Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Bombs Explodes At Boston Marathon Finish Line

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 04-15-2013, 02:25 PM:

2 bombs exploded, 20 seconds apart near the finish line to the Boston Marathon.

My hope and best wishes to the people in Boston.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 04-15-2013, 02:52 PM:

This is a very sad day.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-15-2013, 03:09 PM:

Multiple news media sites reporting three dead and 60 injured. Very sorry to hear this.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 04-15-2013, 03:37 PM:

One of my best friends was a few streets away at tremont and mass ave and is thankfully ok.

*EDIT* Just found out that my Fiance's cousin's husband is missing he was at the finish line.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 04-15-2013, 04:13 PM:

I just heard that there was a 3rd explosion at the JFK library about 30 minutes after the first two.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 04-15-2013, 04:13 PM:

Sean, just a word of hope. On 911 my sister in law and her husband had just parted ways near Wall Street, they worked in different areas, and it took them all day to get home or find each other or call friends and family. Besides the emotional effects, they were both o.k.

Thoughts and prayers to you and extended family.

Rick

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 04-15-2013, 04:24 PM:

Just heard everyone is ok and accounted for in my family.

I told all of my cabs not to take anyone into Down town Boston. (I own a cab company just outside of Boston)

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-15-2013, 07:18 PM:

The JFK library thing is unrelated.

I live a few blocks away from where this happened and was at home at the time. I didn't hear the bombs, but did hear lots of police/fire/ambulance activity and soon saw Marathon-goers walking away from the area.

There is still lots of police activity around here, and many streets are blocked off.

All of the TV and radio stations are covering this, but seem to have very little new information. There is a really creepy videotape that they keep broadcasting that shows the two explosions.

It is truly saddening that (it appears that) someone decided to turn what should have been a happy and fun event into a tragic day for many people. One of the two confirmed deaths is an 8-year-old boy.

Many of the Marathon runners are stranded at this point--unable to get into their hotel rooms or even call family members and friends to let them know that they are well.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-15-2013, 09:15 PM:

It's a pretty tragic and anger inspiring situation. My heart goes out to those who were hurt as well as their families and friends. This bombing has attempted to permanently tarnish the Boston Marathon and Patriots Day. I don't think the citizens of the greater Boston area will let that happen.

I'm also hoping there are enough clues left behind to bring the perpetrators of this incident to justice. There's all sorts of chatter on social media outlets about "you attacked the wrong city and the wrong country" -implying this was the work of terrorists from outside the US. Those who are investigating this attack need to consider all leads. This bombing could have been perpetrated by foreign terrorists or home grown terrorists like the ones who bombed the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. I kind of wonder about that one. The 18th anniversary of the Murrah Building bombing is this Friday. Hate groups have deliberately targeted certain law enforcement and criminal justice members in recent weeks. Then there's the possibility it just could be some sociopath jerk who just wanted to hurt some people.

With as many cameras that were in use during this event, ranging from cameras in mobile phones to professional quality video cameras, hopefully there might be some photo image or piece of video footage that would lead to the murderer who planted the bombs.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-16-2013, 02:21 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
This bombing has attempted to permanently tarnish the Boston Marathon and Patriots Day.

The other thing I presume the bomber(s) aimed to achieve was to frighten people who intend to take part in other forthcoming public outdoor events, too. On my drive in to work this morning there was a police spokesman on the radio saying words to the effect that he intended to turn London into North Korea while the London Marathon takes place this Sunday, in an attempt to prevent a repeat incident. If you get to the point at which they're shutting down mobile phone networks for the day and searching spectators at random, then, sadly, to a certain extent the terrorists have won.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-16-2013, 09:58 PM:

As bad as it is that this happened, at least somebody in Boston has the ability to maintain a sense of humor in the face of disaster:

http://www.onefoottsunami.com/2013/04/16/strength-in-the-face-of-evil/

The famous "MITris" hack on the facade of Building 54 (AKA: The Green Building) was revived and, later, the American flag was displayed.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-17-2013, 01:46 AM:

