This is topic Japanese earthquake and tsunami in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-11-2011, 08:48 PM:
 
I was watching Otto Premenger's THE CARDINAL on DVD last night when the Civ Alert sirens sounded all over the state at about 9:15 last night. I put the movie into pause and switched over to TV and learned Hawaii was under a tsunami warning after a 8.9 earthquake struck the North eastern coast of eastern Honshu in Japan and generated a Pacific wide tsunami after the first waves slammed into Sendai about five minutes after the tremor. All of Honolulu' TV stations were showing actual footage of the waves moving slowly over the city and farmlands and I was very sad when I saw it. The quake struck Japan at about 7: 45 pm Hawaii time last night (Friday 2:45 pm in Japan) and a ' Tsunami Watch' was issued immediately for Hawaii. The 'watch' was upgraded to a full warning at 9:30 and residents were told to expect the first wave at about 3:10 the following morning. I was planning to stay up until that time but decided to go to bed until the waves arrived. When the waves struck the islands, nothing exciting was happening so I decided to go back to bed. When I tuned in at about 7:00 this morning, the waves did strike Hawaii as well as other locations around the Pacific but it was still too early to learn how severe the damage from the wave was. All I know so far was the damage in Hawaii was not severe but there was a loss of life on the west coast when a man photographing the incoming waves was swept away.

-Claude
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 03-11-2011, 08:54 PM:
 
I was still up when all of this started breaking out of Japan too: it was pretty scary watching the footage of a refinery on fire live.

My thoughts and prayers are with those in harms way right now.

AJG
 
Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-12-2011, 12:46 PM:
 
My family and friends, being in or around the Tokyo area or further south, are shaken up but fine.

My grandfather's home town (Taira in Iwaki in Fukushima prefecture) looks like it took a major hit. Been watching NHK, NTV, ANN, and FNN on-line news feeds here. Definitely scary images.
 
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-12-2011, 01:52 PM:
 
Although there were no loss of life in Hawaii, there was considerable property damage on all of the major islands. A lot of small boat harbors lost some moorings and people who did not take their craft out to sea had their vessel smash into piers and other boats. Some were washed away. The Kona coast on the big island of Hawaii suffered the most damage when eighteen homes and apartments were either destroyed or suffered major damage. A house was swept away and found floating at Kealakekua Bay, the site where Captain James Cook and some of his men were killed by the the local natives in 1779. The most dramatic video footage I saw last night during the ten o clock news was the strong surge of water washing across the street in the town of Kona. Considerable amount of damage to the beach front shops and stores occurred here including a foot of water that washed into the lobby of the King Kamehameha Hotel. The most alarming thing I saw that was captured with a infrared camera when the waves were due to hit the islands was a few people at Waikiki Beach who ignored warning to stay away from the area who wanted to see the waves come in. Unlike the idiot who was killed by the tsunami when he ignored warnings to stay away from the beach in California, these same fools were lucky this time but will they be if they tried it again when another tsunami threatens Hawaii?

-Claude
 
Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 03-12-2011, 02:15 PM:
 
And in other news "Battle: Los Angeles" opened on Friday to an estimated $13.5 Million on its way to a 35-40 Million dollar opening weekend.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. My teenage neighbor across the street had no idea what happened in Japan but loved to see the destruction of LA.
 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-12-2011, 03:01 PM:
 
And what the hell does THAT have to do with this?
 
Posted by Jonathan Althaus (Member # 5042) on 03-12-2011, 03:03 PM:
 
Because the aliens caused the earthquake and the tsunami that followed
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-12-2011, 04:25 PM:
 
quote: Claude Ayakawa
Although there were no loss of life in Hawaii, there was considerable property damage on all of the major islands. A lot of small boat harbors lost some moorings and people who did not take their craft out to sea had their vessel smash into piers and other boats. Some were washed away. The Kona coast on the big island of Hawaii suffered the most damage when eighteen homes and apartments were either destroyed or suffered major damage. A house was swept away and found floating at Kealakekua Bay, the site where Captain James Cook and some of his men were killed by the the local natives in 1779.
I thought of you when I first heard this story break, which was early morning on Friday our time. On weekday mornings I phone my girlfriend in Colton, CA (about 80 miles inland from the southern California coast) at 0500 my time / 2100 hers and we talk for an hour or so before I leave for work. On Friday, she'd heard the first news of the earthquake, but because I'd just got up and gone through the shower without having put the radio on, it was news to me. At that time, there were fears that the tsunami would devastate the entire Pacific islands and cause major damage to the west coast of the US, all the way from Alaska to San Diego. By late yesterday afternoon it seemed that thankfully those fears had not been realised. The Friday evening news broadcasts in Britain basically took the line that, apart from the one Darwin award nominee in Crescent City (sorry if that sounds a bit callous, but he was trying to surf the tsunami...), there had been no significant damage; and they specifically said that Hawaii was OK. Very sorry to hear that the infrastructural damage was in fact substantial, but of course glad that there don't seem to have been any injuries or deaths.

