This is topic Hobbit being filmed in at 48FPS in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 04-13-2011, 02:50 PM:
Peter Jackson has announced, via a post on his official Facebook page, that he will be shooting his adaptation of The Hobbit at the higher rate of 48 frames per second.
The usual rate is 24fps, and has been since its introduction to cinema in 1927. The Hobbit will be the first major motion picture in history to feature the upgrade
Jackson thinks, "after nine decades", it's time for a change.
In the post, he addressed the inevitable backlash from "film purists" by saying that audience will "get used to this new look very quickly" as it will bring about a "much more lifelife and comfortable viewing experience."
He also said that films will become "easier to watch, especially in 3-D", with audiences being able to sit through "two hours of footage without getting eyestrain".
Jackson went onto claim that the difference between 24 and 48 fps is "significant", likening the technological evolution to when "vinyl records were supplanted by digital CDs".
The Lord of the Rings director also thanked Warner Bros for their support in the advancement, before predicting over 10,000 screens would be capable of projecting 48fps by the time of The Hobbit's release.
Jackson, who won an Academy Award for his work on The Return of the King, took over the directing chair after Guillermo del Toro left. He had become frustrated with the constant production delays that had thwarted the project early on.
The Office's Martin Freeman has been announced to be playing Bilbo Baggins in the film, a role originally played by Sir Ian Holm in The Lord of the Rings trilogy, while Sir Ian McKellen and Andy Serkis will be reprising the characters of Gandalf and Gollum respectively.
Serkis will also act as Second Unit Director on the project.
The Hobbit will be split into two parts, with the first being released in December 2012.
from here:
http://www.totalfilm.com/news/peter-jackson-is-shooting-the-hobbit-at-48-frames-per-second?ns_campaign=news&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=totalfilm&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+totalfilm%2Fimdbnews+%28 Total+Film+IMDb+aggregate%29
Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-13-2011, 04:13 PM:
Here's the text of Jackson's post.
quote:
Time for an update. Actually, we've been intending to kick off with a video, which is almost done, so look out for that in the next day or two. In the meantime, I thought I'd address the news that has been reported about us shooting THE HOBBIT at 48 frames per second, and explain to you what my thoughts are about this.
We are indeed shooting at the higher frame rate. The key thing to understand is that this process requires both shooting and projecting at 48 fps, rather than the usual 24 fps (films have been shot at 24 frames per second since the late 1920's). So the result looks like normal speed, but the image has hugely enhanced clarity and smoothness. Looking at 24 frames every second may seem ok--and we've all seen thousands of films like this over the last 90 years--but there is often quite a lot of blur in each frame, during fast movements, and if the camera is moving around quickly, the image can judder or "strobe."
Shooting and projecting at 48 fps does a lot to get rid of these issues. It looks much more lifelike, and it is much easier to watch, especially in 3-D. We've been watching HOBBIT tests and dailies at 48 fps now for several months, and we often sit through two hours worth of footage without getting any eye strain from the 3-D. It looks great, and we've actually become used to it now, to the point that other film experiences look a little primitive. I saw a new movie in the cinema on Sunday and I kept getting distracted by the juddery panning and blurring. We're getting spoilt!
Originally, 24 fps was chosen based on the technical requirements of the early sound era. I suspect it was the minimum speed required to get some audio fidelity out of the first optical sound tracks. They would have settled on the minimum speed because of the cost of the film stock. 35mm film is expensive, and the cost per foot (to buy the negative stock, develop it and print it), has been a fairly significant part of any film budget.
So we have lived with 24 fps for 9 decades--not because it's the best film speed (it's not by any stretch), but because it was the cheapest speed to achieve basic acceptable results back in 1927 or whenever it was adopted.
None of this thinking is new. Doug Trumbull developed and promoted a 60 frames per second process called ShowScan about 30 years ago and that looked great. Unfortunately it was never adopted past theme park use. I imagine the sheer expense of burning through expensive film stock at the higher speed (you are charged per foot of film, which is about 18 frames), and the projection difficulties in cinemas, made it tough to use for "normal" films, despite looking amazing. Actually, if anybody has been on the Star Tours ride at Disneyland, you've experienced the life like quality of 60 frames per second. Our new King Kong attraction at Universal Studios also uses 60 fps.
Now that the world's cinemas are moving towards digital projection, and many films are being shot with digital cameras, increasing the frame rate becomes much easier. Most of the new digital projectors are capable of projecting at 48 fps, with only the digital servers needing some firmware upgrades. We tested both 48 fps and 60 fps. The difference between those speeds is almost impossible to detect, but the increase in quality over 24 fps is significant.
Film purists will criticize the lack of blur and strobing artifacts, but all of our crew--many of whom are film purists--are now converts. You get used to this new look very quickly and it becomes a much more lifelike and comfortable viewing experience. It's similar to the moment when vinyl records were supplanted by digital CDs. There's no doubt in my mind that we're heading towards movies being shot and projected at higher frame rates.
Warner Bros. have been very supportive, and allowed us to start shooting THE HOBBIT at 48 fps, despite there never having been a wide release feature film filmed at this higher frame rate. We are hopeful that there will be enough theaters capable of projecting 48 fps by the time The Hobbit comes out where we can seriously explore that possibility with Warner Bros. However, while it's predicted that there may be over 10,000 screens capable of projecting THE HOBBIT at 48 fps by our release date in Dec, 2012, we don’t yet know what the reality will be. It is a situation we will all be monitoring carefully. I see it as a way of future-proofing THE HOBBIT. Take it from me--if we do release in 48 fps, those are the cinemas you should watch the movie in. It will look terrific!