Security in London was already going to be tight even before this happened, due to the funeral of Margaret Thatcher today.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-19-2013, 02:23 PM:

Things seem to be getting somewhat volatile in Boston - an entire suburb sealed off and door-to-door searches for the fugitive suspect. Hope Sean and Scott are keeping safe and aren't too badly disrupted.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-19-2013, 02:47 PM:

The city and a number of surrounding cities and towns are basically shut down today. Businesses were told not to open and most companies have told their employees to stay at home (mine did). All public transportation has been shut down. Even cabs were shut down for a while this morning. There are very few people on the streets. The local TV and radio stations have been broadcasting about this all day (without commercials!), but there has been very little real news about what is actually happening.

I went to bed at about 10:30 last night when everything was more-or-less normal and woke up to this mess today.

I will be doing a screening tonight and it will be interesting to see how many people show up for it.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 04-20-2013, 09:30 AM:

Thank you for your concern and well wishes. I am located about 30 miles from watertown on the other side of Boston (I am 16 miles 15-20 mins from Boston) No public transportaion whatsoever yesterday and we suspended taxi service going to Boston, Cambridge, Watertown, Newton, Brookline, Allston, and Waltham.

I am glad that they caught this guy and I am glad they got him alive so he can face the criminal justice system. It will be interesting to find out the whole story about how this played out and what information they knew and when they knew it.

There was a taxicab involved in a possibly related incident in Kenmore square in Boston where two handcuffed persons were taken from the scene early yesterday morning and shortly afterwards there was a "controlled detonation" at that scene but have heard no other details since.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-20-2013, 02:15 PM:

I heard that they were not going to read him his Miranda Rights which concerns me since he is a US citizen. Regardless of what this mofo did, he must go through due process.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-21-2013, 10:43 AM:

Agreed totally: if you're in a country legally (and IMO not just if you're a citizen, but also if you're a legal visitor or non-citizen resident who has entered obeying all the rules), then if you're accused of a crime in that country, you should answer that charge through the normal criminal justice system. Jurors are not stupid (well, even if one of them is, there are eleven others to offset that), and there's a reason why they're the mainstay of the criminal (and in some circumstances, civil as well) justice system in many countries worldwide.

Very relieved to hear that this is over and that Boston is returning to normal without any further death or injury, and that hopefully the economic damage is also now more or less over, too. If what I've been reading on the newspaper sites gives an accurate impression, the surviving suspect had been filled up with poison by his manipulative older brother, who appears to have been the real bad guy. Given that Chechen nationalist terrorism has never taken place outside the former USSR before, I guess this caught everyone off guard, but that the response has to be the same as always: to send the message that blowing innocent people up, whoever is doing it and for whatever reason, is never going to work.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-21-2013, 10:59 AM:

quote: Joe Redifer
I heard that they were not going to read him his Miranda Rights which concerns me since he is a US citizen. Regardless of what this mofo did, he must go through due process.

I think they are going to declare him an enemy combatant or something that gives them some period of time to question him before reading him Miranda Rights but they have to do it eventually to arrest him. I think it is a way to get him to talk about others involved without a lawyer.

I heard on some TV show that the worst case is that his lawyer will get any statements thrown out that he makes before getting the rights. Assuming that having a lawyer earlier would have prevented those statements it's the same thing as far as he is concerned. The only difference is they will try to determine if there were others involved first.

I agree with you that no Citizen should be denied any rights no matter what the crime was. Otherwise it is a slippery slope and who gets to decide what crimes let your rights be usurped? If this guy is an "enemy combatant" why isn't the orange haired jackass that shot up the theatre?

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 04-21-2013, 11:59 AM:

I feel pretty strongly that ESPECIALLY in these types of cases it is vitally important that we uphold our values of justice and show the world that we practice what we preach. Our country was founded on certain principles and it is these principles that the terrorists hate. I think that no matter how horrible the crime or what a slam dunk the evidence is we should treat all of our citizens and non recognized military persons apprehended on our soil to the same standards do due process and justice. I feel that suspending habeus corpus and Miranda is more a victory for those who hate the American way of life.

