This is topic The Master (2012) 70mm prints? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 08-09-2012, 07:12 AM:
 
Anyone see this sneak screening? I believe it was on 70mm-5 perf. Can anyone confirm that 70mm DTS prints have been made?

http://screenrant.com/the-master-movie-reviews-previews/

Paul Thomas Anderson’s followup to There Will Be Blood, The Master, was recently bumped up to a September start date for its awards-contending theatrical run. However, Santa Monica residents who attended last Friday’s screening of Stanley Kubrick’s The Shining were treated to an even earlier look at Anderson’s latest (which was the surprise second half of a double-feature).

The Master takes inspiration from the life of Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, but appears to use those biographical elements as a stepping stone for a powerful tale that’s rich in symbolism and looks/sounds like a companion piece to There Will Be Blood. Trailers for The Master tease arresting performances from Joaquin Phoenix and Philip Seymour Hoffman (also Amy Adams, to a lesser degree) – but do early reactions and reviews back that assessment?
 

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Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 08-09-2012, 11:31 AM:
 
what an odd subject matter/plot to film in 70mm - anyhoo...from what I've heard P.T Anderson is pushing the Weinstein Co. to print up a few 70mm prints for theatrical distribution.
 

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Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 08-09-2012, 02:55 PM:
 
PTA's official info site http://cigsandredvines.blogspot.com/ pretty much confirms there is at least ONE 70mm print that will be making the festival rounds.

The site has a whole section on the 70mm aspect of this release pleading with people to submit names of cinemas that still are known to be able to show 5/70mm: http://cigsandredvines.blogspot.com/2012/08/help-pta-show-master-in-70mm-in-your.html
 

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Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 08-09-2012, 03:45 PM:
 
Wow!!
 

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Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 08-14-2012, 06:24 PM:
 
I can confirm that at least one 70mm print with a Datasat Digital Sound track has been made (that's what screened at the Aero the other night). It's a gorgeous print, too.
 

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Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 08-14-2012, 11:51 PM:
 
so, does the audio feature a five-across channel mix
 

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Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 08-15-2012, 01:23 AM:
 
I wish! But no, it's a standard 5.1 mix.
 

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Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 08-15-2012, 08:49 AM:
 
Is it known whether the print has been struck from a photochemical master (ie OCN>IP>print or something like that), or from a DI film-out?
 

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Posted by Bob Bregazzi (Member # 5623) on 08-15-2012, 10:45 AM:
 
"The Master" was recently shown at BAFTA, London, in 70mm (1.85:1) and DTS sound.
 

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Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 08-15-2012, 12:46 PM:
 
Also playing the Alamo Drafthouse this September during their 70mm festival.

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2012/alamoscope/index.htm
 

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Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 08-15-2012, 01:42 PM:
 
It's a photochemical print, although to be honest I'm not sure if there's an IN/IP in between the camera neg and release print, or if they did an answer print straight off the cut negative. Definitely not from a DI for the 70mm print. Not sure about the 35mm.

The DCPs will be 4k.
 

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Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 08-17-2012, 02:05 PM:
 
The Master will be playing in 70mm at the Toronto International Film Festival, at the Light Box Theatre this September.
 

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Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 08-17-2012, 04:57 PM:
 
I read that not all 100% of the movie was shot 5/65mm so there would have had to be a blowup IN for the 35mm stuff.
 

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Posted by Shawn M. Martin (Member # 6762) on 08-23-2012, 06:44 PM:
 
The AFI Silver in Silver Spring, MD will have it in 70mm on evenings and weekends. Weekday matinees will be 35mm.

http://www.afi.com/silver/films/2012/v9i4/themaster.aspx
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-23-2012, 08:28 PM:
 
Why in the world would their weekday matinees be 35mm??? Are the professional 70mm operators not available during weekday matinees and they are doing the RIGHT thing by NOT letting the 35mm people handle the 70mm print?
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-23-2012, 08:50 PM:
 
They don't run theatre #1 for matinées on the weekdays...just the smaller theatres. Personally, I would recommend that they run theatre #1 for the run and skip the 35mm.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-23-2012, 11:11 PM:
 
I was asked to cut 1.85 70mm plates for this earlier this week at the Castro SF. Took forever due to keystone.

I'm informed every 70mm engagement will require plates despite it's hard matted 1.85.

Just when you thought film was gone it comes back bigger than ever.
 

