Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Displaying a few feet of film as decoration

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Posted by Louie Gonsalves (Member # 7097) on 10-03-2013, 07:53 PM:

Greetings, all.

I have come into possession of about 7.5 feet of film (safety film ;o) that is the closing title card of some random Merrie Melodies short. Post-Schlessinger but not by much, judging by the look of it. I estimate the short to be late 40's early 50's. I have no idea how to date the film itself.

It's in two pieces, at least the cut was along a frameline.

The emulsion side near the cut is in rough shape. Appears to be water spots or some other defect that has caused the emulsion to lift up in little dots / spots. Maybe a foot is so afflicted -- could've been a splice, there's evidence around that area was spliced with tape. Transparent tape of some sort.

The colors are vibrant, at least compared to what I have in the Golden Collection DVDs. Doesn't look faded.

The edgemarks are EASTMAN 30, SAFETY FILM, and two different sequences of numbers which increment as you go down the film: IA648 and S35275 are representative.

My intention is to display this stretch of film as decoration, while preserving it and protecting it from decay. The film seems to be in fairly good shape, doesn't smell funny, isn't sticky. I'm handling it edge-wise and with gloves.

So, my questions:

To clean: Film-guard? I guess a thimble would do me. If the emulsion damage is permanent, no biggie.. this piece will never see a projector again.

To display: I'm thinking some kind of very shallow lightbox, 7 foot long, only as thick as some kind of diffused LED, and wide enough to be able to sandwich the film with acid-free mat by the very outside edges, and sandwich that with plexi -- not allowing anything but the mat to touch the film -- but still show as much of the sprocket holes and soundtrack as possible. I want to show the nuts and bolts, a reminder of a time that has passed forever.

Then I want to bolt the whole thing to the outside doorjamb of my home cinema's entrance. Dimmable LED would be nice, I prefer the lights around the cinema to be on the fairly dim side.

Anyone done anything like this? Care to share? I'm in uncharted waters here.

No scanner, so I can't get frame grabs. Maybe at work tomorrow.

Thanks for reading my rambling questions,

LG

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-03-2013, 11:38 PM:

That solution sounds good, but you should carry it a little further. Get a few dozen more feet of film, and make it a wall decoration or something like that all the way around your room. You could dim it when movies are running.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 10-04-2013, 12:07 PM:

> The edgemarks are EASTMAN 30, SAFETY FILM

Also along the edge is a series of geometric symbols (dots, triangles, plus signs, squares) between 1 and 3 characters long, which are the date code.

If you go to the chart at Kodak Date Chart you can figure out when the film was manufactured. The date codes repeat every 20 years, so the date code for 1963 would be the same as the date code for 1943 and 1923. "SAFETY FILM" tells you that the film was manufactured in 1950 or later.

Note that most of these cartoons were re-issued over the years, so this date may not be the same as when the cartoon was first released, but rather when it was printed.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 10-04-2013, 12:14 PM:

That sounds like a chart that a lot of people would be interested in. Perhaps you could upload it (scan it?) to this website sometime.

***
And just as I posted that you edited your message to include a URL with that chart on it.

Thanks!

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 10-04-2013, 12:19 PM:

I changed my post to link to a version of the chart on the internet. At the moment, I don't have the capability of grabbing it and reformatting it for Film-Tech. Perhaps someone else can.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-04-2013, 02:27 PM:

Here

Posted by Louie Gonsalves (Member # 7097) on 10-05-2013, 02:03 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
That solution sounds good, but you should carry it a little further. Get a few dozen more feet of film, and make it a wall decoration or something like that all the way around your room. You could dim it when movies are running.

I want to keep this one isolated, it's the entire "That's all folks" sequence. Plus, 35mm is vertical, if I go around the room the image will be sideways.

But your idea make me think - Vista Vision and IMAX are both horizontals, no? Use that for a combination molding / light fixture, at the ceiling, all all around the three non-screen walls.

Or more 35mm strips, one in each corner. Either works well. I guess the first thing to be done is sort out the lightbox and film mount, the rest will then just be finding film.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-05-2013, 02:47 PM:

quote: Louie Gonsalves
35mm is vertical, if I go around the room the image will be sideways.

Yeah but if you did it as wall lighting, around the top of the room you could position it high enough that people would see what's in the frame, but not be looking at the image.