Look at it this way what if you we're accused of a crime? I have been. I was accused of a bank robbery some years ago.. An acquaintance had actually robbed a different a few days prior so they decided to throw my drivers license photo into a photo array as I drove a car similar to one described at the scene. The teller picked out my photo and the police obtained arrest and search warrants. They arrested me at my home and tore my house apart. They told my father and fiancé that "the police don't make mistakes" they questioned me and refused to show me any pictures or surveillance footage. I was bailed out and my name and picture was in the news paper. About a month later they dropped all of the charges. I was told that when the DA saw the surveillance footage he realized that there was no way it could have been me. I never got an apology and the paper never printed anything about the charges being dropped and the arrest stricken from my record. My point? No matter what a slam dunk it appears to be it is important to protect the suspects rights because in the future it could be you accused and if we allow someone's rights to be given up in one case it could end up being your rights on the line in the future.

I hope that the government makes it's case and gives the suspect no reason to be able to appeal and that he does the rest of his life in confinement with nothing but the absolute bare minimum of food and shelter if he is found guilty. I am not a believer in the death penalty I believe he should have to sit and suffer for his crimes for the rest of his life. Sending him to death is too easy and makes him a martyr for other extremists.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-21-2013, 03:54 PM:

The Military Commissions Act of 2006 allows the United States government to hold anyone they deem an enemy of the state for an unlimited amount of time without bringing charges or going to trial. Due process, at least on the federal level is now optional.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-21-2013, 06:55 PM:

I think that law applies to "imminent danger" only. If it doesn't, it should.

No matter what happens to this kid, legally, his life is all but over.

Let's just imagine, for a second, that they opened the hospital doors and let him walk out. He wouldn't survive a week. He'll be an outcast and the target of the whole world's rage for the rest of his life. The best thing that could happen to him, right now, from his perspective, would be to die on an operating table.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 04-21-2013, 07:30 PM:

This dude will probably die before the week is out.

I think that is the best outcome. We should waste NO money on a trial for this guy. We can debate forever his role in the Boston Marathon bombings. However, his actions speak volumes the night he was pursued. He shot at police officers, was present when a police officer was killed (or shot him), ran over his brother eluding police. -etc. etc. etc. His life threatening wound - is a self inflicted gun shot to his neck.

I really think that the U.S. should take a lesson from Israel when it comes to handling terrorism. Handle them before innocent people get killed. With these Muslim extremists - it's only going to get worse as their religion grows. Islam is already the largest organized religion in the world. These two brothers were flies on a windshield compared to what's ahead.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-22-2013, 02:06 AM:

quote: Dennis Benjamin
I really think that the U.S. should take a lesson from Israel when it comes to handling terrorism. Handle them before innocent people get killed.

As a general rule I think that's what the security services try to do. As I speculated in my earlier post, Chechnyan terrorists have never (AFAIK) done anything outside the former Soviet bloc. In fact, the last incident I can think of was when they took a bunch of hostages in a Moscow theatre in 2002. So my guess would be that everyone has been concentrating on Al Queda, Bin Liner etc., with the result that these people managed to slip under the radar.

quote: Dennis Benjamin
With these Muslim extremists - it's only going to get worse as their religion grows. Islam is already the largest organized religion in the world. These two brothers were flies on a windshield compared to what's ahead.

I may be being naive, but suspect that we're probably going through the worst of it at the moment. The reason why Islamic terrorism has become such a major problem (primarily for the US, but also in much of Western Europe) is because a group of theocratic dictatorships in the Middle East suddenly found themselves with a cash windfall of bazillions when their oil industries got seriously underway in the '70s. The 9/11 bombers, the 7/7 bombers in London, the nutty preachers ranting away on wacko websites, the training camps in the Afghan mountains ... all are bankrolled from this source.