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Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 08-23-2012, 11:46 PM:
 
Why would he shoot in 70mm at 1.85.1 ?
Strange...
 

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Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 08-24-2012, 12:54 AM:
 
He only shot a portion of the film in 70mm, just as Chris Nolan only shot a portion of Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises in 15/70.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-24-2012, 06:03 AM:
 
Fortunately, the AFI/Silver always had 70mm 1.85 plates (planned for that in advance) and have used them for such titles as Playtime.

Aspect ratio and film format have nothing to do with each other. There is no reason one can not shoot in 65mm with a ratio of 1.85 or 1.37 or whatever. Sir David Lean was going to shoot Nostromo in 65mm with a 1.85 ratio too. It is all a matter of what the desired look of the image and how they were going to compose the frame. Certainly, Sir David Lean knew how to shoot in "Scope" if thought that would be the better format.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-24-2012, 06:46 AM:
 
Will there be any mag prints, are are all of them DTS?
 

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Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 08-24-2012, 10:36 AM:
 
If 1.85.1 is Paul Thomas Andersons preferred choice than great but it seems strange because all his other movies shot on 35mm were scope.
He clearly wants to have his film shown in 70mm and does not mind wasting part of the 70mm frame.
Of all his films it's this one he chose to shoot flat and some 70mm to boot.
Nothing wrong with it but it makes me wonder why?
 

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Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 08-24-2012, 01:39 PM:
 
http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/movies/article/1246324--size-matters-to-p-t-anderson-christopher-nolan-howell



To read some of the early reviews for The Master, Paul Thomas Anderson’s TIFF-bound film of primal emotions, you’d almost think a love affair had erupted.

The most ardent raves aren’t necessarily for Anderson, although he has his legions of admirers, or for his epic film, which stars Joaquin Phoenix, Philip Seymour Hoffman and Amy Adams in roles that reportedly beckon awards attention.

The valentines are for Anderson’s provocative use of honest-to-gosh celluloid film, blown up to 70mm frame size instead of the standard 35mm.

“The effect is cumulative, and ultimately shattering,” writes Cameron Bailey, TIFF’s artistic director, in the festival’s program book. (The Master is scheduled to make its official North American debut at the fest, Sept. 7 at Toronto’s Princess of Wales theatre.)

Michael Phillips, movie critic for the Chicago Tribune, caught a sneak preview of The Master last week, and wrote that the 70mm film experience was better than “the latest in digital filmmaking or digital projection or digital anything. This was celluloid, the good old stuff.”

These reactions are typical, recalling the affection rock fans hold for the warmer sound of vinyl LPs over digital CDs. But the mad love just seems to have come out of the blue.

Anderson is choosing 70mm and celluloid at a time when the movie industry is going the other way, shooting and exhibiting digitally and showing films on screens that run as small as iPhones. Celluloid is expected to vanish from North American multiplexes as early as next year, making old-style film extinct for all but the most ardent of cinephiles and specialty theatres like Toronto’s TIFF Bell Lightbox.

Whether intended or not, California’s Anderson is helping to lead the charge back to embrace film, and in as big a format as possible. He has an ally in Britain’s Christopher Nolan, the director of The Dark Knight Rises, who shot nearly half of his new Batman movie on IMAX film, a variant of 70mm.

Is it genuine affection by Anderson for a fading medium, or a raised digit towards the digital revolution?

It’s probably a bit of both — Anderson hasn’t really said — but affection would seem the more likely motivator. Anderson loves the visual freedoms of cinema, and he’s an unabashed enthusiast for such big-screen visionaries as Terrence Malick and the late Stanley Kubrick.

“Paul is one of the last directors still shooting on film,” says Cory Everett, who along with friend C.J. Wallis runs an authoritative Anderson fan blog called Cigarettes & Red Vines.

“He loves film, he’s passionate about it and he doesn’t appear willing to sacrifice the quality of the image for the convenience of shooting digitally. And there is no better quality filmed image than 70mm. It’s truly breathtaking and that has nothing to do with the size of the screen. The image is just noticeably sharper than 35mm.”

Jesse Wente, the head of film programs at TIFF Bell Lightbox, thinks the 70mm revival is part of an effort by filmmakers, studios and exhibitors to keep the theatrical experience special.

“I think it’s much in the same way as we’ve seen a revived interest in 3D, although on a somewhat lesser scale,” Wente says.