In the end, there was nothing of any consequence on the SoCal coast, but my other half was obviously a bit nervous. She has some very close friends in Santa Monica, who we've visited a few times, and I quipped yesterday that I was glad that we weren't sitting in a restaurant she likes that is just across the street from the pier there.

Captain Cook certainly seems to have had a knack for visiting the sites of natural disasters, about 300 years before they happened! He landed near Christchurch, too. Sitting here writing this about 50 miles from his birthplace and 40 from where he spent most of his childhood, I'm starting to get a tinsy bit nervous...

All that having been said, of course, my thoughts are with everyone in northern Japan. The infrastructural recovery from the Kobe earthquake took a decade and cost around $100bn, and from what I gather this disaster is an order of magnitude bigger.
 
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 03-12-2011, 08:50 PM:
 
With a sizeable portion of it still to go, the award for 'Dumbest Post Of The Decade' goes to:

JONATHAN M CRIST! for his completely disrespectful post in this very thread...

quote: Jonathan M. Crist
And in other news "Battle: Los Angeles" opened on Friday to an estimated $13.5 Million on its way to a 35-40 Million dollar opening weekend.

-----------------------

Paul, I'm glad your family were not affected by this terrible, terrible tragedy.
 
Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 03-13-2011, 01:09 AM:
 
I have a friend who is currently living in Japan teaching English. He lives near Koriyama so wasn't affected by the tsunami, he did get quite a shaking though. Of more concern to me now though is he is 60 miles northwest of the nuclear power plant that currently has two reactors (apparently) melting down.
 
Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-13-2011, 06:30 AM:
 
Yes Claude, I was very glad to hear that your state didn't get the distruction that they first were predicting.

And given the size of this thing, Japan there certainly could have been much more devastation that it sustained. They can be very proud of their preparedness with buildings all built to withstand quake forces and of their high-tech early warning systems for the quakes as well as for the incoming tsunami.

Even on our West Coast, where we KNOW there is a monsterous major fault, we have none of this. How is this possible?

Let's just hope that nuclear plant holds.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-13-2011, 01:39 PM:
 
A lot of the video I've seen of the tsunami rushing in and pulverizing those coastal cities and towns in Japan is both spectacular and sickening. My heart goes out to those people affected by this.

I watched one 6 minute long video that caught the instant the ocean water started rushing through the streets. The camera man was shooting from a metal stairway that led up a hill. The water just kept coming in higher and higher, first carrying cars and by the end of the video it was carrying or smashing buildings. Even the camera man's metal stairway started being taken apart, leaving a dozen or so spectators stranded on the hill. The whole town was being instantly destroyed.

It may take weeks for people to figure out just how many lives were lost and tally the full cost of the destruction. There's no telling what kind of impact this may have on the global economy.

I'm thankful the area of south western Japan where I lived back when I was a kid was spared. It looks like Tokyo will have lots of repairs to make.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 03-13-2011, 10:29 PM:
 
Bobby, I'd be curious if you had a source for that video.

The ones I have seen are breathtaking, but sad.

AJG
 
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-13-2011, 10:50 PM:
 
I thought all the footage from the Indonesian tsunami in 2004 was frightening but the ones from the last weeks was even more graphic Although it only looked like the water was moving inland, there were people in the path of the waves getting killed. So far, about 1600 people are known to have perished and there are more than fifteen hundred people still missing.

-Claude
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 03-13-2011, 10:56 PM:
 
Just from all the photos I've seen...I can't even imagine what the final toll will be. It scares me to even wonder.

How much warning did these towns have after the quake before the tsunami hit?

AJG
 
Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-13-2011, 10:57 PM:
 
One can do a search on any of the Japanese news companies, even in English, and get to links of earthquake footage. Some national names to search on would be:

NHK (Nihon Hoso Kyokai) - Japan's version of the BBC or PBS - their World News coverage is in English.

Asahi News Network (ANN)
Fuji Television or News Network (FNN)
Nihon (or Nippon) Television (NTV)

There are also dozens of regional networks, though searching in English may not get to these. All of these networks have lots of links to earthquake and tsunami footage.

And of course a lot more stuff out there from non-traditional network sources, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and the like.

If you can search in Japanese, even more stuff becomes available.

