Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Barco X8 LED

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Posted by Aleksandar Obradovic (Member # 7266) on 04-12-2013, 12:19 PM:

Guys/Girls,

This topic is probably not suited for this form but i hope that i will find answer here. (Moderators you can freely move this topic to appropriate subforum if there is need for that)

One of my partner is interested to install video wall made of Barco X8 tiles. I know that is not a rocket science when it come to installation but my concern is price and maintenance.
How does it cost to build such thing e.g. 12x7 meters and what must be calculated for usual maintenance?

I forgot to tell that main usage is various content playing from Music Video to commercials and public addressing which will depend of current needs of owner.

I will appreciate all you help and effort to help me.

Also one of the possible solution is rear projecting system which will suit requests.

Note: Minimal viewer/observer distance from this "thing"is about 30-35 meters [Smile]

BR Alexander

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-12-2013, 01:29 PM:

A 12 meter x 7 meter LED display would be pretty big, bigger than some billboards even.

What is the overall resolution of the display and/or its pitch (distance between pixel centers)? The pitch of the display will greatly affect the cost. Just going by the size alone I'd say the cost of the display would be well above $100,000. Maybe more than $200,000 if the LED pixel cluster resolution is high enough.

Maintenance can be a huge and ongoing issue with LED signs. Driver boards (the LED tiles) are going to fail and need replacement from time to time. Lots of other technical problems can occur. Depending on where the LED sign is installed it might involve getting a sign company and its crane truck out to the site every time a problem occurs. See what Barco will offer for warranty coverage. Get quotes from other LED sign making companies (Daktronics, Mitsubishi, WatchFire, etc.) and try to find out which company's product holds up better. We're currently selling Daktronics displays.

Who is going to create the content to display on the LED sign? You'll save a lot of money if you can do that yourself. But it does demand some talent and know-how (Adobe Illustrator, Photoshop and After Effects for creating good looking stills and animations as well as knowing how to design graphics for outdoor viewing).

Where will the sign be installed? Find out what regulations and restrictions exist for signs where you will be installing this display. Do so before buying the LED sign.

Here in Lawton a start-up business went broke because they made that mistake. They bought a double sided LED-based billboard consisting of two 10 foot by 30 foot displays in V-configuration. They bought and installed the display without getting a permit or bothering to find out their display was in violation of the local sign ordinance. The city ordered them to shut down the sign. It has stood next to I-44 just dark ever since.

Posted by Aleksandar Obradovic (Member # 7266) on 04-12-2013, 01:52 PM:

Bobby,

Installation permits and content creation is not a problem at all. It is private property/resort village which is not controlled by municipality. Only obligation is to provide them projects (electrical/architectural etc.).
Installation issues are also not a problem. THE COST would be a problem and later maintenance in case of failure before MTBF.

Can you tell me is it possible to make this "beast" with rear projection system? Any ideas recommendations? This has to be installed in SE Europe in "private resort village".

Tell me if you need any questions.

BR Alex

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-14-2013, 11:40 AM:

I assume this display will be installed outdoors, right? I'm not sure how a d-cinema projection system can be set up for rear-screen projection, but it would seem possible.

Some of the question also comes down to what kinds of content you will show on the display. Are people going to be viewing this display primarily from passing vehicles? LED signs are best for that. If you're going to have a captive audience watching anything from short video presentations or even full length movies then a d-cinema style projection system would be best.

The drawbacks with LED signs are resolution limits (unless you really want to spend huge) and on-going maintenance. Some brands, such as Daktronics, are better in regards to build quality. You won't be replacing driver board tiles nearly as often. As tiles get swapped out you'll have headaches trying to make the replacement tiles look consistent in brightness and color with the existing tiles. It's not perfect. That's just the nature of those kinds of signs.

The big with LED signs is they're very bright. Far brighter than any projected image. One Daktronics unit we installed recently is perfectly visible and bright even with the afternoon sun in the West aimed directly at it. This is one reason why static billboards in many high traffic locations are being replaced with LED-based displays.

Posted by Aleksandar Obradovic (Member # 7266) on 04-14-2013, 02:06 PM:

I also prefer LED especially because it will be faced west. One more thing is that on site can be very windy.
Primary content that will be played is various from short commercials/advertisements and music videos to full length features from time to time. Also this LED will not be visible from road because it will be installed on sea cost in some private property/resort.
Main audience will be swimmers from beach, owners of villas in mentioned resort and people in ships/boats on the sea shore.

BR Alexander

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-14-2013, 02:39 PM:

World's largest... but still too small...

http://twistedsifter.com/2012/11/worlds-largest-fully-retractable-led-tv-cseed201/

It's nice to see eastern europe's economics going so well - were does that money come from? ;-)

- Carsten

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-15-2013, 12:06 AM:

It sounds like a LED-based system would be best. The Barco X8 has some impressive specs. If I'm reading the configuration right at Barco's web site, your partner wants X8 units 8 tiles tall by 11 tiles wide. The X8 tiles have a 8.6mm pixel pitch, 132 X 99 per tile, creating an overall resolution of 1452 X 792 -a little better than 720p resolution.

The X8 is going to be high enough in resolution to show content such as movies with acceptable resolution -certainly so for viewers watching at any significant distance. But will the X8 tiles be bright enough? One thing I've seen with tighter pitch LED displays is they'll sometimes be lacking in brightness compared to units with a more standard pitch, like 16mm or 20mm. The X8 is rated at 4000 nits brightness outdoors. Their TF10 10mm pitch tiles can put out 6500 nits. A 7 meter by 12 meter TF10 system would be a little under 720p resolution, but it might deliver a significantly brighter image.

Different LED sign product lines have different capabilities on what kinds of graphics and video they can support. All can drink a lot of electrical power. You definitely have to budget that in with the on-going maintenance.

I'd recommend getting quotes from Barco on a number of different systems in addition to the X8 based system. I'd also consider getting quotes from other companies such as Daktronics.

One thing is certain: stick with a well established company with a good history and long list of big installations. There's a seemingly endless number of companies making LED signs that cost less. Many of these companies come and go. Quite a few are based in China. When you buy and install a large LED sign you're getting into a long term relationship with that LED sign manufacturer. Good parts and service is a crucial part of the deal. The lower cost guys typically can't deliver on that. Spending a bit more up front with a company like Barco or Daktronics will pay off later by way of fewer headaches.

Posted by Aleksandar Obradovic (Member # 7266) on 05-02-2013, 02:10 PM:

Carsten,

One word... Russians [Smile]

Any way Barco's price was "too damn high" for them so they quit. 1.2M of euros for entire biz to be completed (including import, transportation, construction making, electrical works, some spare parts and 1yr included service/maintenance, training, etc).

Tnx for your help guys.

BR