By the way....if you're displaying the "that's all folks" segment, you should be displaying that as you EXIT the theater, shouldn't you? [Wink]

Posted by Louie Gonsalves (Member # 7097) on 10-07-2013, 06:52 PM:

quote:
By the way....if you're displaying the "that's all folks" segment, you should be displaying that as you EXIT the theater, shouldn't you? [Wink]

Given the modest size of my so-called cinema, the entrance is also the exit.. so it's really all about how (or when!) you look at it [Wink]

Also, thanks to the links put up by other members in this thread (thanks guys!), I've determined the film was made in Rochester, the datecode is for 1959 or 79. However, in 1979 I was 10, and I don't ever remember a single WB short on the big screen... just made-in-puerto-rico newsreels and ads.

Unable to determine slit number, the pattern on it doesn't match what's on the link Brad put up.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-07-2013, 08:22 PM:

Might I also suggest that you sleeve the film for protection?

Photo stores that process film should have plastic (Mylar?) film sleeves to store the film in when they return it to the customer. If you go to the store and ask them they might give you some or you could buy some from them.

I have occasionally bought plastic film sleeves from my local photo store. They just give it to me. But, then, I also spend a fair bit of money there and the manager there is also a member of the same photography club as I am.

The stuff I get from the photo store comes in long strips. It comes off a large roll. They just pull off a few feet and cut it off. Last time, I just went in and got about ten feet.

The only caveat is that it can be a bitch to get the film into these sleeves. The stuff is designed to be used in strips as long as six frames of film. Short pieces of film like that go in easily. However, when the length of film gets longer, there is more friction and, after about a foot, it gets really hard to put the film inside the sleeve. I have to hook the film by the sprocket holes and pull the film into the sleeve.

120 format film is a real bitch because it is so wide and it doesn't have sprocket holes. I have to cut the film into foot long sections in order to get it in.

If you are going to have film out in the open, I would recommend that it be protected somehow. It doesn't necessarily have to be Mylar sleeves but there should be something protecting it.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 10-19-2013, 09:13 PM:

It's never going to be played; it's not a lost item that has historic archival value, so the idea of going thru all these hoops to preserve it seems like overkill. It's lasted this long without going vineger, it will probably last your life time and beyond without so much as you doing anything extraordinary to it. Sure, clean and coat it with FilmGuard, but beyond that, just hang it up -- it won't magically disintegrate and fall apart on you. It's not nitrate.

I have four pieces of film hanging on my wall in the office -- been there for over 30 years. Nothing has happened to any of them, and one is 4trk mag. I think a small piece of film being in free air will not go vinegar because any acidic gas is not trapped in winds of film around it. Encasing it in plastic sheathing probably is the worst thing your can do.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-20-2013, 06:19 PM:

Point taken but I point out that I have hundreds of film negatives in plastic sheaths that have been stored for thirty years or more that are still just fine. I take them out and scan or print from them and they are just as good as they were when I stored them.

Some of the negatives I made are stored in a time capsule that won't be opened for another 85 years. They are in plastic sleeves, too.

The definitive way to store film photographs (versus motion picture film) is in plastic sleeves or glassine sleeves. I can't imagine why motion picture film treated this way would be any less safe, given identical storage conditions.

Physically, 35mm photographic film is virtually identical to 35mm motion picture film but for some differences in the sprocket holes. Many photographers use them interchangeably.

There may be some differences in the makeup of the emulsion. Base/support might be different thicknesses but, other than that, they are likely the same.

The main difference is probably in the processing. Photographic film is often processed by hand (all of mine is) and in small batches. I am careful to make sure all my film is processed correctly and washed free of any chemical residue that shouldn't be there. Motion picture film processed by machine in large batches might be different. Due to the need to produce thousands and thousands of feet of film per day, shortcuts might be taken. I don't know for sure but, considering the money it costs to produce film, I can't imagine why they would take shortcuts that might cause film to degrade before its time.

The final difference is in the handling. Motion picture film is stored in rolls where photo film is stored flat. There is more film in a roll which can produce byproducts that makes film degrade faster. Photo film, even when encapsulated such that all of those byproducts can't escape there should be fewer byproducts being released that would cause it in the first place.

I will concede... You're not a film archive. This is film that is being kept just for show. If it's not super important, you don't need to go through all of the time and expense to preserve it if you are just going to hang it on the wall.

I only suggested sleeving the film if you really want to.