Here in 'Vegas, the local cable provider Cox has made the "TV Japan" channel (channel 273) free for the rest of this month. TV Japan is a mix of network channels from Japan, mostly NHK.
 
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-13-2011, 11:35 PM:
 
quote: Aaron Garman
Bobby, I'd be curious if you had a source for that video.
Unfortunately I can't find the original footage (over 6 minutes long and even in HD). Whoever posted it removed it from YouTube. I did find this shorter clip.
 
Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 03-14-2011, 01:04 AM:
 
A friend of mine ended up posting a link to someone on FB that had it:

Tsunami

You may have to have a Facebook account to view it.

AJG
 
Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 03-14-2011, 11:23 AM:
 
Satellite photos before and after
 
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-15-2011, 03:38 PM:
 
The estimated cost of the damage caused by last weeks earthquake and tsunami is about a hundred billion dollars and that amount is very staggering not to mention the tremendous loss of lives. Because of my Japanese ancestry and the horrific events occurred not to far from where my mother's parents were born, I am even more saddened by the tragedy in Japan.

This was the 2nd year in a row when Hawaii had a tsunami warning. Last year's alert was caused by a earthquake in Chile where many people died from the quake and tsunami but Hawaii was very lucky when wave action was very minor and there was no property damage. We were not that lucky this time. The Honolulu Star Advertiser reported this morning the damage estimate in Hawaii to be in the tens of millions of dollars. The tsunami is also affecting our tourist industry when many Japanese are canceling their Hawaiian vacation.

-Claude
 
Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 03-23-2011, 08:57 AM:
 
During the Korean War I had the good fortune to be stationed in Sendai (1951-52) in Camp Sendai barracks formerly used by the Japanese. Having some free time, I shared a small Japanese house amid the rice paddies. A uniformed schoolboy would come through the fields to sell me tofu, while an old woman would arrange flowers in the tokunama regularly.

Sendai (the ninth largest city) was still recovering from the Pacific War; the trolly tracks were being repaired in the cobblestoned streets and the jinrickshaw (pedicab) men wore tattered military overcoats as they placed a charcoal fire in a Maxwell House Coffee can between my combat boots in the frigid vehicles.

Aoba castle had burnt down in the bombing, and the centuries-old cherry trees in the town park were massive trunks with missing branches. At night all the shops were shuttered, and the unlit streets devoid of readable street signs,all looked the same.

Matsushima had a bay filled with tiny islnds, high and sculptured by the sea--one of the most beautiful sights in Japan.

People in Tokyo sometimes referred to the city as "Sendai sabaku" or sendai desert, and thought of the residents as provincial, but actually the pace of life there was less hectic, the people incredibly polite and the speech softer (the 'g' consonant pronounced 'ng.)'

On radio this morning a newscaster proposed the American baseball teams invite the Sendai team to play in the US to escabe the devastation of earthquake, tsunami and atomic radiation risk. I don't know the condition of the players, but I have unlimited respect for those heroically risking their health and their lives to try to contain the dangers of atomic meltdown.
 
Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 03-24-2011, 07:44 PM:
 
I got lucky. I was in Japan until the 8th on my way back from india and thailand. Initially I wanted to stay until the 12th or so, but Delta's Frequent Flier mileage chart jumped from 60K to 100K miles or so for the redemption of a roundtrip flight from Atlanta to Bangkok and a stopover in Tokyo on the way back.

I actually found the people more friendlier in Japan than Thailand despite Thailand catering to tourists and Japan having this reputation of being not so inclusive of foreigners.
 
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-08-2013, 11:39 AM:
 

It has been 867 days since the last post.


 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-08-2013, 11:39 AM:
 
This was emailed to me by a friend this morning. Not being a nuclear scientist I can't judge how alarmed we should be and how much of an element of politicking and tinfoil hattery there is (given the source - a news agency funded by the Russian government), but anyway (my emphases):

quote: Russia Today
Pump and pray: Tepco might have to pour water on Fukushima wreckage forever

Fukushima is a nightmare disaster area, and no one has the slightest idea what to do. The game is to prevent the crippled nuclear plant from turning into an “open-air super reactor spectacular” which would result in a hazardous, melted catastrophe.

On April 25, 2011 – one month after the explosions at the Fukushima nuclear plant and the anniversary of Chernobyl - I was interviewed by RT and asked to compare Chernobyl and Fukushima. The clip, which you can find on YouTube, was entitled, “Can’t seal Fukushima like Chernobyl - it all goes into the sea.” Since then, huge amounts of radioactivity have flowed from the wrecked reactors directly into the Pacific Ocean. Attempts to stop the flow of contaminated water from Fukushima into the sea were always unlikely to succeed. It is like trying to push water uphill. Now they all seem to have woken up to the issue and have begun to panic.

