Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Possible Legal Question

This is topic Possible Legal Question in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=006886

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-15-2013, 10:22 PM:

I got a phone call from my mother this evening and she told me something that's got me kind of pissed off. Just want to bounce it off you guys to see what you think.

Mom is 70 years old. She's in good health and all. No health concerns that aren't common to somebody that age. She still drives and doesn't have any issues.

Mom went to get a pedicure the other day. When she went into the salon, they had been using some kind of nail polish or spray on one of the prior customers that left a lot of fumes in the air. Mom said they told her it was "silicone" or something. I don't know what it really is. That's what she said.

Mom was in a confined room with enough fumes to make her sick. She had to stop the pedicure and go outside for air. She went back in and finished up but the fumes made her sick again. She had to leave. On the way home, Mom had to stop the car in order to puke.

The girl at the salon said that this had happened before.

My concern is that they used some chemical in a confined room, got a 70 year old woman stoned on paint fumes then let her drive home in a car! What if Mom got into a car accident because of this?!

Needless to say that I'm pissed off!
I told Mom that she needs to call that salon and complain. Pitch a shit fit! Matter of fact, I think I'm going to call and pitch a fit.

My question is what do you think I should do?
I want to go in guns ablazing and give them hell. The better side of me says that I should just tell them my concern and say, "I anticipate that this will be the last time this ever happens," and leave it at that. If they are honest and fix the problem then let it drop.

I suppose Mom could threaten to sue them but she's downplaying the whole thing. I think she should at least complain but she doesn't even want to do that.

What do you guys think?

Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 09-15-2013, 11:14 PM:

Sounds like a public health issue to me. I'd get an agency involved to make inspections. But who? The Fire Marshall would sure do the hissie thing if it was any kind of combustable or other toxic fume in the air, and if not, would know who the right agency to get in contact with would be.

I'd definitely take a nice morning stroll down to the old neighborhood fire house and just chat.

Yeah.

Chat.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 09-15-2013, 11:15 PM:

You should call them and speak to them politely but firmly about the issue.

If there is any threat to be made it would be to get the health department and/or osha involved. There isn't really any lawsuit to threaten unless your Mom had gotten into an accident or needed medical treatment (which, thankfully she didn't).

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-15-2013, 11:53 PM:

It wouldn't hurt to call or write to the licensing authority for nail salons, whoever that is. It's probably the same place that licenses barbers.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 09-16-2013, 01:53 AM:

Tell her to consult an attorney. She may have the basis for a lawsuit. I can't help but believe this is a health code violation. I don't think the fact that your mom is 70 has any bearing. I wonder how many other women have gotten sick.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 5226) on 09-16-2013, 04:24 AM:

Randy

I wonder if they were using "Acetone", recently we went past a place in a nearby mall that did that type of thing. It really did stink of Acetone.

We used it a lot in aviation and like so many chemicals you have to be real careful with it. You don't want to breath in the fumes that's for sure.

Graham.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 09-16-2013, 04:41 AM:

Unless the salon did not have the proper ventilation as required by code, I don't see how she would have much of a legal case. Especially since she stepped out and then voluntarily reentered the establishment. However, as others have said, it wouldn't hurt to inquire with the local health department.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-16-2013, 07:58 AM:

Pretty much what all of the above said. Beauty Parlors tend to be heavily regulated.
On the other hand, the employees are often low paid workers who are forced to work in horrible conditions. If your mom got sick in a few minutes, imagine what's happening to the full time workers.
Just remember, if you are going to yell at someone, yell at the right someone.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-16-2013, 11:05 AM:

quote: Graham Ritchie
I wonder if they were using "Acetone", recently we went past a place in a nearby mall that did that type of thing. It really did stink of Acetone.

We used it a lot in aviation...

It's used in film labs, too, in glass wheel film polishing machines for acetate stock. They are used to polish away scratches on the base side of the film, usually on pre-print elements before printing or scanning (though sometimes showprints are polished before festival and other high-profile screenings). As you'll see from the description of this one, they are mounted in enclosed cabinets with fume extraction systems. If this nail place is using acetone in large quantities just in the open atmosphere, agreed with everyone above - surely that can't be legal.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-16-2013, 11:27 AM:

Try giving someone at OSHA or the EPA a call about this. Both of those agencies have people who can (and do) make surprise visits to various work places to check compliance with regulations. My own workplace has had visits from those guys, as well as folks from Underwriters Laboratories.

We couldn't run something like a standard solvent-based large format printer in our shop unless it was in its own separately ventilated room and the people using it had proper air masks. FYI, we have what's known as an eco-solvent based printer. It doesn't put out all the toxic fumes.

I'm pretty sure a regulator could walk into just about any nail salon and find all sorts of violations. The fumes smell every bit as bad as those coming from a billboard printer. I see stories all the time about women getting serious fungal infections in their fingernails and toenails due to poor sanitary practices.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-16-2013, 11:51 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
I see stories all the time about women getting serious fungal infections in their fingernails and toenails due to poor sanitary practices.