“There’s such pressure on the theatrical experience, the in-cinema experience, just from all the different formats that are out there. One way to distinguish it is to have a format that cannot be replicated on any other medium. And one cannot have 70mm at home.”

The Lightbox has been able to surf the wave, since it is equipped to handle almost any movie format in existence, including 70mm. Since the Lightbox opened in the fall of 2010, programmers have found strong audience appeal for 70mm presentations of such classics as Kubrick’s Spartacus and 2001: A Space Odyssey, David Lean’s Lawrence of Arabia and Jacques Tati’s Playtime. The Lightbox will finish its summer season with 70mm screenings Aug. 31-Sept. 2 of Playtime. The fall will bring 70mm screenings of Ron Fricke’s visual voyage Samsara at the venue, planned for October.

Toronto is becoming a stronghold of 70mm cinema, Wente says, both by accident and design. The old York Cinemas on Eglinton Ave. used to feature many 70mm screenings, and the prints ended up in the hands of TIFF.

“Many of those prints stuck around, and all of them are in surprisingly good shape. So when we did Spartacus, that was the same print that closed the York Cinemas back then. Because we have a real theatrical 70mm venue, it has helped sustain 70mm as a practical current theatrical medium.”

There’s real demand out there for a 70mm film, and a growing belief that large-format celluloid is superior to large-format digital productions, even digital projections shown on giant IMAX screens or in 3D.

There’s also a sense with 70mm of continuing a big-screen tradition that actually dates back to early experiments in the 1890s, the dawn of film.

“People want to see it and I love programming it,” Wente said.

“We try to do it a couple times a year. Because of the technical requirements it takes some planning, and you always want to pick the right movie. There are only so many of them out there, and maybe that’s part of the attraction.”

A 70mm primer on Cigarettes & Red Vines notes that the last feature film to be shot entirely on 70mm celluloid, prior to The Master, was Kenneth Branagh’s Hamlet in 1996.

That’s 16 years ago. It’s hard to say whether any movies will be shot in 70mm 16 years from now, or even if celluloid motion pictures will still exist outside of museums or a handful of arthouses.

The future will bring what it does, as it always does. But for the moment, movie lovers are reveling big-time in connecting with the past.

Follow on Twitter: @peterhowellfilm
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-24-2012, 03:25 PM:
 
If a 70mm print can be made available to Consolidated Kahala #1 here in Honolulu, that will be fantastic. The house is Hawaii's only remaining 70mm theatre and will be the perfect venue for THE MASTER because it has a DTS processor and the theatre complex plays art as well as mainstream first run movies.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 08-24-2012, 03:26 PM:
 
Scott - there are no mag prints, all of the 70mm prints are using Datasat Digital Sound.
 

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Posted by Michael Marini (Member # 3490) on 08-24-2012, 06:10 PM:
 
We have rentals in theatre one during the day that we already booked.
 

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Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 08-26-2012, 07:08 AM:
 

quote:

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24 Aug 2012
Toronto Star

The Lightbox has been able to surf the wave, since it is equipped to handle almost any movie format in existence, including 70mm. Since the Lightbox opened in the fall of 2010, programmers have found strong audience appeal for 70mm presentations of such classics as Kubrick’s Spartacus and 2001: A Space Odyssey, David Lean’s Lawrence of Arabia and Jacques Tati’s Playtime. The Lightbox will finish its summer season with 70mm screenings Aug. 31Sept. 2 of Playtime. The fall will bring 70mm screenings of Ron Fricke’s visual voyage Samsara at the venue, planned for October.

Follow on Twitter: @peterhowellfilm

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quote: Paul Gordon

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TIFF says they will be playing Samsara in 70mm? did they make 70mm prints? I thought only 35mm and 4K

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quote: Samsara website posted:

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Note from Mark Magidson on 70mm film, Digital Projection, and Samsara
August 23, 2012

All three of the films Ron and I have made have been photographed in 70mm (65mm negative), a process that has become more and more difficult as time has gone by for our kind of filmmaking due to security issues and the need to move film stock in and out of so many locations without it being X-rayed. We have employed this rarely used format because we have no actors or dialogue in our films, image is the main character. 70mm brings an unsurpassed emotional impact to the viewing experience. There is a beauty, immediacy, and level of detail within imagery captured in this venerable wide-screen format that is unique, and there is still no form of image capture that compares to 65mm negative. In addition there have been significant advances in film stocks with finer grain structure since the time we filmed BARAKA 20 years ago. When you’re going to 25 countries, you need to bring back the imagery in a format that is going to stand the test of time. All the outputs, from theatrical DCP, 35mm film prints, Blu-ray, DVD, and other digital formats will flow downstream from that foundation.

