Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: First Run Films In Your Home Theatre

This is topic First Run Films In Your Home Theatre in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 05-06-2013, 08:51 AM:

The link below is to a company providing a home HD server and access to first run films in the same window they are playing in theatres.

Prima Cinema

While this is undoubtedly an expensive toy, that they will only install for those who have expensive qualifying home theatres, it is yet a another crack in the theatrical window.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-06-2013, 10:05 AM:

At $500/screening and $35k for the player, it doesn't strike me as being much of a threat to movie theatres.

I assume that the intended market would be well-to-do "celebrities" in non-film-related industries (sports stars, etc.) who feel uncomfortable going to public theatres. I can sort of see the attraction for them (as, presumably, they do not want to get mobbed when they are recognized in public), but they are also probably not attending commercial movies in theatres, anyway.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-06-2013, 05:53 PM:

quote:
The PRIMA Cinema Player outputs movies over HDMI, and will interface directly with practically all modern video projectors & HDTVs and audio receivers & processors. Integration with your home automation system is through your home’s IP network and plug-ins for the automation system. Authorised PRIMA Cinema Dealers conduct a site survey of your home theater to verify compatibility and determine any upgrades if needed.

Sounds like a big hole in the whole "chain of trust" here if the only thing that's protecting the studios precious content is HDCP [Wink]

At this moment, their movie library seems a bit locked into Universal-only releases (which is notably a major investor into this thing).

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 05-06-2013, 06:02 PM:

There could still be digital watermarking/dCrAP. At $500 per time they could encode a special watermarked edition for each user (at the server end).

Posted by Frank B. McLaughlin (Member # 6683) on 05-07-2013, 06:48 AM:

$500 today - $50 tomorrow! Price and volume are ALWAYS related.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 05-07-2013, 08:46 AM:

> $500 today - $50 tomorrow! Price and volume are ALWAYS related.

That is my point. While this is not really a threat to theatres, over time it will be. Not so much the technology, but the concept. It is the first crack in what was a bullet proof window.

I remember in the late 1990's going to Sears to look at the first 45" plasma flat screen tv. It had a price of over $10K. A decade later they were selling for $500.

Posted by Ron Yost (Member # 1850) on 05-07-2013, 11:31 AM:

I wonder if this is an offshoot/expansion of the Bel Air Circuit?

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 05-07-2013, 01:36 PM:

That's exactly what it is. The 'Bel Air' circuit's existence all these years has never hurt the exhibition business.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-07-2013, 05:39 PM:

quote: Mark Hajducki
There could still be digital watermarking/dCrAP. At $500 per time they could encode a special watermarked edition for each user (at the server end).

Agreed - HDCP is the new incarnation of CSS - no more than a minor irritant to those who want to defeat it. I can't believe that anyone in their right mind would rely on that alone to prevent piracy, either. The bespoke file approach makes sense, especially given that the likely customer base for this service consists of seriously wealthy consumers, who at the very least would be capable of paying a massive fine, and may well have reputations at stake as well if they're identified as the source of pirated versions.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-08-2013, 03:42 AM:

Isn't it merely similar, but unrelated, to the Bel Air Circuit?

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 05-08-2013, 06:02 AM:

Isn't this basically the digital version of the uber rich people that used to get 35mm prints in their private theatres during first run in the past?

I can't remember who it was but back 20 years ago (wow I'm getting old), the projectionist at the theatre I worked at used to go to West Palm Beach every so often to run first run film for a multi-millionaire. He paid a few hundred dollars for the print rental.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-08-2013, 06:27 AM:

quote: Lyle Romer
Isn't this basically the digital version of the uber rich people that used to get 35mm prints in their private theatres during first run in the past?

Yes, but it looks like they're trying to grow that market by cutting out the need to install professional cinema equipment. From the stuff on their website, it looks like their player simply connects to whatever video and audio technology you have in your home - anything with an HDMI socket, basically. So if you don't really care about the picture and sound quality but just want the kudos of being able to see newly released blockbusters in your living room, your 40" flat screen from Target will do just fine.

Previously, you needed (a) a 35mm installation, which in turn meant serious architectural modifications to your house, (b) contacts and relationships with distributors in order to rent prints, and (c) to hire a projectionist. With this system, A and C are not needed, and it looks like the company are packaging B along with their player.

I'm guessing that their target customer is seriously rich and might want this as a status symbol, but is not necessarily a committed cinema enthusiast. I can't see it making much of an impact on the theatre business, though: anyone who is able and willing to pay $500 to see a single movie in their home is unlikely to be a regular customer at their local strip mall 12-plex in any event.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-08-2013, 07:02 AM:

My understanding is that the Bel-Air circuit requires connections to the motion-picture industry (and print rental is free, though presumably shipping is the responsibility of the user, as is the hiring of a projectionist), while this is available for "anyone" (with a spare $35k) to buy.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 05-12-2013, 02:16 AM:

First heard about this near April 1st, so thought it was an April Fool's joke.

Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 05-12-2013, 01:48 PM:

HDCP has been long cracked. So there's that.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-12-2013, 11:45 PM:

I'd really like to know what kind of codec this thing stores the movies in. It claims "twice as sharp as Blu-ray" or some BS like that yet it's running over an HDMI cable and is compatible with modern TVs and projectors with 1080p resolution.

quote: Lyle Romer
I can't remember who it was but back 20 years ago (wow I'm getting old), the projectionist at the theatre I worked at used to go to West Palm Beach every so often to run first run film for a multi-millionaire.

Oh man. We had to build up 3 or more upcoming movies every single week for the executives at UA to screen in their homes. One of them was UA president Stuart Blair (whom no one missed when he left) as well as concession chief Bruce Taffet (whom no one missed when he left and damn he sure was peremptory). I don't remember who the 3rd guy was but he was much more quiet and patient. Very rarely did we ever send anything that was first run because first run was far too old. Them watching a first run movie would be the equivalent of normal people going to the dollar theater or renting it on VHS for 50 cents years after the movie came out for the home market.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-13-2013, 01:02 AM:

quote: Joe Redifer
I'd really like to know what kind of codec this thing stores the movies in. It claims "twice as sharp as Blu-ray" or some BS like that yet it's running over an HDMI cable and is compatible with modern TVs and projectors with 1080p resolution.

The HDMI standard can support a data transfer speed of 8.16 gigabits per second (according to Wikipedia), compared to 48 megabits for Blu-ray. So, theoretically at least, this system could be using a bitrate that is way higher. But presumably this system is tied to 1080p, no matter how high the bitrate is. And as the content is delivered over the Internet, unless you've got a fibre optic connection, the download time for a movie that is, say, 100gb plus is not going to be rapid.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 05-13-2013, 01:57 PM:

Blu-ray isn't sending 48 megabits over the HDMI. It's decompressed first and sent as uncompressed video. That's why I wanna know what the codec (and bitrate) is.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-13-2013, 03:27 PM:

That video quality isn't going to be "twice as sharp" as Blu-ray unless certain variables are in place.

Are the customers using some newfangled 4K resolution HDTV screen? That's a huge variable right there. How the video was mastered is another big variable. 2K? 4K? 8-bit color, 10-bit, 12-bit, 16-bit? Finally the way the video is encoded and delivered to the customer is another big one, after all no one on the consumer level or even the commercial movie theater level gets the equivalent of an uncompressed studio HD master. They always get a lesser version of it. What's the native resolution, color depth, compression codec, bit rate, etc.?