Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: How to screw up a bill changer

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-01-2012, 01:50 PM:

Just an evil thought... nothing that one would actually do but I'm just pissed off and I want to get some venom out of my system.

There's a vending machine with a bill changer that never works. When I'm thirsty for a cold drink, the thing never works. You put a bill in and, at best, it spits the bill out again. Half the time, it gets caught part way out.

It's been broken for months and months. They never fix it. The majority of people use their dining hall card in the reader so they don't seem to have reason to fix it.

The question is strictly Gedanken, something you think about but never actually do. (Like Schroedinger's cat.)

They'll never fix it unless it's completely broke.

So, what's a good way to totally bung up a bill changer so they'll have to replace it?

I have an idea. What if you cut a piece of Tyvek the size of a dollar bill and coated it with Super Glue?

The device would draw in the fake bill and get stuck, forcing the repair.

Gee! I'm starting to feel better already! [evil]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-01-2012, 09:33 PM:

Just cut the cord off the machine. They probably have to send it out to be replaced. louis

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-01-2012, 10:58 PM:

Maybe just plug up the coin slot. At that point, the machine will not be collecting any money at all (or dispensing any soda), so the owner will have to figure out why and replace the defective coin and bill mechanisms.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-02-2012, 06:43 AM:

I've noticed that unless you insert a crisp, fresh, almost new dollar bill, the chances are that those vending machine changers won't accept it; so much so that I now hoard all the crisp, clean ones I get against the time when not being able to use one of those machines would give me a major problem.

We no longer have pound notes in England (they were phased out in the mid-80s), though Scotland still does (or at least did, the last time I was there a couple of years ago). That's left us with another problem: an epidemic of forged £1 coins, with some estimates being that up to a third of them in circulation are counterfeit. The copies are so good that anyone who hasn't been trained to spot them and had lots of practice never will. You only find out that you've got a forgery when a vending machine spits it back out at you. I once went through seven and a vending machine rejected the lot. When I then queued up at the register, the girl behind it told me that for a while, they'd been under instructions not to accept pound coins that the self-checkout machines had rejected, because this meant that they were almost certainly phoney. But this had attracted so many complaints from customers that they'd relented and started taking them, even though they knew that they were probably helping to circulate false currency.

If it's so easy to forge coins that'll get past 99.9% of the population, I wonder if we should go back to the notes.

In relation to Randy's problem, sabotaging the coin mechanism might not do the job, because they might just change that and leave the semi-knackered note changer in place.

An ex-colleague of mine managed to terminate a photocopier with extreme prejudice. Not being particularly IT literate she didn't do Powerpoint, and still prepared her teaching aids by photocopying onto OHP acetates. She also didn't realise that some OHP acetate sheets (which I suspect are actually polyester) are safe to put through a photocopier, but others are for handwriting on with a Sharpie-type pen only. She put one of the latter through the photocopier, inside of which it melted, coating the drum and the rest of its innards with molten acetate. The smoke that came out of it triggered the detector and an evacuation of an 11-storey office and lecture theatre block, too. Nice knowing you, £3k photocopier...

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-02-2012, 09:00 AM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
I've noticed that unless you insert a crisp, fresh, almost new dollar bill, the chances are that those vending machine changers won't accept it...

Most of the time, if you hold the bill taut and run it back and forth over a sharp corner like the edge of a counter or a door frame, a corner of the very machine you are trying to use, even, you can flatten the bill out enough that it will work.
Also, be sure there aren't any torn or dog eared corners.

I'd say that works 90% of the time.

I like the coin slot idea. It's a lot easier and faster. You could simply use Super Glue or J.B. Weld to fuse two quarters together into an ingot thin enough to go into the slot but too large to make it round the bend, inside the machine. Any other coins that came behind would simply exacerbate the traffic jam.

Because the two quarters that caused the jam are fused together, the usual "dig it out with a screwdriver" method wouldn't work. At minimum, the coin mechanism would have to be removed and taken back to the shop for disassembly and repair.

If I could only get some plastic explosives, I could make a quarter-sized "cookie" and really have some fun!

