Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Cinemascope in mono.

This is topic Cinemascope in mono. in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 09-02-2013, 06:57 AM:

When were the first 'scope prints with mono optical tracks released, either optical only, or mag-opt? Also, what was the first black and white 'scope release?

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-02-2013, 08:47 AM:

Don't know the first, but probably the last B&W 'scope mono feature was Woody Allen's Manhattan in 1979.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-02-2013, 08:57 AM:

I would guess right away since not everyone bought 'scope right away and I'm sure they couldn't leave a sheckle uncollected. louis

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 09-02-2013, 09:27 AM:

I'm sure there were any number of Westerns or B war movies as early as 1953 or so.

"Longest Day" and "Hustler" come to mind but these are early '60's.

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 09-02-2013, 10:03 AM:

I’m not sure how you will go about answering this with any accuracy. There were experiments in anamorphic cinema as early as the late 1920s in France, but the titles are likely lost to history.

If you want to define “Cinemascope” as films from the Twentieth Century-Fox era and later, I would probably look to the output of Regal Films, which was their early 1950s B-movie division. For the first b/w Cinemascope photographed film, IMDB lists a picture called The Desperados Are In Town in monaural and b/w with a November 1956 release date. Also, there were apparently ‘scope monaural prints, albeit in color, of Broken Lance and Carmen Jones, both 1954.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-02-2013, 11:46 AM:

I can't now remember where I read this, but Forty Guns (1957) was one of the first features to be shot on Eastman 5231 stock, which was noted because previously, cinematographers had been reluctant to shoot in b/w scope because of the graininess of the existing b/w negative stocks when anamorphically stretched. 5231 was widely perceived to have solved the grain problem, and b/w anamorphic was used (though obviously, in a minority of films as an artistic choice) more often thereafter. On the Beach and The 400 Blows (both 1959, the latter shot on Ilford HP5) and The Day the Earth Caught Fire (1961) were three pics that attracted critical attention for their use of b/w 'scope, which was quite fashionable in art movies throughout the '60s.

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 09-02-2013, 02:52 PM:

1956 Fox Regalscope (Black & White CinemaScope) Films
The Black Whip
The Desperadoes Are in Town

1955 Superscope black-and-white
Bangazi
The Return of Jack Slade

See Widescreen Museum process filmography and Gary Palmer's widescreen lists .

MGM's first CinemaScope release, KNIGHTS OF THE ROUND TABLE (1954), had a Perspecta optical track.

quote:
A February 5, 1954 Hollywood Reporter news item reported that Knights of the Round Table was the first film for international release to feature M-G-M's new optical track stereophonic sound system.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 09-03-2013, 02:34 PM:

The very first Cinemascope prints didn't have a optical track, the first optical prints were mono. It was intended to be a fall back.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 12-21-2014, 11:12 PM:

It has been 474 days since the last post.

Posted by Robert Furmanek (Member # 7026) on 12-21-2014, 11:12 PM:

On April 9, 1956, MGM began filming THE POWER AND THE PRIZE in black and white 2.35:1 CinemaScope. It was released on September 26, 1956 and was the first black and white CinemaScope film.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 12-22-2014, 03:57 PM:

If memory of things that I have read serve me correctly, and I don't guarantee that this is indeed correct, to install CinemaScope when it was introduced, part of the licensing required mag stereo. There was no optical track on those early prints. Theatre owners fought the stereo requirement tooth and nail. At some point, Walter Reade Theatres started installing CinemaScope with just the mag stereo preamps, merging the front channels into one amp so they could use their existing sound equipment. Shortly thereafter, Fox relented and started releasing mag/optical tracks. Originally, CinemaScope was 2.55:1. As a result of mag/optical, the picture area was reduced to make room for the optical track, so the new aspect ratio was 2.35:1.

All composite (picture and sound on one print) optical tracks were mono prior to the introduction of Dolby Stereo.

Perspecta Stereo utilized a mono track with 3 subsonic control tones that were used to control the volume of the front 3 speakers independently, allowing sound to pan as desired, simulating discreet stereo. Perspecta was intended as a cheaper alternative to mag stereo as dual inventory prints were not required, the prints were really just mono with the control tones filtered out below the academy sound curve.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 12-23-2014, 12:12 AM:

I believe That there was also a Clause that said any Film shot in Cinemascope in those initial years had to be shot in Color. Nicholas Ray discovered this while Shooting "Rebel without a Cause" in 1955. The picture was intended to be in B&W/Scope and Ray had already shot close to a week's worth of footage in B&W. Apparently legal people with Cinemascope informed Ray of the Clause in the Contract; which he apparently hadn't paid attention too or never read at all. All the prior B&W Footage had to be reshot in Color. They must have conceded shortly after that as the 1st B&W Scope Picture showed up in 1956 as BOB Said...

Posted by Robert Furmanek (Member # 7026) on 12-23-2014, 03:14 PM:

More information on black and white widescreen can be found on this page of our website: http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/widescreen-in-black-and-white

Here's the story on Fox and stereo sound requirements for CinemaScope: http://centraltheater.blogspot.com/2007/01/stereophonic-sound-or-bust.html

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 12-23-2014, 11:08 PM:

If you have the Special Edition DVD of "REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE" The Bonus disc talks about having to reshoot the Film in Color and shows some scenes of the Original B&W Footage. Also has interviews with Actors like Dennis Hopper,Corey Allen,Jack Grinage and a couple of the female actress's in the gang. I believe these interviews were done in 2009 and sadly a number have died since then....Got this Special edition DVD in the 5 dollar Bin at Walmart....Great Bargain! [thumbsup]

Posted by Robert Furmanek (Member # 7026) on 12-24-2014, 12:20 AM:

Thanks, Steve. At most they lost four days of shooting in black and white: March 30-31, April 1-2. They switched to Warnercolor on Monday, April 4.