We have chosen to output SAMSARA to DCP for digital projection rather than creating 70mm film prints this time. There are many reasons for this, but the bottom line is we believe a digital output from the high res scan of our film negative yields the best possible viewing experience. It is a combination of using a 50-year-old camera system and cutting-edge digital technology that works for our kind of filmmaking. When we produced the Baraka Blu-ray in 2008, we were amazed at the level of detail that we obtained by undertaking an arduous, frame-by-frame, high-resolution scanning process at 8K resolution on Fotokem’s renowned Bigfoot scanner. The 8K file for the whole film came in at a massive size, in excess of 30 Terabytes. Dropping the output down to Blu-ray resolution, we were able to retain a level of detail that was beyond our wildest expectations, and the Baraka Blu-ray has been widely regarded as a reference-point disc for home viewing. It became clear that the benefits of capturing high-resolution imagery on the large 65mm negative were embedded in the digital file.

Using this approach in SAMSARA, but this time outputting to DCP for theatrical exhibition, was a great way to go for us, and the conversion of theaters to digital, and now 4K projection has been timely. We were also able to refine the imagery in the digital realm in a way we could not have done in film. We are not an effects film but we were able to do things like remove unwanted artifacts in shots that otherwise would have been rendered NG, such as a pixelated bird here or there in our time-lapse shots, negative scratches, or smooth bumps in some of the aerials. There are other benefits. Every theater gets a perfect first generation viewing "print". The reality of theatrical distribution is that film prints are inevitably scratched or damaged, get dirty, and experience widely variable projection conditions. Because there is not a mechanical component to film passing through a gate the image has a steadiness digitally that we do not get with film projection. Portraits, "eyeballs", as we call them, are such an important component of the content in SAMSARA. The resolution and fine detail from the scanned 65mm negative combined with the perfectly steady projection via DCP provides stunning intimacy.

Having produced three 70mm films over the last 25 years, two of them feature length, it is a new experience to bring SAMSARA out this way. I know there are many film lovers and purists, we are among them. I would simply say have a look at SAMSARA if you can on a big screen with a good bright digitally projected image and see what you think for yourself.

Mark Magidson
Producer/Co-writer/Co-editor/SAMSARA

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-26-2012, 02:17 PM:
 
While I would agree that for the masses, 4K DCP offers a lot...but I would disagree that 4K DCP has the potential to capture the 65mm negative like the way a 70mm print can. Since they are not a CGI type film, they would not suffer the processes of going in and out of digital. If they are so convinced...prove it...strike a few 70mm prints and let people choose. 4K is 35mm resolution, not 70mm.
 

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Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 08-26-2012, 02:54 PM:
 
Yes I keep hoping they will change their minds about striking some prints.
I hope they are taking note of The Master not only having 70mm prints struck but the director is actively seeking out venues that are still equipped to run 70mm!
Then you have Chris Nolans efforts and Raiders Of The Lost Ark getting some Imax prints I hope...
This is a good time to have some good prints shown off in good venues.
 

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Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 08-27-2012, 02:08 PM:
 
How many times does it have to be said that Raiders is an IMAX digital release only, including a direct quote from an IMAX rep posted in the "Raiders in IMAX" thread on this board, before it is accepted that Raiders is not going to have any 15/70 prints?
 

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Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 08-27-2012, 02:42 PM:
 
We will need a few more confirmations from you Edward.
Spielberg said in some of the first interviews that some 15/70 prints would be struck?
I swear he did! Perhaps he misspoke?

By the way,in all of Canada we are only getting 2 Imax digital engagements so far...
 

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Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 08-27-2012, 05:01 PM:
 
You can also tell there will be no commercial 15/70 playdates of Raiders since tickets have been on sale for a couple weeks now and not one 15/70-only house has it booked. The only 15/70-capable houses that will be playing it are those that also have IMAX digital projection in that booth.
 

