Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Help me identify this film...

This is topic Help me identify this film... in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Lionel Fouillen (Member # 1475) on 12-24-2010, 02:05 AM:

Hello,

I have a few pieces of film given to me by some projectionists twenty years ago. I'd like to photograph them and be able to post hem on the web, but I lack the equipemnt to do it correctly. The technique I'm using so far is horrible but I'd be happy if any of you would recommend a method to give better results.

What I did is create a white image filling the screen of my laptop computer with maximum light intensity. Then I put the film on it and take a picture with my automatic Canon IXUS60 camera. The result sucks.

Anyway, here is a piece of 70mm I cannot identify. Would any film buff among you recognize this film based on the scenery ?

Thanks in advance.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 12-24-2010, 08:21 AM:

Do you have a regular scanner? I had a 35mm snipe I needed a still from and just stuck it on my scanner. Worked great, but it was also a black-and-white image.

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 12-24-2010, 09:31 AM:

Robert Redford?? Could be "The Sting", not a very sharp picture.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-24-2010, 11:09 AM:

I think it looks like it came from "OLIVER".

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 12-24-2010, 02:21 PM:

Oliver! ?
Song of Norway?

And why is the image horizontally offset?

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 12-24-2010, 08:09 PM:

I think it s from SONG OF NORWAY. I saw it during it's Road Show single projection Cinerama 70mm showing at the Cinerama in Honoulu. The movie was about the Norwegian classical music composer Edvard Grieg.

-Claude

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-25-2010, 01:11 AM:

(when you want to do another shoot like this using the monitor screen as a backlight, set the camera mode where the "leaf" macro symbol is highlighted, then the focus will really track down more sharply..a little tip...)

Posted by Lionel Fouillen (Member # 1475) on 12-25-2010, 02:06 AM:

Thanks for tips to get a better picture. I'll try as well with a real scanner next week. I think it's definitely "Song of Norway" because, now that some of you mentioned it, I searched Google and found the film poster bill, where the same character with same clothes is visible.

I'll post a better scan of the film next week. I also have 3-4 frames from a 70mm print of The King and I (originally shot in Cinemascope 55) and a few frames from a 4-track mag. 35mm print of King Kong (1976). Might be of interest for some of you. I'll post that as well.

Paul, the image isn't horizontally offset. I suppose you refer to the dark vertical stripe on the right. It is a portion of the decor in the picture, but I admit it's not well visible on this lousy scan.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 12-25-2010, 11:18 AM:

Ah, thanks for the explanation Lionel.

Zalig Kerstfeest!

Posted by Lionel Fouillen (Member # 1475) on 12-30-2010, 04:41 AM:

Hi again, using a scanner, I obtained these files, posting here for the "digital era youngsters" who might be curious to see pieces of 70mm, magnetic tracks and the old Cinemascope 35mm format with Fox perforations. Viewed towards emulsion side. Magnetic tracks are on the back.

SONG OF NORWAY :

THE KING AND I :
Note the image slightly shorter in height, after printing onto 70mm from Cinemascope 55 negative.
I also had a few frames from the opening titles showing the "in Grandeur 70" logo, but I remember offering it to a friend of mine. Damn me [Roll Eyes]

CINERAMA :
Cinerama 70 trailer, reading "Our next feature in Cinerama" in French.
Was it common to have Cinerama trailers ?

KING KONG 1976:
4-track magnetic on 35mm, with half usable optical track in the later 2.35 aspect ratio.
Sorry for the poor brightness condition.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-30-2010, 08:54 AM:

Lionel,

Please note on the 70mm scans there are little round holes every 5 sprocket holes. These 'frame space markers' were very handy when you needed to make a patch in a completely black section of film.

The half of an optical track was the emergency backup for a complete failure of the 35mm magnetic sound system. Although it was a little noisy at times, it was better than losing a show from a failure in your multi-track system. I think that feature was lovingly referred to as the "SYA TRACK".

KEN

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-30-2010, 10:09 AM:

Some of the ones in those pictures don't line up.

