote: Greg AndersonYes but E.T. was
How about the year E.T.
quote: Justin HamakerGetting the details right regarding what characters do in their jobs, be they soldiers, cops, etc., is part of what makes the experience more authentic and real.
Bobby, when I watch a movie like The Hurt Locker, I'm less concerned with every detail being right. What I want is a movie that does the job of making me feel like I'm there; like I know what the characters are going through.
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quote: Jonathan WorthingMore untrue words were never said.
Yes but E.T. was
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quote: John WilsonYes, but I miss irony most
More untrue words were never said.
quote: Galen Murphy-FahlgrenMy biggest gripe with The Hurt Locker is its inclusion of that very implausible sniper sequence with the British contractors. It seems like any movie about modern war has to have a sniper sequence in it. The only thing missing was a bad guy catching a bullet through his rifle scope. Here's a number of points that are wrong with that sequence:
Bobby, I finally got around to watching The Hurt Locker, and I was curious what specific points you took issue with. I have a number of points in mind that I thought were inaccurate in regards to tactics and SOP, as well as a technical point or two, and I was curious as to what had gotten to you.
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I do not mind it did win because I enjoyed the movie very much. I will be rooting for it!quote: Bobby HendersonActually, I submit that it's being marketed as a way for US to feel what it was like over there. It's a subtle difference, but it IS a difference. The goal of the movie is not to recreate the environment, but to make us non-military people understand what it feels like to be there.
Overall The Hurt Locker is being marketed as a "this is what the war is like for our troops over there" kind of thing.
quote: Claude S. AyakawaI'm saying that if one is the betting type and wishes to win their office or Oscar Party pool, then, statistically, the safe bet is to pick THE HURT LOCKER for Best Picture (and its director Kathryn Bigelow for Best Director).
Are you saying AVATAR has a chance of winning best picture, Michael?
quote:How can these films even be rated as a chance when the fifth animated film 'UP' has been nominated 'Best Picture'? It really shows just why the Best Animated Film category is useless.
Fantastic Mister Fox was a great movie, and I hope the animation Oscar goes to either that, or Coraline or The Secret of Kells, which were both equally as good.
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...never heard of it.
quote: John WilsonYou have the title wrong. There is no currently nominated movie in any category called "Precious". There is one with a similar title, however. It is called "Precious based on the novel Push by Sapphire". Maybe this is the movie you were thinking of? This movie has a lot going for it, otherwise it wouldn't be associated with so many people with just one name. Mo'nique, Sapphire, etc. I think it was directed by McG.
Best Supporting Actress - Mo’Nique in “Precious"
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quote: Mark OgdenPlease get your facts straight. This movie used blue screen, not green. Therefore the award is justified and your argument invalid.
No movie that is 99% green screen deserves a cinematography award
quote:Joe, I think you're just remembering all those blue cat people. Check me on this, but I'm sure I'm seeing green screen being used here.
quote: Mark Ogden
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No movie that is 99% green screen deserves a cinematography award
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Please get your facts straight. This movie used blue screen, not green. Therefore the award is justified and your argument invalid.
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quote: Hillary CharlesThe clip they showed during the telecast showed a blue screen. I have done no more research into the making of Avatar and that trumped up Youtube video you linked to is exactly what makes me hate DVD extras. Why are they using the soundtrack from the movie? It doesn't need music! Unfortunately all of the "making of" features these days are EXACTLY like that, music from the movie, the actors talking bout how this movie breaks new ground, everyone talking about how great the director is, the director saying how challenging everything is. BORING!
Joe, I think you're just remembering all those blue cat people. Check me on this, but I'm sure I'm seeing green screen being used here.
quote: David StambaughYes, I noticed that, too. But we are talking about broadcast television, an area where nobody knows what they are doing. They are almost as bad as modern day "projectionists".
There was definitely something going on with the audio.
quote: Greg AndersonWe opened Hurt Locker when it was initially released. Nobody came to see it. We got it back 3 additional times, the most recent being about 3 weeks ago. We are doing stellar numbers for the movie despite that we are a full-price theater and the movie has been available on video for at least 2 months and can be rented for a dollar. Even buying the damn thing is cheaper than a couple of tickets. But we keep selling it out. Even on the weekday afternoons there are 70-90 people in the auditorium. Might happen again this weekend. After that it will probably die off. We are not showing the movie on Blu-ray, we are projecting real 35mm motion picture movie film.
