Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Super 8mm is back

This is topic Super 8mm is back in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=006134

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-24-2010, 01:51 PM:

Link

quote:
KODAK Introduces New Super 8 Motion Picture Film; Advancements in Film Technology Foster a Renaissance for the Small Gauge

ROCHESTER, NEW YORK, April 6, 2010 - KODAK has introduced a new Color Reversal Film available in the Super 8 mm format today. KODAK Ektachrome 100D Color Reversal Film is a daylight-balanced 100-speed film, incorporating bright saturated colors and fine grain with excellent sharpness.

S8_100D.jpg"Super 8 mm film is a versatile, affordable option for filmmakers who require the image quality and flexibility of film," says Chris Johnson, product manager, Entertainment Imaging Division, Eastman Kodak Company. "Quantum leaps in film emulsion technology have made Super 8 - once considered a hobbyist's format - a viable option for professional filmmakers and students."

Many of today's great cinematographers and directors began their careers at the counter of their local photo shop, buying a cartridge of Super 8 film, according to Johnson. But KODAK Ektachrome 100D Color Reversal Film offers filmmakers image quality far beyond that of the familiar home movie format of the 1960s, he says.

"Kodak's commitment to R&D continues to raise the bar for image quality," says Johnson. "One benefit is that Super 8 is now a terrific option for students who want to hone their skills, as well as for professional filmmakers who want to craft a distinctive look for their project."

According to Johnson, the Super 8 film format is supported by a network of dedicated laboratories that process and digitize the output. One of the leading labs in the United States supporting the Super 8 format is Pro8MM, located in Burbank, California.

"Our customers have been clamoring for Kodak to offer the 100D product in the Super 8 format," states Phil Vigeant, president of Pro8MM and author of the book, The Power of Super 8. "The results our customers can produce with a Super 8 camera and a 50-foot cartridge of Super 8 film scanned to HD are amazing."

One of the leading facilities in Europe supporting the Super 8 format is Wittner-Cinetec. "The increased saturation of the 100D film makes colors just pop," says company President Daniel Wittner. "We are glad to see Kodak continuing to support this important format."

"We are excited and happy to demonstrate Kodak's continued commitment to film technology, and we look forward to further announcements this year," says Johnson.

About Kodak's Entertainment Imaging
Kodak's Entertainment Imaging Division is the world-class leader in providing film, digital and hybrid motion imaging products, services, and technology for the television, feature film, commercial, music video, documentary and exhibition industries. For more information on KODAK VISION3 film, visit www.kodak.com/go/motion, with links to ongoing podcasts and blogs on products and services from Kodak.

Follow Kodak on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/KodakMotionPictureFilm

About Wittner Cinetec
Wittner Cinetec offers all kind of accessories for the dedicated Super 8 filmmaker and enthusiast. Filmstock and processing service, splicers, filmreels/cans, film cleaners, projection bulbs. More than 2500 products for taking, editing and projecting of small format movies. The wide range of products includes specialties like Kodak Double 8 and Double Super 8 film stock as well as newly produced accessories and spare parts for Beaulieu cameras and projectors.

About Pro8mm
Pro8mm is a one-stop venue for the use of Super 8 Film, offering: tech support for cameras, custom modifications, including Max 8 and crystal sync; film processing for all Kodak Super 8 filmstocks; scanning to digital in native 1080 HD. For over 40 years Pro8mm, formally Super 8 Sound, has pioneered the use of Super 8 film.

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 04-24-2010, 03:35 PM:

Apparently Kodak was 5 days late with their announcement. [Smile]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-24-2010, 04:06 PM:

Definitely gonna follow Kodak on Facebook.

The image quality of film is good, but if it is only daylight balanced and requires a separate device altogether just to record any audio, then it sure as hell cannot be deemed "flexible". I've seen movies shot on 16mm that look worse than those shot in consumer HD. "Please Give" is a good example of how bad 16mm can look. It looks, at best, like consumer HDV at 720p (which is actually anamorphic, not using the full 720p resolution).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-24-2010, 05:41 PM:

Why would they bother when you can buy an HD Flip thingy and produce far better images?

Mark

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 04-24-2010, 11:20 PM:

Kodak also supply some neg stocks on super 8 I think a vision 200 and 500. Pro 8mm supply additional neg stocks from Fuji and the rest of Kodak professional range that they themselves cut and load into the super 8 cartridges.
Pro 8 will also pimp your camera with widescreen conversions of the gate and view finders.

more info
pro8mm
super 8 reversal and neg stocks

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 04-24-2010, 11:48 PM:

I agree with Mark...Why bother?

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-25-2010, 11:53 AM:

Try and find a projector. I have a bunch of old s8 reels I want to screen to choose which to transfer to video for my family. My old projector had a blown lamp and gooped rubber drive belts.
I borrowed someone else's and that lamp blew after about 10 minutes, I can get a replacement for around $100.00 online.
I tried the pawnshops, no s8 there. I asked about it - a few years ago they had lots - the staff guy said they had binned them all at least two years ago and didn't accept any more, nobody ever wanted them.
As far as I know there is no current production of any s8 cameras or projectors.
You can get used ones on ebay with the usual doubts and aspersions. There are also reputable online dealers with probably good used ones, but these are very expensive and still require insanely expensive lamps with 20 hour lifetimes.