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Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 08-27-2012, 08:58 PM:
 
Is this to say that they've never changed their minds before? Hmmm...
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 08-27-2012, 09:22 PM:
 

quote: Victor Liorentas

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Anderson is choosing 70mm and celluloid at a time when the movie industry is going the other way, shooting and exhibiting digitally and showing films on screens that run as small as iPhones.

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quote: The Star posted:

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Anderson is choosing 70mm and celluloid at a time when the movie industry is going the other way, shooting and exhibiting digitally and showing films on screens that run as small as iPhones.

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Yes, I for one am looking forward to watching Samsara on my phone:


 

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Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 08-28-2012, 05:11 PM:
 
^ that's not funny...


 

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Posted by Brian D. Whitish (Member # 825) on 08-28-2012, 06:05 PM:
 
Seattle Cinerama will be running The Master in 70mm.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-28-2012, 11:30 PM:
 

quote: Jonathan Goeldner

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^ that's not funny...

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Huh? It's got a RETINA SCREEN!!!
 

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Posted by Eric Carter (Member # 1392) on 08-29-2012, 02:31 PM:
 
The Seattle Cinerama will be presenting THE MASTER in 70mm beginning 9/21.

Cinerama Dome in Hollywood commences their 70mm engagement on 9/14.
 

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Posted by Jeff Kane (Member # 6372) on 08-30-2012, 02:48 PM:
 
Alamo Drafthouse's Ritz in Austin will have The Master in 70mm 9/21-9/23.
 

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Posted by Eric Carter (Member # 1392) on 09-01-2012, 04:39 PM:
 
THE MASTER will play at the Ziegfeld in New York in 70mm.
 

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Posted by Michael Marini (Member # 3490) on 09-04-2012, 06:06 PM:
 
User Reviews

The Master in action.
8 August 2012 | by stingil (Los Angeles USA) – See all my reviews
I was fortunate enough to see this film much earlier than most. To me it seems like Anderson is really hitting his stride with this one. It was odd to me that upon exiting the theater the thing that I wondered about most of all is what the hell is he going to do next!

The Master is not an easy movie to sit through, and at times you don't even know what the movie wants. But then you realize that the movie doesn't want anything. All it asks is for you to observe. More so than his earlier films, "The Master" and "There Will Be Blood" really venture into the realm of the film as being a purely cinematic presentation of a life. Anderson doesn't pass judgment or any point of view, he merely stretches the canvas which allows his characters to speak for themselves.

Yes, there is a beginning, middle and an end, but is there? Do we really have a sense of catharsis at the end of "There Will Be Blood"? or do we simply understand "man" a little better?

Anderson insisted, as I'm sure he would say the same for this film, that "There Will Be Blood" wasn't a metaphor for anything. It was what it was. No hidden meaning, no sophisticated and often formulaic subtext. It's simply man. As Hoffman's character says in the trailer for "The Master" - "But above all, I am a man".

The movie deals with an interesting idea of the leader vs. the soldier, master vs. slave. It breaks down the anatomy of a relationship so you may interpret it in any way you'd like.

It's beautifully shot on 65/70mm film which is the way I saw it and the way I recommend for you to see it if you get a chance to. Feels almost as if Anderson is giving the finger to the digital revolution by shooting his film on a resolution so high that digital can only dream of getting there in about ten years or so.

The acting and the dialog is superb as you'd expect. Phoenix and Hoffman are on a different level here, especially Phoenix in a role of a life time. There are definitely times in this film that he completely disappears into that role. There is also some great supporting work from Laura Dern and others.

It would be difficult to place this film in his body of work. More than anything it feels like the natural continuation of what he started with "There Will Be Blood". Not to say that he will continue on this path but just that this is definitely a more narrowly focused film than some of his earlier ensemble work.

I found it to be less engaging than some of his other work and yet there was never a dull moment. You're always on your toes, trying to understand what's going on and where the movie is leading you.

It really is simply, just like man, a fascinating piece of work.
 

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Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 09-12-2012, 05:44 AM:
 

quote: Eric Carter

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THE MASTER will play at the Ziegfeld in New York in 70mm

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quote: Michael Marini

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It's beautifully shot on 65/70mm film which is the way I saw it and the way I recommend for you to see it if you get a chance to. Feels almost as if Anderson is giving the finger to the digital revolution by shooting his film on a resolution so high that digital can only dream of getting there in about ten years or so.