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 12-02-2012, 10:26 AM:

We have had loonie ($1) and toonie ($2) coins here for several years and I have never heard anything at all about forgeries.

We are just in the middle of transitioning to bills printed on plastic instead of paper, mostly to make them more difficult to counterfeit but they are also supposed to last twice as long before they are worn out. The $100 and $50 came out a while back, and the plastic $20 was just released in November; the $10 and $5 will be coming out next year. The plus is that we'll have less ragged bills, the negative is that they are hard to count (or at least I find them hard to count) because they tend to stick together and they are so thin that it's difficult to tell if you have one or two. They are also a lot more slippery, so I suspect that people who just jam money into their pocket and don't carry a wallet will tend to lose them more often.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-02-2012, 11:51 AM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
That's left us with another problem: an epidemic of forged £1 coins, with some estimates being that up to a third of them in circulation are counterfeit.

I've always wondered why Euro coins are magnetic.
Really great for doing magic tricks to have fun with the kids but horrible for vending machines and/or counterfeit detection.

No U.S. coin, except for the wartime penny, is magnetic. In fact, magnetism is the first line of defense for vending machines.

What would European vending machines use? Eddy current detecters to sense the composition of the metal?

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 12-02-2012, 12:34 PM:

Randy, as someone who worked for a company repairing vending machines I can pass on the following info:

For many years, ALL coin mechs have used eddy current detection to determine the size and authenticity of coins. CoinCo and MARS, the two major manufacturers, have coin mechs where the same model is sold worldwide and simply programmed for the coins they are allowed to accept. (In fact, if I recall correctly, both brands can be programmed to accept multiple country's coinage, for example US and Canadian.) I do not believe that magnets for counterfeit detection have been used since the mid 80's or so.

Second, jamming the coin mech will NOT ensure that the tech fixes the bill validator. As a field tech, and knowing other field techs I promise that they will not take the time to test the validator unless the service call was on the validator. (This is the cinema equivalent to getting a service call for a blown diode in the rectifier and not being told about the sound system having a blown speaker.)

Third, do not try to vandalize the validator in any way. (Or the coin mech either..bad idea Scott.) Some areas treat such vandalism the same as attempting to steal money from a cash register and file charges accordingly.

Best course of action is to try to find out which company restocks the machine and report the problem to them. It is lost revenue to them. Better yet, have you ever taped a note to the machine over the validator slot saying it's broken? Most service calls are started with a note by a user. [Wink]

Finally, since you know that it hasn't worked for "months and months" why don't you stock up on quarters and change so you could get the soda anytime you want? [evil]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-02-2012, 06:02 PM:

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
Third, do not try to vandalize the validator in any way.

There's a video cam in the lobby where the machine is. Anybody who actually carried out any thing they read here would have to be stupid.

The eddy current thing is cool. I imagined they would have something like that. Makes sense, actually.

But, the thing with the Tyvek bill in the validator has me thinking. First, if I'm not mistaken, bill validators have similar detectors in them, too. They register the way magnetic fields are altered by the iron bearing inks used to print money.

Am I right?

So, if that is true, trying to put a fake into a bill validator would cause it to be instantly rejected. If there is no iron, the thing might not even activate let alone take in the paper. Even if it did activate, the fake would probably only go in a half an inch then spit it right back out.

That's how I understand it, anyway.

If Canada or other countries are experimenting with (what I assume to be) Tyvek for printing money, there's probably going to be some big issues with bill valitators on vending machines and other things.

I imagine those devices would probably all have to be redesigned.

They do have a little box on the wall by the vending machines where you're supposed to leave notes when they don't work but, most of the time, those slots are all full of candy wrappers.

Most of the time, when I want a drink, I go to the convenience store where I can get the same thing for 99¢ instead of $1.75 from the vending machine. The times when I want to get drinks from the vending machine are on breaks when I don't have time to run to the store.

It doesn't make sense to carry around a pocket full of quarters when you might want a drink.

Sometimes, I keep a few quarters in the center console of my car. But, then, I have to run out to the car, either at night or in snowy weather, and root around looking for loose change.

That's why God invented bill validators. Isn't it?

Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 12-02-2012, 07:01 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
We are just in the middle of transitioning to bills printed on plastic instead of paper, mostly to make them more difficult to counterfeit but they are also supposed to last twice as long before they are worn out.

That's the same polymer biaxially-oriented polypropylene technology that we've been using down-under since 1992. By virtue of the polymer base they are virtually impossible to fake - that slippery feel of the polymer is very distinctive, and they can be watermarked too. Then they use intaglio printing, microprinting, and embossing just to make sure you get the point.

It is true that they do last a lot longer in circulation. Australian notes are marked with the year of printing, and just looking through my wallet I've got two $5 notes from 2006 and a $50 from 1997, all obviously circulated but still perfectly intact.

I'm curious to hear more about counterfeit coins in the UK though. We replaced our paper $1 and $2 notes with coins in 1984 and 1988 respectively and I've never heard anything about a similar problem here.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-02-2012, 08:24 PM:

There is a Coke machine in the Billings, MT airport with a bill validator that hasn't worked in over two years. I told the Coke guy about it when I saw him but it's still not fixed. Every time we're there, which is one or two times a year, it's always the butt-crack of dawn or late at night and there's no "management" types around to tell about it.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-03-2012, 01:59 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Every time we're there, which is one or two times a year, it's always the butt-crack of dawn or late at night and there's no "management" types around to tell about it.

I've had that syndrome from bitter experience, too. I was in California when the Iceland volcano blew up in 2010, grounding all transatlantic flights, and was stuck in the US for an extra week. I emailed the airport in England where my car was parked on a pre-paid parking deal (Teesside - a tiny regional airport in the north-east that has about three flights a day coming and going), and got a reply telling me not to worry, and that I wouldn't have to pay an excess parking charges when I eventually made it back.

When I did eventually make it back it was on a heavily delayed short hop from Amsterdam that arrived just before midnight. I suspect that the baggage handler who unloaded the cargo hold was probably the only staff member left on duty. The terminal was completely deserted. So I went to the car park machine, pressed the 'call for assistance' button and got no reply. There were about 20 of us with the same problem, and we walked round the terminal looking for someone without any luck. Eventually I had to pay £78 to get my ticket validated and be able to drive home. I then wrote to the airport's management with the receipt and a copy of the email telling me that I wouldn't have to pay extra, asking for a refund. I never had any reply, and as a result now do my flying out of Manchester.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 12-03-2012, 07:27 PM:

quote: Randy Stankey
First, if I'm not mistaken, bill validators have similar detectors in them, too. They register the way magnetic fields are altered by the iron bearing inks used to print money.

Am I right?

So, if that is true, trying to put a fake into a bill validator would cause it to be instantly rejected. If there is no iron, the thing might not even activate let alone take in the paper. Even if it did activate, the fake would probably only go in a half an inch then spit it right back out.

That's how I understand it, anyway.

Yes you are correct. There is a mag head inside the validator that reads the variations caused by the metallic inks used for real bills.

For such a simple device internally the validator has a complex microprocessor brain to detect fakes.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-03-2012, 07:56 PM:

Come on guys, don't make it complicated! Cut the cord off, throw away. Machine dead, no money , no refrigeration. Simple easy fix when they do fix it. (Small vandalism if caught!) Louis

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 12-03-2012, 10:47 PM:

Louis, I reiterate from an earlier post (with a minor edit to change validator to power cord:

quote:
Second, cutting the power cord will NOT ensure that the tech fixes the bill validator. As a field tech, and knowing other field techs I promise that they will not take the time to test the validator unless the service call was on the validator. (This is the cinema equivalent to getting a service call for a blown diode in the rectifier and not being told about the sound system having a blown speaker.)

And more importantly this little tidbit:

quote: Randy Stankey
There's a video cam in the lobby where the machine is. Anybody who actually carried out any thing they read here would have to be stupid.

Now, you still think it's not complicated or a good idea to even cut the power cord? [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-04-2012, 12:47 AM:

The machine is built into an alcove. The outlets are behind the machines. I'd probably have to move at least one of the machines to get to the cord.