However, Middle East oil is now starting to dry up. Saudi production has almost certainly gone over the peak, and the extraction infrastructure in Iran and Iraq is so primitive that they are producing very little. At the same time, the west is starting to go hell for leather to develop alternative energy sources. In short, I suspect that within a couple of decades, these rogue regimes simply won't have the money to menace the rest of the world anymore.

Western Europe had a big problem with fascism over about a 25-year period in the early part of the last century. It eventually ended. Eastern Europe had a similar problem with communism, though admittedly that lasted a lot longer. Hopefully, the problem of Islamic theocratic imperialism has a finite lifespan, too. That doesn't mean to say that there aren't short-term dangers that need to be addressed (not least preventing a nuclear-armed Iran), but my hunch is that in 20 years' time the overall problem will be much diminished.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-22-2013, 08:53 AM:

Diminishing oil reserves in the Mid-East and the rise of alternative and perhaps renewable energy sources would make a big dent in the economies of some countries who do sponsor terrorism. Not all countries dominated by Islam are in the Middle East.

The influence of Islam is growing in Africa and parts of Asia. IIRC Indonesia is now the world's most populous Islamic country. Muslims in Indonesia are more moderate; they don't take the more dogmatic, literal view of Islam common for many in the Middle East.

IMHO, technology is the biggest enemy of terrorists, particularly those who use Islam as a costume for their hatred and violence. Intelligence organizations like the CIA have smashed terror groups using various kinds of technological tools. The general public plays its part too. The more communication improves between all parts of the world the more people all over the world will see a more balanced view of things. Many terrorists, but not all, have poor educations, little income and little hope. They're easily indoctrinated by terrorist leaders.

I have a theory Islamic extremists are resorting to terrorism out of paranoia about the Western world and influence of Western culture. Our movies, music, points of view and more are infiltrating every part of the globe. Western culture isn't 100% positive, but it does send messages to women telling them they don't have to be treated like cattle the way they are in many cultures around the world. Western culture sends a message that anyone can achieve a good life if he educates himself well enough and works hard enough. Being illiterate and close minded the way some cleric orders has no future. These clerics don't like the idea of losing their power and influence to western culture. So they're lashing out with violence.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 04-22-2013, 10:57 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
The Military Commissions Act of 2006 allows the United States government to hold anyone they deem an enemy of the state for an unlimited amount of time without bringing charges or going to trial. Due process, at least on the federal level is now optional.

Just because it is possible does not make it "right" our country and criminal justice system was founded upon our right to Liberty and Due Process.

I think our founding fathers understood that sometimes to protect our own liberty we must do things that are uncomfortable or unpopular or even repulse us. It is easy to give in to emotion and to due what is popular at the time in the guise of public safety but it takes much courage to stand up and say that it is wrong to deny any american citizen no matter how heinous their crime the right to due process.

“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” Benjamin Franklin

“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” Thomas Jefferson

“But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever.” John Adams

While not a founding father an apt quote none the less;

“A right delayed is a right denied.” Martin Luther King Jr.

I also think that recognizing these people as "enemy combatants" legitimize them and gives them a rationalization for murder (ie; it's not murder, its war).

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-22-2013, 11:47 AM:

quote: Dennis Benjamin
With these Muslim extremists - it's only going to get worse as their religion grows. Islam is already the largest organized religion in the world. These two brothers were flies on a windshield compared to what's ahead.

But aren't the extremists just a fringe element of Islam? I mean, the religion supposedly preaches peace, doesn't it? If they're a fringe element they probably don't have the support of the whole faith...do they?