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quote: Victor Liorentas

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Weinstein plans to expand "The Master" to roughly half of the nation's 70mm-capable screens -- as well as eventually widening to potentially thousands of digital theaters. But the format carries a hefty pricetag of about $13,000 per print -- more than 10 times the average print fee. Ideally, ticket sales will help offset the added cost of prints, and the Weinstein Co. is singling out 70mm in its print advertising.

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Some encouragement reading this and when I enquired about 70mm Screenings here in the UK, there are NO 70mm Prints being shipped over, dispite it was screened at BAFTA in 70mm a few months ago!.
 

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Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 09-19-2012, 06:43 AM:
 
Yes, they are getting a projectionist for Lincoln Square.
 

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Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 09-19-2012, 07:10 AM:
 
Anyone know if Canada will get any 70mm prints? I know TIFF played a 70mm print, who's even the distributor in Canada?
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-19-2012, 07:28 AM:
 
I believe it is E-one
 

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Posted by Paul Gordon (Member # 3320) on 09-19-2012, 08:17 AM:
 
Your right they also have Samsara.
 

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Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 09-19-2012, 01:57 PM:
 
I was told it opens in 70mm Friday at the Varsity in Toronto, but I'm not seeing it advertised as such on their website.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-20-2012, 11:13 AM:
 
It is listed on the theatres website
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-20-2012, 07:42 PM:
 
I had just learned Consolidated's Kahala #1 is no longer a 70mm house. THE MASTER howevery will play in one of the other auditoriums at that complex in 35mm starting tomorrow.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 09-21-2012, 07:11 AM:
 
What is 70MM?
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-21-2012, 08:51 AM:
 
Richard asked what is 70mm it something heavy that hurts ones back
 

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Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 09-21-2012, 10:51 AM:
 
Lifting a reel is like picking up a tire.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 09-21-2012, 11:06 AM:
 
It's just most of us are getting a bit older. And we are out of practice in lifting any kind of reels much less 70mm ones.

I like the tire analogy.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-21-2012, 10:19 PM:
 
There is nothing like the "thwack" sound of 70mm hitting the rewind bench.
 

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Posted by Tom Mundell (Member # 4555) on 09-26-2012, 09:59 AM:
 
I saw The Master this past weekend in 70mm at the AFI Silver theater. While the picture was excellent, there was an oddity with the sound: every even numbered reel was much lower in volume compared to the odd numbered ones (ie. reel 1 sounded fine, but reel 2 was very soft and so on). What can cause that? I'm assuming they were running reel to reel, but even in that case wouldn't both projectors be using the same sound processor/amplifiers? What sound format(s) are on the 70mm prints of this, I'm guessing DTS was probably being used?
 

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Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 09-26-2012, 10:51 AM:
 
^ but doesn't DTS run off an audio disc? - the sound should be constant in it's volume level .. right?
 

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Posted by Tom Mundell (Member # 4555) on 09-26-2012, 11:22 AM:
 
Yes, that's what I thought, DTS is stored on CD; that's why I'm confused as to how that happened. Maybe the DTS reader was failing on one projector or DTS was not the format being used?
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 09-26-2012, 11:30 AM:
 
Some of the "Master" installations use a dual player system, one as back up to the other.

If the B chain settings of each player are not identical this would explain it.

I saw it last week on just such a system and did not notice such a drop.

I keep waiting for Stu or someone to post a movie review.
 

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Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 09-26-2012, 02:06 PM:
 
Kicking this to tech support here at Datasat - definitely the sound levels should be even from reel to reel, and a failing timecode reader would manifest as audio dropouts, not reduced level.
 

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Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 09-26-2012, 05:37 PM:
 

quote: Tom Mundell

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Maybe the DTS reader was failing on one projector or DTS was not the format being used?

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quote: Tom Mundell

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I saw The Master this past weekend in 70mm at the AFI Silver theater. While the picture was excellent, there was an oddity with the sound: every even numbered reel was much lower in volume compared to the odd numbered ones (ie. reel 1 sounded fine, but reel 2 was very soft and so on).

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quote: Sam D. Chavez

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Some of the "Master" installations use a dual player system, one as back up to the other. If the B chain settings of each player are not identical this would explain it.

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Having setup and ran many dts70 prints, Daniel and Jock's post above are definitely correct. If you have sound, you ARE hearing dts audio. Likewise a failing reader would mean a dropout to NO sound.

