Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Tips for putting video onto a thumb drive (that will actually play)

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-11-2014, 02:43 PM:

Can anyone give me some insight as to how to do this properly? I've got a bunch of old video that features me and some friends -- too much to fit on a DVD, plus DVDs are going out of style anyway -- so I'd like to put it all on a bunch of thumb drives and give them to all the participants.

What format should I render the files to so they'll work on the majority of USB inputs on TVs and such?

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 06-11-2014, 06:06 PM:

If you include on the stick an installer for the k-lite codec pack, they would just install that if needed and then it pretty much wouldn't matter what you used.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-11-2014, 06:28 PM:

Would that work if a USB stick was plugged into a TV or a BR player, or does it only work on computers?

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 06-11-2014, 06:54 PM:

Mike, you just need to make sure they are in a common video format like AVI, MPG, or WMV. Then all the other person has to do is plug in the thumb drive and select the file to play on a computer or other compatible device. This is exactly what we do for lobby previews, which are played via a Popcorn Hour box to a 720p TV. The contents of the thumb drive are literally just a bunch of video files in the root directory.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-11-2014, 07:36 PM:

h.264 based codecs - it's used by satellite TV and on BluRays. It's also very efficient. Most videoplayers, BluRay-Players, Set-top-Boxes, SmartTVs etc, can deal with it.

The most compatible implementation is MP4 - which is format identical with a Quicktime MOV file containing an MP4 coded video.

It's also very space efficient, and you get loads of free tools to deal with it.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 06-11-2014, 09:01 PM:

I'm waiting for the Day when all your Theatrical Movies/TV Shows will be on those little Flashdrives and all you do is plug them into your PC or TV's USB or HDMI Port. I don't really see DVD'S going away as fast as VHS did but it's probably coming...

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-11-2014, 09:32 PM:

Depending on the device, be it a game console, DVD player, etc. you might need to store the video files into a folder named VIDEO.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-11-2014, 10:27 PM:

OK, well....tonight I tried a USB drive with some AVI and MPG files on it. I plugged it into the USB port on my Oppo BluRay player at the theater.

The MPG files played with no sound.

The AVI file played with no picture.

I have previously tried mp4 files on this same BR player and it won't recognize them at all (won't even list them on the screen).

This is the problem I've had all along. There must be some format that will work in most USB slots. I just want to be able to send drives out to my various friends and have them be able to view them on their TVs.

FYI, I'm using Sony Movie Studio to render these files with, and it seems to have about a zillion options for file types, so SOMETHING oughta work.

I haven't tried this drive on my home TV yet (it's a Panasonic) but will tonight.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-12-2014, 12:31 AM:

Update: Well, I discovered one thing I did wrong -- when rendering the mpg file I missed turning on the "include audio stream" function. So I'll bet it'll work now with that format on the theater BR player at least!

Further update: I just tried this same USB drive in my home blu-ray player (which like the TV is a Panasonic) and ... "this USB device is incompatible."

I may have to go back to my "outmoded" plan of just giving everybody DVDs.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-12-2014, 12:53 AM:

I've had some previous headaches in that regard. I've saved MP4 video files from the Apple Quicktime web site. On my Playstation 3 the video portion would play, but not the audio. Pretty aggravating. What's strange is I could grab the same kinds of MP4 files from sites like YouTube and they would play just fine. What gives?
[Confused]

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 06-12-2014, 12:53 PM:

FYI: (Regarding files that play on some equipment & not on others)-

I had a problem, mostly with MP3 audio files of radio podcasts or of MP3 files
I created to listen to on one or more portable players where the files would
only work in some of the playback devices.

I eventually traced the problem to some ROXIO CD/DVD creation program I had
on my computer. It was always running in the background, even if I was not
actually using the main ROXIO program to create or edit the MP3 files.

ROXIO was apparantly adding some extra info in the MP3 header files which it
used for faster indexing, file sharing and tracking purposes.

Most playback devices simply ignored this extra data, but some devices choked
on it and would either lock up or return a "file corrupted" error message.

I've figured out how to re-configure my computer so that the 'background'
ROXIO program wouldn't start unless I was actually using the ROXIO DVD/CD
creater program to edit or create the files, and that solved my intermittant
incompatability issues.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-12-2014, 03:51 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Further update: I just tried this same USB drive in my home blu-ray player (which like the TV is a Panasonic) and ... "this USB device is incompatible."

Make sure the USB memory stick being used doesn't have a bunch of other executable junk on it. I've seen some that not only take up a drive letter for the flash memory, but also add a virtual CD-ROM drive as well. Those extras might be handy for some people, but they make a USB memory stick less compatible with other devices equipped with USB ports.

Our office copier/printer has a USB port on it to allow users to print certain kinds of documents (such as PDFs, TIFF images, etc.) without having to open the file on a computer. The copier/printer refuses to "see" and USB memory sticks with any of that extra junk loaded on them.

My girlfriend's car is the same way. It's USB multimedia port won't recognize a lot of things plugged into it, like those deluxe-i-fied USB memory sticks or smart phones that won't allow a simple USB connection. A "plain" USB memory stick works fine for playing hours of music.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-12-2014, 03:56 PM:

Use H.264 video and AAC audio in an MP4 container.
Name the file with either "mp4" or "m4v" extension.
Set the file type to "moov" and the owner to "TVOD"
Do those things and the video should play on just about anything including old Macs, assuming proper version of QuickTime installed.

As to getting it to fit on a USB Stick, that's the fun part.

Since you are coming off of a DVD (assume?) you're limited to 720x480 px. That's good right there. That will save you space.
You can go up to 720 rez if you want to save space. Just on special resolution alone, you are saving 50% right there. (As opposed to 1080)
You can save more by cutting down to 1000x720. It's a compromise but, if you can live with the smaller size it will save you another 20%.

