Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: France Kills Silver Screen

This is topic France Kills Silver Screen in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-09-2012, 03:48 PM:

http://www.today3d.com/2012/03/france-kills-silver-screens-votes-out.html

quote:
France Kills The Silver Screens - votes out the usage of Passive 3D Cinema systems.
The CNC decided that all the theaters equipped with passive solution to remove all the silver screens in the 5 coming years.
All the theaters are required to apply the AFNOR standard that stipulate that the maximum light tolerance between center and angles of the screen cannot be more than 20%
With silver screen it is more than 50%. The CNC, CST and Directors guild consider that silver screens highly damage the quality of films in 2D and that is no more acceptable.
The exhibitors association has asked 5 years to proceed in order to amortize the investment.

CNC website:
I am pleased to announce this morning that we have an agreement, and I will therefore make the following decision: Based on the one hand the current situation of cinemas, financial and contractual commitments of the exhibitors but also secondly the need to ensure a quality projection in line with best
standards, the highest standards will apply in full to the quality of projection within five years.
Clearly, this means that for five years, standard NF S 27-001 will apply to all rooms, as well as the NF-S EXCEPT 27-100 as regards to the luminance. and in 5 years, all theater will fully have to comply with both standards including the luminance.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-09-2012, 04:11 PM:

What is the CNC and how did they get veto power over this stuff?

Google's best guess is the College of New Caledonia, followed by a manufacturer of woodworking tools, a Korean cosmetic company, more woodworking tools and a museum collection of insects...

And does this put Real D out of business in France? I believe that their contracts exceed five years, so where would that leave a French theatre with Real D?

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 03-09-2012, 04:24 PM:

CNC - Centre national du cinéma et de l'image animée

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 03-09-2012, 05:14 PM:

That's awesome because I truly HATE silver screens!

Posted by Tim Asten (Member # 4051) on 03-09-2012, 06:16 PM:

Vive la CNC! [beer]

Lets hope they'll influence the rest of the world.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-10-2012, 11:11 AM:

Why all of the hate for silver screens?

I can't hold myself out as any kind of an imaging expert, but I do know a bright, crisp image when I see one, and I see one when I walk into my auditorium. With a silver screen.

Are there problems that show up only on really large screens?

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-10-2012, 12:49 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
I can't hold myself out as any kind of an imaging expert, but I do know a bright, crisp image when I see one, and I see one when I walk into my auditorium. With a silver screen.

A bright image with a spot that is significantly brighter than everywhere else. You can try and reduce that effect all you want to make the brightness more uniform but getting it totally so is literally impossible with a silver screen.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-10-2012, 03:41 PM:

I spent 40 years removing silver screens and all "went back" in 12 months. Louis

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-10-2012, 05:36 PM:

Silver screens do more than just make the image less uniform...they also seemingly ruin image resolution...put a focus pattern up on a Silver and compare it it to a white...it is amazing the difference. Then there is the whole color part...Silver screens make the image appear metallic.

I hate silver screens. They are bad for movies. As for Real-D and the contracts...I'm sure the contract will be null and void since most every contract has a stipulation that the rule of law takes precedence (normally to the point that only the portion of the contract that is shown to be in violation of the law is void).

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-10-2012, 08:20 PM:

..and you can't clean them like you can with white ones. ...and they're more expensive to replace.

Isn't it true that silver screens needs more light than the white ones for foot lambert measurements?

(Don't we just 'love' 3D and what it did to the industry?)

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 03-10-2012, 09:50 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
I spent 40 years removing silver screens and all "went back" in 12 months. Louis

Huh? So you put the silver screens back in after taking them out?

Frank,
The presence of the silver screen for Real3d is one of the major reasons that most people on this forum like this system the least. At least that is what I have taken from the many discussions.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-11-2012, 12:08 AM:

Louis may have taken all of those silver screens out, but other installers put them back in.

Master Image (the spinning disc unit) also needs the silver screen.

Dolby is the one so far that uses the matte white screens since it uses a different process and eyeglass structure to match.

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 03-11-2012, 04:57 PM:

I saw a 6 story 15/70 Imax show on a silver screen recently.
It was MI4 in 2d and the silver screen side effects stood out even more! [Frown]

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 03-11-2012, 04:57 PM:

Xpand and Panavision will also work happily on a matt white screen, if you can get enough light on it in the first place.

Getting rid of silver screens is a big step forward [Smile]

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-11-2012, 07:39 PM:

Must be a real bummer for Gaumont/Pathé, the absolute market leader in France. They invested a lot of money into RealD and only recently announced a large deal for hundreds of new screens (although not all of them in France).

I guess, RealD will either come with a different solution, probably based on interference filters like Dolby/Infitec within the next 5 years. Or hopefully, 3D will be almost dead again and limited to a few special venues.

Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 03-11-2012, 10:22 PM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Must be a real bummer for Gaumont/Pathé, the absolute market leader in France. They invested a lot of money into RealD and only recently announced a large deal for hundreds of new screens (although not all of them in France).

I guess, RealD will either come with a different solution, probably based on interference filters like Dolby/Infitec within the next 5 years. Or hopefully, 3D will be almost dead again and limited to a few special venues.