Now in Sam's example above (the preferred method) there are 2 readers on top of the projector (4 readers total for a changeover setup). Each reader goes to its own player, but as changeover dts systems use a "Y" cable, one of the two players should be able to be completely powered off and the show would run just fine...meaning not just play the odd or even numbered reels.

The only way to create such an issue would be if the AFI didn't have 4 readers total and didn't use the "Y" cables (which I find hard to believe). It would also mean that one of the two players had their output gains out of alignment from the other (Sam's theory).

It definitely sounds like a mastering issue...but I also have a hard time believing that got past the QC. It is even hard to believe that since the 35mm prints use the exact same dts discs.

Oh well. We can all just blame Guttag.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-26-2012, 10:20 PM:
 
I think you are overlooking the obvious (particularly Sam) if you know they have a CP200 sound processor...somebody bumped the volume knob on the CAT204 remote for one of the machines and the operator didn't notice it.

As to the set up...the 70mm projectors share the same DTS XD10 processor.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 09-26-2012, 10:26 PM:
 
"My" local install was one projector with AW3 platter and one reader, two DTS 6D players.

Steve may be assuming there are two projectors and two Cat. No. 204 remotes; one with each projector.

Totally plausible explanation if there are two remotes.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-26-2012, 11:16 PM:
 
I have no doubt that Steve is correct here, but there is another possibility that could create thie issue:

Two projectors, two readers on each. Reader "A" on each machine drives DTS processor "1" and reader "B" drives DTS processor "2." If reader "B" on projector "1" is bad and reader "A" on projector 2 is also bad (or vice-versa), and the B-chain alignment differs between the DTS processors, the same problem could result. Yes, this is a weird, freakish possiblity, but it could hapen.

How does the DTS failover logic work? Does it always prefer one DTS processor and use that signal if it is good, or does it always use the "current" processor and only switch to the other one if the output fails? In other words, suppose there are two readers and two processors; if reader "A" on projector 1 is good and reader "A" on projector 2 is bad, will the DTS output switch at every changeover, or will it only change after the first changeover and stay with processor "2" for the rest of the show?
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-26-2012, 11:43 PM:
 
Steve, are you saying the AFI doesn't have redundancy in their dts70 shows???
 

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Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 09-27-2012, 02:51 AM:
 
In other news, I've just got word that the film's Australian distributor has had enough of our nagging them and finally confirmed us for a week-long season of THE MASTER in 70mm, starting December 16.

As far as I know, this will be the first new film to receive a 70mm release (of any scale) in Australia since TITANIC.

I suppose we'd better dust off the DTS kit
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-27-2012, 04:42 AM:
 
I only picked on Sam because the CP200 and CAT204s are definitely in his era of Dolby employment.

The AFI/Silver has CAT204s at each film machine in Theatre #1

http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/picview.php?id=4769&category=1

As to DTS redundancy...there are two XD10 units...one is normally for 1/2 and the other for 3/4 and there is a spare reader on-site for both 35mm and 70mm. There is NOT a failsafe board but the cables were made in the rack for quick moving between the two DTS units and the DB9s on the readers are on thumbscrews for quick change out.

Having multiple CAT204s are a blessing and a nuisance. They are blessing because you can preset levels between Non-Sync, previews and feature. Nuisance due to the example brought up in this thread. At the Uptown, I always locked out the faders on the CAT204s for premieres just because of the ease of that knob getting knocked (happened to me once in 1982). This also ensures that there is ONE fader that once the studio is happy with the sound...it stays there. I've also noticed that "7" varies with each CAT204 and will often have to rotate the pots to get them all to agree on what "7" is.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 09-27-2012, 10:21 AM:
 
No offense taken. It's a rare treat these days to joust with Steve.

Agree totally on the 204 calibration issue.

The XD10 does not absolutely require the redundancy of the second unit for 70mm but the earlier DTS 6D definitely does.

The reason, for those not familiar with the issue, is the earlier units play back the sound directly off the CD ROM. On the XD10 the audio is "ingested" onto the the internal hard drive and played back from there.

The issue of reversion does not exist in 35mm due to the analog audio soundtrack.
 