Time to jump in the car and drive to Bag End for the day. Video coming soon!
Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 04-13-2011, 04:37 PM:
Also the IMAX film Momentum (1992) was shot and projected at 48FPS, It looked amazing.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-13-2011, 05:33 PM:
Roger Ebert is surely creaming his jeans now. And the guy who invented Maxivision is probably putting a gun in his mouth. Also, is Hobbit really being filmed at 48fps? Maybe shot at 48fps, but not filmed!
The biggest and most important question is this: How will this translate to video? What is the pulldown ratio? Are 120Hz TVs now screwed since now they'll have to rely on pulldown? Judder makes its way back into the home until the new 480Hz TVs come out (and new Blu-ray players as well, except for the PS3 which will just need a simple firmware update).
quote:
Doug Trumbull developed and promoted a 60 frames per second process called ShowScan about 30 years ago and that looked great.
The one time I saw Showscan it really didn't look all that impressive. High contrast edges "shimmered" for lack of a better term.
Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 04-13-2011, 05:38 PM:
It may give Maxivision, 5/70 Showscan and SDS 70 a chance to be used for capture.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-13-2011, 06:06 PM:
I ran Showscan back in the 90s. I remember a couple of things.
*It was LOUD! Damn it was loud being in that booth (which foolishly had a tile floor rather than carpet to help with that.) If you tried to run the projector without the door closed you could say goodbye to your hearing for a day.
*The image did "shimmer" (again for lack of a better term). Then again trying to mechanically pull down 5 perf 70mm at 2.5 times normal speed is really asking a lot. Overall it didn't impress me. It just looked like video with a very faint film bounce, and the bouncing seats were just dumb to me.
*The projectors were shitty and the automation was godawful. I gave up on rewinding through the projector and ALWAYS rewound it on the rewind bench and then re-threaded it. As long as the projectors did not run backwards, all was fine, so I simply removed the stop cue from the 3rd show (3 shows on a reel) and told the ushers to radio me every time they started the third show (since it was only 4 minutes long) and I would head back down and reset it.
*It was really, really, really loud.
Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 04-13-2011, 06:49 PM:
Its not being "filmed" but shot digitally at 48FPS in 3D. Sorry for the "filmed" teaser.
Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 04-14-2011, 08:44 AM:
quote: the article
Jackson went onto claim that the difference between 24 and 48 fps is "significant", likening the technological evolution to when "vinyl records were supplanted by digital CDs".
Probably a poor choice of comparisons there considering he used the term 'purists'...
Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-14-2011, 12:48 PM:
quote: Joe Redifer
How will this translate to video?
THAAAT's what I was wondering. At 48fps, and 3D to boot, there's no way it will fit on one blu-ray is there?
Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 04-14-2011, 01:35 PM:
What? You mean they would be using a format which is NOT easily translated to home video? You mean people might actually be convinced that it's better to see this movie in the theatre?
Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-14-2011, 02:25 PM:
Only if it's digital.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-14-2011, 05:32 PM:
I have no doubt it will fit on to Blu-ray. Granted, these damn wizards and munchkins movies that Jackson likes to make lately tend to be 3+ hours long. But with that they'll have to keep trailers, special features and all of that other useless crap off of the disc and put it on disc 2. Or they could take the DVD route and put the first 2 hours on one disc and the second 2 hours on disc 2 and then the useless nonsense on disc 3. And I'm sure there will be a 2D version.
It'll work.
Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 04-14-2011, 08:37 PM:
how about a discrete 7.1 soundmix to boot!
Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-14-2011, 08:49 PM:
How can that be? There are twice as many frames and they're all twice as big. Even though that math isn't EXACTLY right (I know it's not a frame by frame count with compression and such), but still that's a lot of info.
Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 04-14-2011, 09:27 PM:
quote:
Doug Trumbull developed and promoted a 60 frames per second process called ShowScan about 30 years ago and that looked great. Unfortunately it was never adopted past theme park use.
And Pizza Parlors!
So, he's not even sure it will be released in 48fps digital, and I guess no idea what he is going to do with film. Could be a lot of hype over nothing.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-14-2011, 09:28 PM:
It's not like current Blu-rays movies are on the verge of running out of space.
Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 04-15-2011, 06:11 AM:
Can't digital cinema projectors project 48FPS? the file is digital, its not like you have to change gears an run the film projector at crazy loud speeds (an IMAX projector going at 48FPS is scary)
quote:
quote: Doug Trumbull developed and promoted a 60 frames per second process called ShowScan about 30 years ago and that looked great. Unfortunately it was never adopted past theme park use.
And Pizza Parlors!
So, he's not even sure it will be released in 48fps digital, and I guess no idea what he is going to do with film. Could be a lot of hype over nothing.
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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 04-15-2011, 10:36 AM:
Yes, current digital projectors can run at 48 and 60 fps, which is why people like Cameron are pushing for adoption of these higher frame rates.
And these 48 and 60 fps files can be converted to run at 24 fps for both film and DCP. So they will be compatible with those theaters that haven't gone digital, assuming the releasing studios feel that the 24 fps segment of exhibitors remains large enough to be worth the expense.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-15-2011, 12:44 PM:
Hold on a minute there Tex...current projectors can only run up to 48fps with full cinema processing. Above that, the resolution comes down a bit. DCI only specified up to 48fps. Alternately, you can loose the "cinema processing" and go above at full resolution.
-Steve
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