If you really wanted to do the job right, you could use a 12 ga. shotgun.

Approach from the hallway on the blind side of the camera and pump two rounds of tactical buckshot into it. Then two rifled slugs go into the machine.

That ought to do it! [Wink]

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 12-04-2012, 01:34 AM:

Say hello to my little friend?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-04-2012, 07:58 AM:

I would doubt that our local guys could change a cord in-the-field if cut off short. Still, you may be right because of the camera.

In college, we moved one to the basement and held it hostage. Louis

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-04-2012, 08:26 AM:

It might require a lot of disassembly to get at it. Yes?

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 12-04-2012, 12:30 PM:

1. Ignore vending machine entirely.
2. Go to concession stand.
3. Get a Coke.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-04-2012, 05:07 PM:

There is no concession stand.

The closest store is the CVS two blocks down the street.
I usually go to the Sheetz which I drive by on the way to work because it's cheaper.

I often ignore the vending machines until it's either late at night or on Saturday afternoon when I'm working.

Sometimes, the machine does work. Other times, I do have correct change.

But, on those times when it doesn't work it's fun to joke around about putting a few shotgun slugs through the front of the machine.

People who let the venom out of their bloodstream in little bits, early on, won't be the ones who end up going postal, later.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 12-05-2012, 09:41 AM:

Next time you're at the grocery store, stock up on snacks! [Smile]

It'll be cheaper than buying from vending machines. [thumbsup]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-05-2012, 09:54 AM:

Often do. It's weekends and nights when I want to use this semi-functional vending machine.

Stocking up soda and keeping them in the car at this time of the year isn't a wise idea. Ever seen what happens when bottled or canned soda freezes? Ruptured soda all over the back seat! [Eek!]

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 12-05-2012, 10:11 AM:

Oh - I was thinking there was a place inside the theatre where you could keep your stuff. No?

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 12-05-2012, 10:23 AM:

Why is this silly topic still up?

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 12-05-2012, 10:41 AM:

It's just Film Yak.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-05-2012, 02:45 PM:

I'm still waiting for Guttag to chime in with the definitive answer.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 12-05-2012, 03:33 PM:

Steve usually does not chime in on the inane.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-05-2012, 08:16 PM:

Speaking of the inane; in the 1960s they had those office Coke machines with the slots in the top. You could see, but not reach the money bin.

I had a long grappler that I could borrow the money from the till. I took $1.00 in coin, less the cost of the Coke, bought a Coke, and then folded up $1 and put it in the till. The money balanced and I got my Coke.

They never did figure our who or how. I would hope they didn't think the dollar acually went through. Louis

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 12-06-2012, 02:25 PM:

That was an expensive coke in the 1960s.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 12-07-2012, 11:41 AM:

It didn't cost any more than any other coke from the 60s.

As you notice, he jerry rigged it so he could stick in a dollar and remove the appropriate change. Though I'd have to see a picture to get an idea of why his way was necessary.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-07-2012, 01:16 PM:

Chris: no changers on this model. Correct change only. Did not take dollar bills or coins over 25 cents. Top lid model for offices; was in the lobby of the college NPR station.

If the machine was near empty, it was possible to bend the front gently and remove the metal section that held the bottles, get your bottle, make change and then reinstall. Sometimes it was completely empty, but good bottles in the bottom which no one could reach.

I was careful not to steal or damage anything. Louis

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 12-07-2012, 04:12 PM:

I understand it now. This would have been a surprise to the person taking the money out of the machine...awesome.
According to local urban legend, access to the roof of the high rise male dorms at Texas Tech was permanently denied after a coke machine was shoved off said roof onto the ground below.
As I do not recall it making news, I have my doubts this occurred. (Allegedly in the 1980s.)
Had it occurred, my first suspects would have been the athletes housed there.
Damage to property would have been the least of the concerns here...

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-07-2012, 04:34 PM:

Now, there's an idea.

Steal the machine and repair the bill changer.
(It's probably just dirty. No?)

Then, return the machine, otherwise unharmed, to the roof of the building where it used to be.

There's a certain finesse to that.
Funny as hell but no real damage done. [Wink]