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Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 09-27-2012, 01:31 PM:
 
Shame the Beverly Center isn't still around. Both upstairs projectors were 70mm capable, but they still had magheads and, in the case of House 1, what I believe was DTS 6D Unit #1.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 09-27-2012, 03:43 PM:
 

quote: Edward Havens

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Shame the Beverly Center isn't still around.

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quote: Sam D. Chavez

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The XD10 does not absolutely require the redundancy of the second unit for 70mm but the earlier DTS 6D definitely does.

The reason, for those not familiar with the issue, is the earlier units play back the sound directly off the CD ROM. On the XD10 the audio is "ingested" onto the the internal hard drive and played back from there.

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My turn to play Guttag, Sam. You would be correct about how the different dts units produce their sound, but you would be incorrect that just because the XD10 plays from a hard drive that it doesn't need a backup. I've had more failures from XD10s than dts6-Ds.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 09-27-2012, 05:54 PM:
 
The question Then is why the XD10 has more dropouts than the DTS 6D.

I have not played much with DTS over the years due to my focus during my Dolby years at beating the stuffing out of them with SR.D.

Ultimately the popularity of DTS declined for a number of reasons, all well known.

For whatever reason the director of "Master" decreed either playback with one XD10 or 2 6D's, even to providing the XD10 to those screens. Perhaps he was misinformed.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-28-2012, 02:33 AM:
 
Most of the XD10 issues are at boot-up. The big one is "oops, I've dumped everything right down to the operating system!"

That being said, with the age of the dts6-d units (and the dts6 players), the odds are was that the director feared the CD drives would be a problem. Well, most XD10s are more than 3 years old and 3 years is the typical reliable lifespan of a hard drive too.

Personally, I would never run dts70 without a failsafe machine. When I ran Titanic at the GCC Northpark, I setup 3 machines in the rack just to make DAMN sure. Then again that was a 1200 seat auditorium that frequently sold out. In my screening room I only run with one backup.

So to test your SRD knowledge, can you tell me why different DA20s, CP500s and CP650s track with different error rates with the same print on the same projector through the same reader?
 

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Posted by Oliver Pasch (Member # 1335) on 09-28-2012, 05:50 AM:
 
My apologies, maybe I've missed this, but can anyone confirm the digital version to be a 4K DCP?

Thanks

Oliver
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 09-28-2012, 10:06 AM:
 
Brad,

As to the variable error rates, I can think of all sorts of possibilities but I don't think there is only one single reason, anymore than why most cars can't show correct speedometer readings.

There was a definite difference with the 650 vs. 500 where the 650 read lower. Turned out to be how that bit of software was doing the math.
 

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Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 10-03-2012, 10:41 AM:
 
I saw 'The Master' last night at the AFI Silver, and I have to say, even in sitting in the middle, I didn't hear any dropouts, in fact I thought the volume level was a bit extreme, whenever someone got into a screaming fit it was a bit much - the treble seemed way too shrill.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 10-16-2012, 07:06 PM:
 
One of the 70MM prints playing Los Angeles had to be replaced because it got scratched.
 

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Posted by Brian D. Whitish (Member # 825) on 10-17-2012, 01:52 AM:
 
Which theater in LA replaced their print?
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 10-17-2012, 08:48 AM:
 
I think it was Landmark's The Landmark Cinemas. Cause the other location playing the film in 70MM is the Cinerama Dome / Arclight Complex.
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 10-17-2012, 02:56 PM:
 
Oliver,
The DCP was 4K.
 

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Posted by Tim Asten (Member # 4051) on 10-18-2012, 12:19 PM:
 
It is playing in 70mm in the UK at the Odeon West End from the 2nd of November.
 

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Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 10-18-2012, 02:11 PM:
 
I was very excited when I found out about this a while back as my office is round the back of OWE, not really in a position to share work stuff on here so glad someone posted about it! If anyone's making the trip give me a buzz and I'll pop down to say hello!
 

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Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 11-02-2012, 06:48 PM:
 
Just saw a poster in Halifax railway station advertising The Master in 70mm at Odeon West End. (good if you want a 4 hour train ride)

So shall I ask the obvious question that everyone in the north of england is probably asking right now, why isn't the National Media Museum getting a 70mm copy?

Perfectly good 70mm projetor sitting in Pictureville doing nothing much at the moment right now.
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 11-02-2012, 11:37 PM:
 
If the DCP of THE MASTER is 4k, was the original 65mm negative scanned in 8k first like SAMSARA was?

-Claude
 

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