The problem is this: the fission process in a reactor creates huge amounts of heat. Of course, that is the whole point of the machine - the heat makes steam which runs turbines. Water is pumped through channels between the fuel rods and this cools them and heats the water. If there is no water, or the channels are blocked, the heat actually melts the fuel into a big blob which falls to the bottom of the steel vessel in which all this occurs - the pressure vessel - and then melts its way through the steel, into the ground, and down in the direction of China. Well, not China in this case, but actually Buenos Aires, Argentina (I figured out).

I have been keeping an eye on developments, and it is quite clear that the reactors are no longer containing the molten fuel - some proportion of which is now in the ground underneath them. Both this material and the remaining material in what was the containment are very hot and are fissioning. Tepco is quite aware - and so is everyone else in the know - that the only hope of preventing what could become an open-air super reactor spectacular is to cool the fuel, the lumps of fuel distributed throughout the system, mainly in the holed pressure vessels, and also in the spent fuel tanks and in the ground under the reactors. That all this is fissioning away merrily (though at a low level) is clear from the occasional reports of short half life nuclides like the radioXenons. The game is to prevent it all turning into the open air super reactor located somewhere under the ground. To do this, they have to pump vast amounts of water into the reactors, the fuel pond and generally all over the area where they think the stuff is or might be. This means seawater since luckily they are near the sea. But they are also unluckily near the sea - since you cannot pump the sea onto the land without it wanting to flow back into the sea.

Now a good proportion of the radioactive elements, the radionuclides, are soluble in water. The Caesiums 137 and 134, Strontiums 89 and 90, Barium 140, Radium 226, Lead 210, Rutheniums and Rhodiums, Silvers and Mercuries, Carbons and Tritiums, Iodines and noble gases Kryptons and Xenons merrily dissolve in the hot seawater. There is also a likelihood that the normally insoluble Uraniums, Plutoniums and Neptuniums will dissolve in seawater to some extent, because of the chloride ions. And if they don’t, the micron and nano-particles of these materials will disperse in the water as colloidal suspensions. So a lot of this stuff gets into the sea. Of course, most of the fuss is being made by the Americans who are on the other side of the Pacific Ocean. How unfair that the USA should suffer from the Japanese affair, they think. And also feel a level of fear, underneath all this. As perhaps they should since it is their crappy reactors that blew up.

We hear that 400 tons of highly radioactive water is now escaping the barriers that Tepco erected and is reaching the sea. Japan’s prime minister, Shinzo Abe, said on August 7 that “stabilizing Fukushima is our challenge.” Tepco said, “This is extremely serious — we are unable to control radioactive water seeping out of the Fukushima plant.” CNN quoted “industry experts” saying that “Tepco has failed to address the problem...[the experts] question Tepco’s ability to safely decommission the plant.”

There are some things I want to say about all this. First is the inevitable discourse manipulation - something that we have seen in the media ever since this disaster occurred. “Decommission the plant” suggests some calm and ordered scientific process akin to shutting down and defueling an old reactor which has reached the end of its design life. It sparks images of a wise nuclear engineer in a lab coat consulting a document, discussing some issue with a worker in brilliant white overalls with a Tepco logo, wearing a white hard-hat. The reality is that this is a nightmare disaster area where no one has the slightest idea what to do and which has always been out of control. All that they can do is continue to pump in the seawater to hope that the various lumps of molten fuel will not increase their rate of fissioning. And pray. The water will then pick up the radionuclides and flow downhill back to the sea. Of course, they can put up a barrier; surround the plant with a wall. But eventually the water will fill up the pond and flow over the wall. All that water will create a soggy marsh and destabilize the foundations of the reactor buildings which will then collapse and prevent further cooling. Then the Spectacular. All this is predictable enough.

Let us look at some numbers. Four hundred tons of seawater a day are flowing into the sea. That is 400 cubic meters. In one year, that is 146,000 cubic meters. That is a pond 10 meters deep and 120 meters square. This will have to go on forever, a new pond every year, unless they can get the radioactive material out. But here is the other problem. They can’t get close enough because the radiation levels are too high. The water itself is lethally radioactive. Gamma radiation levels tens of meters from the water are enormously high. No one can approach without being fried.