Cut your frame rate down to 24 instead of 30 and there is another 20% space savings. Few people watching will know the difference.

Keep your key frames set at twice the frame rate unless you notice a crummy picture, especially around edits. Knock it up to the frame rate if you need. Going any more than that will just waste space unless you need that kind of quality,

For mp4 video, you probably don't need to go higher than 2400 on the bit rate. You might be able to get it down to less than 1200. I've gone as low as 800 but that starts looking crummy. It was definitely a poor compromise but, in that case space was an issue. Had to do it.

For AAC audio you don't need 44 MHz sampling unless you are going to listen on a stereo system. 22 MHz will sound okay on a TV or cheap computer speakers. You can drop the audio bit rate down to 128 or even 96. Again, if it's going to go on cheap speakers, nobody will notice.

I've had to squeeze video onto small USB drives and things like that quite a few times. These are the things I have done to get them to fit in small spaces. I know that there is quite a bit of sacrifice in quality in these settings but, in order to make video fit, this is as low as I dare go.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-12-2014, 03:59 PM:

It does have some other stuff on it, but I moved all of that into a folder called "Content" and then I put the videos in the root directory, and then into a VIDEO folder like you suggested above....it wouldn't work either way. Maybe I need to delete the Content folder?

I'm convinced there probably isn't really a way to make a USB drive that'll play on just about anything with a USB port. (Cue old-guy rant: "SHEEZ, we can put a man on the moon, but we can't even make a USB drive that'll work right!")

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-12-2014, 04:37 PM:

Well, you can't put a DVD into a CD-Player, you can't play a CD-R with Video in any DVD-Player, you can put a DVD into a settop-box or a smart-tv. So, yes, you still need dedicated players for some content.

If your footage is SD, MPEG-2/VOB is another option, if streamlined into DVD or DVB standards.

If you're trying to get the same amount of compatibility as Video-DVDs in DVD-Players, then no, that won't happen. Computer and consumer media formats are a nightmare. MP3 probably comes closest, but video, no...

- Carsten

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 06-12-2014, 06:08 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
I've had some previous headaches in that regard. I've saved MP4 video files from the Apple Quicktime web site. On my Playstation 3 the video portion would play, but not the audio. Pretty aggravating. What's strange is I could grab the same kinds of MP4 files from sites like YouTube and they would play just fine. What gives?

MP4 is a container format. The audio could be mp3, aac, alac, and others. So one of those mp4's used a codec you had and the other didn't.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 06-13-2014, 10:35 AM:

It's fashionable to pick on disc-based media and say it's outmoded, but the great thing about mature technology is that it (usually) "just works."

If you burn a DVD of the videos you have, it will likely play on just about every DVD and Blu-ray player out there. MPEG-2 isn't the greatest format in terms of quality and efficiency, but it's compatible as all get-out.

In my experience with TV's and other devices that have the ability to play media off a thumb drive or DLNA connections is that there is no common denominator format that will be guaranteed to play on every one of them.

I've had video without audio, audio without video, "format not supported," "invalid file format," and a host of other frustrations meet me every single time I've tried to make life easier by copying files to a thumb drive or a network drive. Usually, when I find something that works for one device, I do what I need to get done, and then promptly forget what it was that I did, so the next time I have to do it, I have to climb the same hill all over again.

Your Oppo is probably going to be more compatible with more formats than any other device out there in the mainstream consumer market. Every device manufacturer is going to be different, and I would imagine, each generation within a manufacturer's line will be different as well.

If you haven't already, burn a DVD and you will save yourself a lot of headaches.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-13-2014, 11:28 AM:

You could try uploading the video to YouTube and letting "them" to the heavy lifting for you. From there, you just link your users to the page.

You can mark a YouTube page as "private" or "unlisted" so that only the people who you give the link to will be able to find it.

I have done this for a couple of video editing and production jobs in the past.
Instead of trying to deliver discs, USBs or e-mailing large files, I just post my draft/proof/rough-cut versions of the work on YouTube, mark them as private and forward the link via e-mail. It's quick and dirty, it saves me work and I don't have to worry about the customer coming back and saying "I can't play the video."

Further, you could use a browser extension like "DownloadHelper" to download the video from YouTube and store it on your computer for later distribution. The beauty here is that YouTube's servers will have recompressed the video into a more compatible file. The only problem there is that you might still have problems fitting the files onto a USB stick.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-13-2014, 02:38 PM:

I thought about YouTube but some of these videos have "copyrighted music" in them (background sound) so there's that concern....I don't know how picky they get about this stuff. But I've pretty much decided to go the DVD route, which is what all the participants have been expecting all along anyway.

Thanks all for the info, lots of good food for thought here.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 06-13-2014, 04:49 PM:

I don't know how picky YouTube is about "copyrighted music" in the background if you mark a video as a private video and only authorize those who need to see it. Most of the takedowns of videos happen because some "content owner" files an automated DMCA notice with Google/YouTube.

I agree with the general trend here. Getting this to work on all players/smart TVs/computers/whatnot out there via a thumb drive/USB stick is almost impossible. A "video DVD", while quite limited in quality for modern standards, is at least a standardized format that practically all players are capable of handling.

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 10-03-2014, 05:11 PM:

These things are very picky. I have one of these USB boxes hooked up to my TV (because it doesn't have it's own usb socket) and it is very funny about what it plays. The safest bet is AVI with Xvid video codec. It won't play mp4, however just discovered it will play mkv with the same audio and video stream as the mp4. I just use video conversion software to copy from mp4 to mkv (which only takes seconds since it is not converting anything just re-writing into a new container file) and it'll play fine.

I'd say the safest bet for all around compatability is AVI with Xvid video and MP3 audio.