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 04-22-2013, 01:45 PM:

It's the same as the spread of Christianity: Christians arrived in foreign countries and forced the people to covert or basically die (or have a terrible life).
What's happening now is the same thing with Islam. Islam as a whole wants everyone on earth to "Submit to Allah" or die an infidel. The peace loving Muslims, while they don't subscribe to their radical cohorts beliefs, are not really going to argue the spread of the religion they are part of.
I have read every major religion's "Holy Book" including the Koran. As with radical Christians, radical Muslims take written words and passages located in their "sequel to the Old Testament" literally sometimes.
It's only a matter of time before the Western World is overtaken by them.

Think about it.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 04-22-2013, 02:07 PM:

I think this has severely moved into the verbotten "Politics and Religion" category.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-22-2013, 03:02 PM:

Not really - at this point it's about finding information, not a than a who's right or wrong discussion.

I think everyone would like to know just WHY the Boston guys did what they did.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-23-2013, 04:41 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I think everyone would like to know just WHY the Boston guys did what they did.

+1. These kids had escaped from one of the most dangerous, unpleasant and impoverished countries in the world (even the name of the capital of Chechnya, Grozny, means 'terrible' or 'frightening' in Russian!) to one of the safest, aspirational and most affluent. Even if the older brother had basically failed to assimilate into American society, it seems that the younger one had done so, more or less successfully - on the surface, at least. Both were relatively well educated (as, also, were a significant proportion of the 9/11 and 7/7 perpetrators). They don't appear to fit the classic profile of a violent terrorist, at all. Just what brought them to do this is, I'd hope, pretty high on the list of questions that the investigators are trying to answer.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-23-2013, 05:32 AM:

I don't think people truly understand the Middle East Muslims. I will share 2 true stories involving Saudi Arabia which isn't considered one of the "crazy" countries.

The first is from my neighbor's sister that lived there for a few years with her husband (who worked for the Air Force training F-16 pilots). She taught English at a Saudi private school. In speaking to one of her female students she found out that the student's brothers had regular anal sex with her (the student). My neighbor's sister learned that 2 things are important. 1) Girls MUST remain virgins until marriage and 2) Boys have needs and can do whatever they want. In order to satisfy both 1 & 2 anal sex with your sister doesn't count as taking the girl's virginity. This practice is sanctioned by the parents and is completely normal there.

The second story involves a former co-worker at a technology company. He was from Saudi Arabia. He was a very nice guy that seemed to be the type of Muslim that everybody wants to believe is the majority. He told me that in college (in the US, Kansas State I think) he wrote a paper that argued why men are superior to women and why it isn't good for women to have rights. It's been years so I don't remember the specific reasoning but I remember being so shocked I couldn't even respond.

Based on conversations with him BEFORE 9/11, I remember telling a friend of mine that I figured out the disconnect between hard core Muslims and "normal" people. "Normal" people want to live a good life and hope that they are rewarded in an afterlife (if it exists). Hard core Muslims believe that this life is a practice run for the afterlife and they must do everything commanded by the Koran to get there.

Speaking of the "peaceful" Koran, somebody once gave an English version to my mother-in-law. She kept it on her shelf so as not to be rude. As a joke one day I opened to a random page to read a passage. The passage said (paraphrasing) that all non-believers are infidels and that the only way to deal with infidels is to burn them in oil.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-23-2013, 07:04 AM:

quote: Lyle Romer
Speaking of the "peaceful" Koran, somebody once gave an English version to my mother-in-law. She kept it on her shelf so as not to be rude. As a joke one day I opened to a random page to read a passage. The passage said (paraphrasing) that all non-believers are infidels and that the only way to deal with infidels is to burn them in oil.

Not to be too political here, but often the texts from those old religious books are quoted and paraphrased out of context. Also, the Bible has got its fair share of violence, if you happen to open it at a random page, you might encounter stuff like this:

"Their children will be smashed to pieces before their very eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives raped."

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-23-2013, 08:49 AM:

quote: Lyle Romer
The passage said (paraphrasing) that all non-believers are infidels and that the only way to deal with infidels is to burn them in oil.

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable way to deal with people who say that digital is better than film to me. Just as long as the oil is Kinoton-approved intermittent oil, that is... [Smile]