Most exhibitors are investing nothing to go Real3d except the cost of a silver screen. Low cost to start is how they got into the theaters.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-12-2012, 01:12 PM:

quote: Mike Frese
Low cost to start is how they got into the theaters.

True. Yet, it's costing them in the end big time due to the lease agreements.

Dolby is still the cheapest in the long run.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-12-2012, 06:23 PM:

quote: Mike Frese
Most exhibitors are investing nothing to go Real3d except the cost of a silver screen. Low cost to start is how they got into the theaters.

I guess you're right, together with being the first on the market, that's probably the reason they're still the market leader.

Posted by Robert Schultz (Member # 2301) on 03-13-2012, 01:33 AM:

And the truth about silver screens comes out...

Standards are a good guideline but the choice should still be one of a free people.

Posted by Allan Young (Member # 6332) on 06-06-2012, 02:27 AM:

quote:
I saw a 6 story 15/70 Imax show on a silver screen recently.
It was MI4 in 2d and the silver screen side effects stood out even more!

Well, that sucks. With really shitty timing, the BFI London IMAX has announced the installation of a silver screen just a few weeks before The Dark Knight Rises is released. They're retaining 15/70 alongside a new IMAX digital projector but I may well have made my last visit.

Posted by Frederick Lanoy (Member # 5416) on 06-06-2012, 04:05 AM:

Don't worry, BFI will show "The dark Knight rises" in 70 mm :

" We are excited to announce that on Monday 11 June at 00:01 (Sunday midnight/Monday morning), tickets for The Dark Knight Rises – The IMAX Experience will be going on sale at BFI IMAX. We will be the only cinema in London showing The Dark Knight Rises in a 15/70mm IMAX DMR film print . The film will feature about 55 minutes of footage shot on IMAX cameras, filling the entire BFI IMAX screen"

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 06-06-2012, 06:45 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Dolby is still the cheapest in the long run.

Panastereo's 3d system seems to be the cheapest by far, Active Shutter glasses that can be washes in a commercial dish washer, glasses cost similar to Dolby, no need for a new screen. Inexpensive electronics in the projection room.

Posted by Allan Young (Member # 6332) on 06-06-2012, 07:01 AM:

quote: Frederick Lanoy
Don't worry, BFI will show "The dark Knight rises" in 70 mm

Yes, they will. But on a silver screen.

Posted by Tim Asten (Member # 4051) on 06-07-2012, 08:31 AM:

I saw MI4 at the BFI London and was underwhelmed. The silver screen they have there already was hotspotting badly, especially the IMAX scenes, and the resolution did not seem to be there either. Also the flicker & strobing on movement spoiled the realism. I used to love IMAX and I am sure it was better than this. I may not bother with TDKR if they are putting in another silver screen.

Posted by Bob Bregazzi (Member # 5623) on 06-07-2012, 09:20 AM:

by all accounts odeon cinemas have aquired the bfi imax, which is being looked into by the office of fair trading.
if odeon do get their grubby paws on it, it'll be totally ruined like the rest of their circuit.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-07-2012, 11:17 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
What is the CNC and how did they get veto power over this stuff?

I don't want to get into the realms of politics, and so the following is a simple statement of fact as I understand it: basically, the French government has, continuously since the 1920s, played a very big role in its film industry. It started with the "contingentement" laws in, IIRC, 1929, which limited the proportion of foreign films that could play on French screens (similar laws were passed throughout western Europe at around the same time). In 1946 the CNC (originally called the Centre national de la cinématographie) was formed - it was similar in idea to the British Film Institute, but unlike the BFI it had legal teeth with which to regulate the industry in various ways. In the late '40s and '50s, figures such as Henri Langlois and André Malraux campaigned for the film industry in France to be seen more as a kind of state-run symbol of national prestige than business pure and simple, and the idea stuck. The Avance sur recettes system, started in 1959, basically charged a tax on all theatre admissions which went into a fund to loan money to filmmakers. If their films made a profit, they paid back the loan: if they didn't, they didn't have to.

Jumping forward, the CNC played a big part in the 1984 GATT negotiations, getting involved in a huge argument with the MPAA over the issue as to whether films should be regarded as any other internationally traded product (which would have meant France giving up the right to charge import tariffs on them) or a culturaly protected product (giving France the right to use import tariffs to protect its domestic film industry). David Puttnam's book The Undeclared War makes for a fascinating read on this episode.

The basic answer to Frank's question is that along the way, the CNC picked up the power to set and enforce technical standards in at least some of France's theatres; though I'm not sure if this applies to all of them or what the criteria are.

Posted by Peter Howard (Member # 3491) on 07-04-2012, 10:49 PM:

quote: Cameron Glendinning
Panastereo's 3d system seems to be the cheapest by far, Active Shutter glasses that can be washes in a commercial dish washer, glasses cost similar to Dolby, no need for a new screen. Inexpensive electronics in the projection room.

Absolutely. We were Ray's first customers (actually, we were partners in arranging the components) and we've had no problems whatsoever. [Smile]

Low cost, no ongoing charges aside from changing the 25c batteries about every 6 months or so.