Simple conclusion: The war in Iraq is box office poison. That's not going to change.
quote: John WilsonWhat did this movie do? 3D? Nope, been there, done that. CG? Nope, been there, done that. The movie still looks very cartoonish and the effects still look VERY CGI-ish. The movie's graphics did not impress me in the least. The 3D was good, but that effect was enhanced because the camera was NEVER still, adding parallax to the 3D visuals. Again, nothing groundbreaking here. You may argue about all the work that went into it.... but I don't care! All I care about is what I see, and it wasn't that impressive, there was just a lot of it. Nothing anyone says can make me impressed with the fake-looking CGI in Avatar.
AVATAR should have won Best Picture purely for the achievement in advancing what the public can expect a movie can do...in so many ways.
quote: John WilsonJohn, in theory, the Academy Awards are supposed to be about quality film making as defined by those who make the movies. It is not intended to be the People's Choice Awards. If they were trying to mirror public opinion, then why weren't there multiple nominations for films like New Moon or Transformers 2.
There are more people in the line at the grocery store down the street than have paid to see The Hurt Locker.
quote: Justin HamakerTrue, but they were not nominated. AVATAR did stellar numbers, yes...but that's not what I'm talking about. Avatar has and is changing things...one movie did this, and it sure doesn't go by the title of The Hurt Locker.
John, in theory, the Academy Awards are supposed to be about quality film making as defined by those who make the movies. It is not intended to be the People's Choice Awards.
quote: Julio RobertoThis year's winner of the American Society of Cinematographers award for feature cinematography was "The White Ribbon" ("Das Weisse Band"), shot in 35mm.
I guess shooting 35mm film doesn't matter that much anymore for a film to be considered "among the best if not the best".
quote: Michael CoateLast year's winner of the American Society of Cinematographers award for feature cinematography was "Slumdog Millionaire", shot in 2K digital.
This year's winner of the American Society of Cinematographers award for feature cinematography was "The White Ribbon" ("Das Weisse Band"), shot in 35mm.
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quote: Julio RobertoTo be fair, the situation is not quite that simple. CGI can be tweaked to where everything is perfect. Unfortunately 3D animation also tends to be very time consuming. Any new visual tricks (via custom software, etc.) has to be tested. The work from dozens of different animators, colorists, digital matte painters, etc. must edit together consistently. Lots of things have to be done and redone and then redone again all before the scene can go to final render. Of course, you still have to have enough time to do final render with that pesky release date approaching.
Even the cinematrography is doubtful in a movie that is mostly CGI, but I agree it was good, just not "real cinematography". I mean you want perfect lighting? Push a buttom. Sunset? Push another. No shadow in the face of object #3? Push a button and have it ignored by the ray tracer, something impossible in real life as you can't stop light mid-air.
quote: Julio RobertoSince when has the Best Picture of the year had to win Best Picture?
I disagree. Avatar was NOT, by far, the best picture at all of the year.
quote: Greg AndersonThat was an inside joke. He sang "Danke Schoen" in the movie "Ferris Bueler."
At the end of the John Hughes tribute, 7 full seconds after Matthew Broderick has finished saying thank you (in German)
quote: Randy StankeyTechnically, he mimed while Wayne Newton sang...
He sang "Danke Schoen" in the movie "Ferris Bueler."
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quote: Bobby HendersonHaving done my share of CGI since Targa times ... I totally agree.
Computers don't necessarily make everything faster.
quote: Justin HamakerSee. It's part of the myth and marketing hype the notion that Cameron "invented" some "brand new cameras" in order to "realize his vision" when shooting Avatar.
One of the things that hasn't been discussed about Avatar's Cinematography nom/win is that Cameron had to invent and use brand new cameras to capture the live action 3D shots according to his vision.
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quote: Julio RobertoI disagree for a couple of reasons. The only thing being judged is the look of end result. If methodology is going to be judged then film should have its own category and "digital" should have another category.
While there is always a trade off between budget/time and "perfection" in both, CGI and real-life lighting and cinematography, I honestly think they need separated categories as they are not comparable.
quote: Claude S. AyakawaI personally wasn't all that impressed with Avatar's sound. I'm not saying it was bad, it just didn't impress.
to lose to THE HURT LOCKER is something I just cannot understand.
