Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Microphone cable.

This is topic Microphone cable. in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 02-04-2010, 07:07 AM:

Does anybody here have any experience with Star Quad microphone cable? Is it really as effective as claimed in noisy environments? I've seen figures of as much as 20 dB claimed improvement compared to a more conventional cable when used close to things like lighting dimmers. That seems to be a huge difference for quite a minor change in the cable. It doesn't seem to be a great deal more expensive than conventional mic cable.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-04-2010, 07:11 AM:

I have no measurements, but I use Canare L-4E6S star-quad with Neutrik XLR connectors for microphone cables and have never had any issues with noise. It also wraps easily and is quite durable. The cable generally goes for about $.50/foot here.

This combination also seems to be pretty much standard with most rental houses, although some prefer Switchcraft connectors or the Belden equivalent cable.

Neutrik does make a shielded variant of its XLR connector, which is significantly more expensive than the normal type. I have never used it.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-04-2010, 09:09 AM:

We've been using Star-Quad on mag lines for well over a decade now. Star-Quad is indeed a more noise proof cable. As Scott says, it also tends to be a bit more flexible too as it shows up as a rental/staging cable. We've use the Canare as well as Belden. It takes a little more time to work with it and the shields are typically braided but the results are undeniable.

Posted by Michael Voiland (Member # 5386) on 02-04-2010, 07:26 PM:

Look up west penn 454 it comes in a multitude of colors. Its permanent install rated so its not flexible if your looking for mic cables then belden is a good place to look.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-05-2010, 10:27 AM:

Always be careful with West Penn...their prices are good and so are some of their cables...their consistency is sorely lacking. The Belden cable, 1172A, also is available in many colors. Belden and West Penn, despite both being part of CDT...hasn't helped West Penn's quality level. It isn't that West Penn wire doesn't work...but no two rolls are the same and generally you will spend 2-4 times as much time working with it as the equivalent Belden (I've pretty well proven this to several techs). They never knew how much time was wasted fooling with West Penn's inconsistant extrusions, yarn that as seemingly no purpose other than to cling to your finger or get caught in the extrusion and crack the jacket...or the plastic this in some cables, not on others or the "Shrink back" that leaves more exposed end...etc. You don't need heat shrink with West Penn either...just pull the jacket a little, it will cover the ragged end [Wink]

Steve

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 02-06-2010, 04:17 AM:

Neutrik seems to have pretty much a monopoly on XLRs these days; are the original Cannon/ITT ones still made? The Switchcraft ones became quite popular here for a few years about 20 years ago, but again you seldom seem to see new ones now.

I've just discovered that Neutric have now dropped the X-series for the new XX-series (I wonder if they'll make an XXX-series for porn film makers?). The XX are quite nice, and not expensive, but the colour coding boots and rings are both completely different to those for the X-series, and I don't have any yet.

I wonder what will happen to the digital XCC-series, since these are derived from the now discontinued X-series?

Belden seems to be the most common installation cables here, and are also quite widely used for stage cables. The last microphone cable I bought was Van Damme, and I have been very happy with it, so I will probably stay with it. They also seem to be getting more into the field of installation cables now.

This is what I have used in the past:

web page

And I am thinking of going to this:

web page

This is not where I buy my cable from, and I get it a bit cheaper than this. It's not the cheapest, but it's good, and for the small quantities that I use the cost isn't too bad. Almost everything is significantly more expensive here than it is over there.

quote: Steve Guttag
Always be careful with West Penn...their prices are good and so are some of their cables...their consistency is sorely lacking.

They also have a terrible website. I'd never heard of them before.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-06-2010, 06:55 AM:

To extend this a bit. . . .

I use Belden 8412 (old school) for the mike to wall outlet. Very tough, you could tow a truck with it. Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-06-2010, 10:27 AM:

Don't get me wrong...there are some good West Penn cables and all of them will work...they just take longer to work with and you might get inconsistencies throughout the roll (no kidding, when we used to work with WPW 291...I'd have to have different heat shrink sizes depending on the reel! It was also a mystery as to what was in the cable depending on how they were making it that day..some had the yarn, some didn't some had the plastic wrap...etc.

Belden has the legacy that, like Louis, you will find those that have their favorite cable models if, for no other reason, that is what they have always used and it has never failed them.

I also like Mogomi and Canare

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 02-06-2010, 12:26 PM:

I find that this company usually has good prices: Markertek . (I do not get a kick-back for doing this)

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 02-06-2010, 12:39 PM:

They are over here as well, only about 10 km from where I am, and they are dealers for some equipment that I'm interested in; I'll have to speak to them sometime.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 02-06-2010, 12:55 PM:

Yep, Markertek has great deals and good service.

I have to add to the cable discussion, do yourself a favor: stick to Belden, Canare or Mogami..DO NOT EVER buy the made in China knockoff brands!! Any money you might have saved in cable WILL be eaten up in waste and extra labor time for terminations.

A former person I contracted with bought the Chinese crap on a major install, saved about $200 in wire costs and forced over $1,000 in extra labor costs and delays because the crap would never strip , and one box of 500 feet had a break in it. (Jacket was intact but the conductors were overlapped inside the jacket, not even spliced. Obviously one roll of conductors ended and they simply had lain the next roll on top.)

One of the many reasons I will no longer work with that person.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-06-2010, 01:51 PM:

I often use Gepco cable
http://www.gepco.com/products/proav_cable/analog_audio/mic_quadstar_M.htm

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 02-06-2010, 04:39 PM:

Canare L-4E6S with Neutrik XLRS is what I use on film sets. It takes a beatings, sounds good, and most importantly wraps well.

Mogami is a good make as well, although the jacket is prone to getting damaged if used in high traffic areas.

I've also had good experiences with Gotham and Gepco.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-13-2010, 10:16 AM:

I decided to go with the star quad for the mic cables. The core colours are blue and white; is there any standard as to which goes to pin 2 and which to pin 3 or can I do either; as long as I do the same at both ends, obviously.

It's nice cable, and not much more expensive than decent quality normal mic cable.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 04-13-2010, 11:40 AM:

one install I was involved in decided to use a very thick rubber cable with 18 smaller insulated wires inside ranging from 10awg to 22awg for the speaker runs to the screen. While maybe a good idea in theory it was terrible to work with. Stripping the very thick and hard rubber off took forever and in order to have enough length of individual wires to hit the various speakers in different positions you had to strip it back like ten plus feet! We ended up having to bring in an extra trainee type person just to strip this cable in all 18 houses! [Eek!]

And as I posted in another thread we also had an owner once who insisted on having the electricians run this stiff solid single conductor copper wire for everything including cell lines, speakers, etc... This stuff was terrible to work with also very hard to bend and terminate. Any savings he got out of using this stuff were negated by the extra time it took to work with it.

I guess the moral of the story is for owners to consult your theatre techs not just electricians about what kind of wire they are going to run. Using the wrong kind can add a huge cost to your install. It is pennywise and pound foolish to try to save money on wire/cable because you will pay dearly in the end by having to use extra labor time or even having to pull out and re-run everything!