About a decade ago there was a scandal involving a branch of a well-known British cosmetics and fashion accessories chain store, which at the time was the must-go-to place for teenage and early 20s women. The staff at this place failed to follow the required procedure for cleaning and sanitising the ear-piercing machine between customers, with the result that it became infected with the necrotising fascilitis bug, and about a dozen of them ended up looking like they'd had their ears attended to by Quentin Tarantino. [puke]

The subsequent inquiry revealed more or less what you'd expect: unmotivated and pooly trained minimum wage staff, a manager who couldn't care about anything apart from the takings and a head office that had no interest in monitoring what its franchisees were doing, even if, in this case, one of them very nearly trashed the whole brand.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-16-2013, 12:19 PM:

The thing is that Mom is acting like a doormat. She's just minimizing the situation. I'm pissed off because of the people at the salon but also because Mom is making excuses.

Yes, she did go back into the room after getting sick but that's the way she often acts. On top of that she was probably also high on fumes and not able to think straight. The beautician might also have been guilty of manipulating her back into the room to just "finish up."

I am mostly concerned because she ended up getting so sick that she had to stop the car and throw up. If a person is so sick that they throw up, they are on the verge of poisoning. (If not already poisoned.) She was driving a car in a poisoned, virtually drunken state. She could have easisly been in a car accident.

If that's not bad enough, Mom says that the beautician told her that this has happened before, at least twice. Essentially, they know there is a problem but they are doing little to solve it. Mom said that the woman brought in a fan after she got sick the first time. They KNOW!

You guys are right. If a customer who only stays in the room for fifteen minutes at a time gets sick from the fumes, what are those fumes doing to people who people who spend six to eight hours a day, five days a week in that atmosphere?

I appreciate the chance to rant a little bit. I am not really going to run in their with guns ablazimg. I might feel like it but I know it's not the smart thing to do. If I can get my mom to give me names I think I'm going to pay them a polite visit. She knows I'm pissed off so she'll be hesitant to tell. (Good ol' codependent Mom! [Wink]

)

The overriding concern is that if this happened to my mother and the woman at the salon said it has happened before, how many other women have been sickened by this place? How long will it be before some old lady gets poisoned and ends up in the hospital or gets hurt in a car accident?

I think I am going to go to that place and have a nice talk with them if I can weasel the information out of my mom. Maybe I can ask my stepdad what he knows.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 09-16-2013, 01:20 PM:

You should start with the health department in the town where the salon is located.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-16-2013, 06:19 PM:

quote: Randy Stankey
The thing is that Mom is acting like a doormat. She's just minimizing the situation. I'm pissed off because of the people at the salon but also because Mom is making excuses.

There are some people who have a real, deep-seated fear of confrontation, and will go to almost any extreme to avoid getting into a confrontational situation, even to the extent of putting up with being on the receiving end of outrageous behaviour. I once had to help a close friend through a crisis who is precisely that sort of person, and I can't begin to explain how frustrating it is, especially if it's blindingly obvious to you that just drawing a line in the sand will make the crappy behaviour stop. And of course, the kind of person who is inclined to behave crappily to people will seek out and identify the kind of person who is likely to put up with it, thereby creating a negative feedback loop.

However much it goes against the grain to do so, in the end it's usually easier and less stressful for both parties if you can find a workaround for a situation like that, rather than having to hit it head on. In this case, reporting this place to whatever regulatory authority/ies it comes under would seem to me to be the way to go.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-16-2013, 09:17 PM:

Leo, you have no idea just how much what you said hit home!

There are some old, family issues at play. I was somewhat aware that I was falling into those family dynamics and your comment has validatd that thought.

I am going to let this issue drop, at least with my mother, but I am going to try to find out the name and address of that salon and see if I can find out if they have had a history of this kind of problem. If so, I am going to make a few phone calls to the proper authority.

Thanks for bringing some clarity. It was just what I needed to hear.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-24-2013, 03:40 PM:

Just my two cents; maybe once you find out the address, just call them first and tell them what happened. It might be good to hear their side of the story too. Make sure they know you're serious about it although, especially if they're not cooperating. Depending on that outcome, you can still decide what steps you deem necessary.

I'm telling you this, because it reminds me of something that happened to me: My girlfriend quite recently bought some kind of hairspray, that caused all kinds off havoc in me. It literally took my breath away and I almost fainted. I kept coughing for about 30 minutes afterwards. I packed that shit up and immediately headed to the store she bought this stuff. It was from a common brand and should have all the correct certifications, so I thought that the stuff in the bottle might be some hazardous freak accident in a production run. The store took matters quite seriously, they also gave me another bottle and I sprayed a bit of it on my right hand... The coughing immediately started again... So it looks like I'm allergic to one of the many ingredients in there. Since I didn't want to spend the time on doctors figuring out which one, I left it there. The only thing I did, was that I filed a complaint regarding this product at the responsible local authority. They've let me know that this complaint is new to them, regarding that product, but they will look into it anyways... we'll see...

So, maybe your Mother's situation is a similar freak incident like mine. In that case, who's responsible? That will be a very though question to answer. I wouldn't bet my money on that one although.

Not everything that makes you sick has to be unhealthy for other people. I love peanuts, but some people can die from just a single one. That might also explain why the people who work there, obviously are not suffering from the same symptoms as your mother.

Still, I'm not defending anyone, why should I? Maybe that nail shack is a shithole and it deserves to close, but maybe it is not and nobody did anything wrong on purpose.