Aren't they supposed to mark the outboard edge of the film so it's easier to thread up correctly? Either the film was flipped horizontally in a couple of those scans or the frame holes weren't properly oriented in the lab.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-30-2010, 10:25 AM:

Randy,

The holes are made in the manufacture of the raw stock. It is unlikely that they would line up with the actual frame lines as the lab splices made on the fly do in 35mm processing. The holes denote the "frame space" and not the actual frame lines. These were a definite aid in making patches and joins but not used for threading or actual frame line identity.

It was not uncommon for the operator to "forget" that there are 5 sprocket holes to the frame in 70mm. This was very true in a booth that ran both 35 and then 70 only intermittently.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 12-30-2010, 04:54 PM:

quote: Kenneth Wuepper
that feature was lovingly referred to as the "SYA TRACK".

Damn, you learn something new every day! Thanks for that tidbit, Ken; I thought I knew all there was to know about 4trk mag being that it was a format that I loved to run and collect, but this is a new one for me. What exactly does it mean? I used to call it the "peek-a-boo track."

I worked a house in Texas that played THE SOUND OF MUSIC and THE AGONY AND ECSTASY -- different engagements. The theatre got 4trk mag prints on both occasions, but we had no stereo equipment. I had to play them using the "SYA track" and was horrified at how bad it sounded. The cell read the unevenness of the mag stripe as uneven, low frequency rumble. I was in pain every show knowing what an awful experience I was giving my audiences of those great films. I even experimented every night trying to see if I could cover part of the slit to block the mag edge, and while I was able to reduce the rumble, it also reduced the audio level; turning up the gain was equally disastrous, just adding more hiss and scratch noise.

When I finally got to my next gig where I had some control, the first thing I did was to make them install penthouses and a full system. I vowed I would never run a mag print again using the awful optical peek-a-boo track.

A question -- when aprox did the KING AND I finally get a 70mm re-release? Interestingly, the image there extends underneath the two inside mag tracks....possibly to prevent black bars on top and bottom?

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 12-30-2010, 05:00 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
What exactly does it mean?

Frank.

It's the "Save Your Arse Track" [Big Grin]

And to think, we in Oz just called the format boring old "Commopt" [sleep]

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 12-30-2010, 05:36 PM:

SMPTE Standard 185 specifies that audio records 4 and 5 shall be adjacent to the frameline identifier. That's Right-Center and Right channels.

_The King and I_ 70mm rerelease was in 1961, New York on March 23, Los Angeles on May 10.

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 12-30-2010, 08:37 PM:

<duplicate information -- post deleted>

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-30-2010, 09:23 PM:

(..and good seeing Jeff Bridges in that clip again...) I also ran the 4trk Mag version of "King Kong" on its opening night. RCA guy came in and gave our Simplex XL Mag system a good tuning prior to the opening night.

It sounded great... I also have some clips from that movie when we ran it in 1982 as a kid show ..and played it in mag/optical once again ...

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-08-2011, 01:40 PM:

KING KONG (Dino D.) had a GREAT sound mix -- Academy Award winner, I think.

I played it in the late 70s to nearly sold out houses (1500 seats -- balcony closed -- over three days) and an excellent, positive audience response each show, albeit mostly college kids. We added two double 18in subwoofer Community bins in the pit and ran it through a DBX Sub-Harmonic Bass Synthesizer
processor that takes everything below 150Hz and halves it, then adds it back into the low end and then sends it to the EB channel. It's an amazing piece of equipment; it sounds very natural, just very rich and deep -- you felt Kong's footsteps in the pit of your stomach! [thumbsup]

I gotta tell yah, it really kicked ass.

Now there's a film that the public liked and the critics hated. Happens all the time....aint that right Little Fockers?!

What it had going against it was the fact that the original was a beloved classic that everyone loved, so people right off want to know why you are even trying to mess with it. People go into to remakes with a negative chip on their shoulder from the get-go. Aint that right Mr. Cruise and Mr. Reeves? (WAR OF THE WORLDS & THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, to name just a few)