But I want to make two other points. The first is that the Pacific Ocean is big enough for this level of release not to represent the global catastrophe that some are predicting. Let’s get some scoping perspective on this. The volume of the North Pacific is 300 million cubic kilometers. The total inventory of the four Fukushima Daiichi reactors, including their spent fuel pools, is 732 tons of Uranium and Plutonium fuel which is largely insoluble in sea water. The inventory in terms of the medium half-life nuclides of radiological significance Cs-137, Cs-134 and Strontium-90, is 3 x 1018 becquerels (Bq) each. Adding these up gives about 1019 Bq. If we dissolve that entire amount into the Pacific, we get a mean concentration of 33 Bq per cubic meter - not great, but not lethal. Of course this is ridiculous since the catastrophe released less than 1017 Bq of these combined nuclides and even if all of this ends up in the sea (which it may do), the overall dilution will result in a concentration of 1 Bq per cubic meter. So the people in California can relax. In fact, the contamination of California and indeed the rest of the planet from the global weapons test fallout of 1959-1962 was far worse, and resulted in the cancer epidemic which began in 1980. The atmospheric megaton explosions drove the radioactivity into the stratosphere and the rain brought it back to earth to get into the milk, the food, the air, and our children’s bones. Kennedy and Kruschev called a halt in 1963, saving millions.

What we have here in Fukushima is more local, but still very deadly and certainly worse than Chernobyl since the populations are so large. And this brings me to my second point, and a warning to the Japanese people. The contamination of the sea results in adsorption of the radionuclides by the sand and silt on the coast and river estuaries. The east coast of Japan, the sediment and sand on the shores, will now be horribly radioactive. This material is re-suspended into the air through a process called sea-to-land transfer. The coastal air they inhale is laden with radioactive particles. I know about this since I was asked in 1998 by the Irish State to carry out a two-year study of the cancer effects of releases into the Irish Sea by the nuclear reprocessing plant at Sellafield. We looked at small area data leaked to us by the Welsh Cancer Registry covering the period of 1974-1989, when Sellafield was releasing significant amounts of radio-Caesium, radio-Strontium, and Plutonium. Results showed a remarkable and sharp 30 per cent increase in cancer rates in those living within 1km of the coast. The effect was very local and dropped away sharply at 2km. In trying to discover the cause, we came across measurements made by the UK Atomic Energy Research Establishment. Using special cloth filters, they had measured Plutonium in the air by distance from the contaminated coast. The trend was the same as the cancer trend, increasing sharply in the 1km strip near the coast. We later examined cancer rates in a higher resolution questionnaire study in Carlingford, Ireland. This clearly showed the effect increasing inside the 1km radius in the same way. The results were never published in scientific literature but were presented to the UK CERRIE committee and eventually made it into a book which I wrote in 2007 entitled, “Wolves of Water.” Make no mistake, this is a deadly effect. By 2003, we had found 20-fold excess risk of leukemia and brain tumours in the population of children on the north Wales coast. The children were denied of course by the Welsh Cancer Intelligence Unit that supplanted the old Welsh Cancer Registry - which had been shut down immediately after the data was released to us. We did publish this in scientific literature.

Nevertheless, the sea-to-land effect is real. And anyone living within 1km of the coast to at least 200km north or south of Fukushima should get out. They should evacuate inland. It is not eating the fish and shellfish that gets you - it’s breathing.

And what about the future? The future is bleak. I see no way of resolving the catastrophe. They will either have to pour water on the wreckage forever, and thus continue to contaminate the local sea, or find some more drastic immediate solution. I was told that US experts had the idea at the beginning of bombing the reactors into the harbour. Not so stupid in my opinion. That at least may enable them to get sufficiently close to the pieces to pick them up, and should also solve the cooling problem. Apparently (my contact said) the French argued them out of it because of the negative effect on nuclear energy (and Uranium shares).

There are things that ring alarm bells to me about this article: the swipe at 'crappy American reactors' (which were never designed to be operated in a high risk location such as Fukushima, TEPCO knew when they bought them and then the Japanese safety systems they added to the plant failed to work), and the swipes at Kennedy and Sellafield suggest to me that there is a definite agenda behind this piece. But even so, if the basic scientific facts and argument he throws out hold water (sorry - couldn't resist the pun), this is pretty worrying both for Japan and for the use of nuclear power as a major energy source, especially in regions where there is a significant risk of geological natural disaster.
 
Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 08-08-2013, 06:02 PM:
 
quote: Leo Enticknap
how much of an element of politicking and tinfoil hattery there is (given the source
I find it somewhat ironic that the original story was published on Monday(Aug 6th),
which is exactly 68 years to the day of another famous Japanese "nuclear incident".
(which was not mentioned anywhere in any of the versions of this story I've seen)

Coincidence, or conspiracy? You be the judge. . .
 




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