Posted by Hillary Charles (Member # 769) on 04-25-2010, 12:22 PM:

It doesn't appear that projectors are an issue:

quote:
According to Johnson, the Super 8 film format is supported by a network of dedicated laboratories that process and digitize the output...

...and a 50-foot cartridge of Super 8 film scanned to HD are amazing."

At the least, if some want to call themselves FILMmakers, at least they are working with actual film. [Wink]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-25-2010, 11:42 PM:

Indeed, the best way to really tick off an independent filmmaker is to use dialogue such as "so tell me about your new video movie".

It's hilarious how offended they get, yet it is 100% true. [Razz]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-26-2010, 07:49 AM:

I didn't used to get the super-8 thing, either.

I think that the attraction of it is as follows:

- it is actual film, not videotape and has the long-term archival properties of film (especially when Kodachrome was still available)
- it has a unique look, not easily obtainable with any other format, and useful for flashback or nostalgic scenes in movies shot on other formats
- the cameras are small, lightweight, and easily obtainable

A primary disadvantage of super-8 is that it is difficult to make a composite release print in the format, and also nearly impossible to show it in a large screen. In general, it must be either transferred to videotape or blown up to 16mm or 35mm to be shown to audiences of any size.

Having said that, the cost of shooting and processing super-8 is not much different from that of 16mm, and the image quality of 16mm and also the quality of 16mm equipment is far superior.

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 04-26-2010, 07:03 PM:

Regular 8mm (double 8mm) film is also still available in several different black and white film stocks as well as 100D color reversal. Yale film and video sells stocks with processing included.

@Scott:
It's apparently pretty easy to print super8 in Europe. I had no idea how huge super 8 is over there.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-26-2010, 11:15 PM:

Scott, a Beaulieu 708EL Pro modified with an Elmo (Schneider) f1.0 lens, forced air cooling, heat filters and a 2000 watt external xenon lamphouse makes for a damned nice image on a really large screen. [Big Grin]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-27-2010, 12:55 AM:

I also have a sweet little B&H S8 projector in mint condition that I tagged at a thrift store for 2 bucks..

Dang, hope they can mag stripe Super8mm so I could use my Kodak 265 Sound Moviedeck, Dual 8 Projector...

No, what's gonna happen is they'll have optional, optical sound recording for the cameras .. and we can even go up to digital tracks on post processing from the labs, if necessary.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-27-2010, 02:18 AM:

There are still people using 9.5mm, almost fifty years after it was supposed to be dead.

Posted by Jack Theakston (Member # 4484) on 04-27-2010, 02:31 AM:

Of course, the naysayers are missing the fact that this isn't aimed at the professional (unless they're looking for a "look"), but for the student. That's the whole angle that Kodak has been pushing ever since home video-- the experience with shooting/exposing film at an affordable price.

And I have to admit, I used to knock professional Super8 a lot, but after seeing a few productions shot on, scanned in and timed PROPERLY (which accounts for at least 50% of the quality you see on screen), it rivaled 16mm productions I saw at the same festival.

The whole experience proved again the fact that quality craftsmanship is the winner in photography, not who's got the best toys on the block.

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 04-27-2010, 03:37 AM:

quote:
There are still people using 9.5mm,

And isn't that a beautiful format?

I have some 9.5 optical sound film here somewhere.
Just love it.

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 04-27-2010, 05:58 AM:

well i have all the good video stuff but i still use super 8mm now and then , guess i just like the look of it and i dont like giving up the old ways

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-27-2010, 06:31 AM:

quote: Ian Parfrey
And isn't that a beautiful format?

Nice large frame size, but it does have the problem that the picture goes very close to the edge of the film, and so tends to get scratched, as with the NT edge of Super-8. Pathé seem to have been keen on the idea of large frame sizes; on their Rural 17.5mm format they used curved corners to the frames, and fitted a very small perforation, not much larger than a Super-8 one, into the space this freed up.

quote: Ian Parfrey
I have some 9.5 optical sound film here somewhere.
Just love it.

Do you know how 9.5mm prints were made? Most of them were printed 3 up on specially perforated 35mm stock. However, Walton Films in the UK had another method that they used in the '60s for making 9.5mm colour prints. For the small numbers of prints required by that time it wasn't worth making them by conventional means, but they found another method of making a few prints of silent films. What they did was to convert a few 16mm prints. The perforation pitch of 9.5mm film is almost the same as on 16mm; I can't remember the figure for 9.5mm now, but I think it has one more frame per metre than 16mm. This is close enough that a 9.5mm print, perforated at 16mm pitch, will run through a projector. They built a machine which punched new 9.5mm perfs in the centre of the strip, with registration pins which picked up the original 16mm perfs on each edge. It then slit off 3.25 mm from each edge, leaving a 9.5 mm print. No, I'm not joking.

If you ever see a 9.5 mm silent colour print it was probably made in this way. You can easily tell them as the frame covers just about the full area of the film, and there is no frame bar as is normal on 9.5mm; the perforation intrudes into the top and bottom of each frame.

Of course, when projected some of the original 16mm frame was cropped on all four edges, but people didn't seem to notice; maybe they were just jetting used to seeing pan and scan on TV, and it did enable Walton to offer silent colour titles when it would have been uneconomic by conventional means.