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quote: Bobby HendersonYeah, but the actually shot elements were placed & manipulated in a frame that was animated. The composition was not that of Mauro Fiore but more so of the special effects supervisors & the editors (which includes Cameron). I have no problem with manipulation of the image being part of the overall cinematography, but the DP usually has some say during the DI or whatever, or like Kaminski removing frames from the footage of Saving Private Ryan, he was still a major factor of the look that resulted. I didn't get the impression that Fiore was in this case (though I don't know & certainly could be wrong).
BTW, Avatar is not an all-CGI movie since a significant portion of it does feature human actors and even some practical sets.
quote:Well, the American Society of Cinematographers nominated but DIDN'T choose Avatar as the winner for their ASC prize, which went to "The White Ribbon". If it helps any, I'm a member of the International Society of Optical Engineering
But, the nominations for Cinematography supposedly came from the cinematographers who are members of the Academy. If they think someone deserves a nomination then that's a strong-enough reason in my book ... Are you really more qualified to judge this than a cinematographer who's a member of the Academy?
quote: Bobby HendersonSay what?!?
Color timing is practically a thing of the past thanks to digital intermediate.
quote: Mark OgdenThe reasons why DI exists is besides the point. Photo-chemical, film-based color timing is indeed practically a thing of the past. It's a rare thing for any movie to be color timed using the old school chemical methods anymore.
Color timing via digital platforms, be they DaVinci, Quantel, NuCoda, Apple Color or whatever, is probably the largest single reason for digital intermediate in the first place.
quote: Bobby HendersonBobby. Digital intermediate is a process, of which color timing is the largest part. Addition of titles and end credits is another part. Dust busting and scratch removal is another part. EDL conforming is another part. Scan out to a physical internegative is the final part. It is NOT a "totally different technique". It is ALL digital intermediate.
Digital intermediate is digital intermediate. It's not color timing. It's a totally different technique.
quote: Greg AndersonAs this came after my post, I assume you were responding to me? Um, we're just talking about our opinions of the show we watched last night, and the movies that made that show possible. I never once complained or questioned Fiore's nomination, I said it was the weakest of the five nominations. I'll add here: this is simply my opinion (I figured that was obvious). Another opinion I have: no association or academy or society or other grouping of people is 100% infallible, so I certainly won't blindly trust what they say as "automatically right" because I'm not a member, and hence can't have an opinion. Frankly that's a scary thought.
But, the nominations for Cinematography supposedly came from the cinematographers who are members of the Academy. If they think someone deserves a nomination then that's a strong-enough reason in my book. If they think the DP deserves credit more than some pixel-jockey in a cubicle using Photoshop then I trust them. Would they really want to be complicit in dismissing the real craft in their business if they thought that was happening? No offense to the members of this forum but, come on. Are you really more qualified to judge this than a cinematographer who's a member of the Academy?
quote: Jeremy JorgensonAnd to this I say... Calm down. It's only a movie.
Another opinion I have: no association or academy or society or other grouping of people is 100% infallible, so I certainly won't blindly trust what they say as "automatically right" because I'm not a member, and hence can't have an opinion. Frankly that's a scary thought.
quote: Jeremy JorgensonI actually did like that. "And the winner is" is one of the most famous phrases in TV history. I never could understand why they changed it in the first place. "And the Oscar goes to" just sounds clunky and doesn't roll off the tongue, IMHO.
I also didn't like the reversion to "...and the winner is".
quote: Julio RobertoThere...you see? You really weren't paying attention.
We were all waiting for a wardrobe malfunction on the blue alien girls but they were so good not even once we got any nipplelage,
quote: Julio RobertoWhat's with the razzie? Sure, last year the ASC and AMPAS voters selected the same film for Best Cinematography, but you're not proving anything by citing only a single example.
Last year's winner of the American Society of Cinematographers award for feature cinematography was "Slumdog Millionaire", shot in 2K digital.
AMPAS and ASC voted the same last year.
smiley instead.quote: John WilsonI must have been too awed with the magnificiency of the brand new 3D technology that I had never ever ever ever ever seen before ...
There...you see? You really weren't paying attention.
They are much appreciated.quote: Greg AndersonCool. Thanks for the tip!
Calm down.
quote:And when it's cold out...wear a sweater.
Cool. Thanks for the tip!
quote: Claude AyakawaThanks, Claude. It's good to know you appreciate my posts, especially since a few film-tech members probably resent my presence. (Hi Dave.
Michael, You are awesome with all of the informative and interesting facts you provide when you post. They are much appreciated.
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