Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 7 brides for 7 brothers-Stanley Donnen comments

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Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 07-20-2014, 08:17 PM:

I never ever liked Motion Picture Musicals;but for some reason I have always liked this Movie since I first saw it at around 6 years old. I just bought the DVD that was supposed to have the Scope Version and the Flat Version but I only got Disk 1(scope version) so I can't comment on the difference in looks between the two.

I watched the scope version that had commentary from Director Stanley Donnen and found it ironic that since MGM didn't have high hopes for this Film and was going to be a "B" Picture for MGM;that they would have even considered shooting it in Cinemascope since they were worried that many theaters had not been converted yet.

Why would you spend all that extra money shooting an alternate Flat Version for a picture you had no asperations of doing well at the Box Office in the first place. MGM gave big budgets for 2 other productions that year "ROSE MARIE" & "BRIGADOON" which were listed as "A" Films. As Donnen pointed out in his commentary if they had shot only one version of the Film;they probably could have done more location filming instead of most of it being on the MGM Backlot Sound Stages because of a severely slashed budget. Even as a little kid I could spot the painted Backgrounds,matte shots,etc.,but I still enjoyed this Film. Donnen also said shooting the Flat Version cost more than the Scope Version and never was shown in a Movie theater up until 2004. I believe TCM showed the Flat Version. Up til the time that Ted Turner bought MGM's film library, the Flat version sat in a film vault all those years never projected. I don't know if location Shots would have made any difference because the popularity of the Film even stumped MGM Brass because the Film has done leaps and bounds compared to what "Brigadoon" or "Rose Marie" ever did for them.

Doing a little more later research I have found that of the 7 Brothers(Actors) only 3 are still living(Russ Tamblyn-Gideon-Tommy Rall-Frank and Jacques D'Amboise-Ephriam) Two of the Brothers have died in just the last 2 years. One of them(Marc Platt-Daniel) died in March of this year and was 100years old.
When you watch these old Films and everyone is young;you momentarly forget that time stands still for no one and even "Gideon"-Russ Tamblyn is headed for his 80's...

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 07-20-2014, 09:31 PM:

I also loved SEVEN BRIDES FOR SEVEN BROTHERS, Steve. I saw it in CinemaScope and four track mag stereo sound in my hometown theatre, the Waipahu after it finished it's first run at the Waikiki Theatre (#3 in later years a when it was first released and loved it. I normally do not laugh no matter how funny a movie is meant to be but I did during this movie.

I also have the DVD and have both the scope and flat version and prefer the wide screen.

-Claude

Posted by Terry Monohan (Member # 8285) on 07-21-2014, 12:16 AM:

Claude***How does the color look on the CinemScope® DVD and what about the stereo sound, any good surround sound? Did MGM ever come out with a wide screen lens of their own do you know, or did they pay a rental to Fox?

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 07-21-2014, 12:47 AM:

I thought the color was excellent on the normal Scope DVD,I don't know if they have a Blu-Ray version,but the picture quality
on my DVD was excellent.

Something I found quite interesting in looking at a large number of Publicity stills of this Film is you never see HOWARD KEEL(ADAM)Posing with all the other brothers in a Group photo. In photos where the other 6 brothers are present in one shot;he is either in front of them with(Jane Powell(Millie) or away completely. Donnen said in his Commetary that he heard by the wayside that KEEL wanted DONNEN to be replaced with another Director; which DONNEN said he could believe that Rumor. I don't remember ever hearing if there was tension on the set between KEEL and DONNEN but it sounds like they didn't have a very good relationship with each other. As far as KEEL isolating himself from Shots with the other Brothers;that sounds like what a Snob would do if he thought he was the real Actor and these other Acting Brothers were just Dancers and Acrobats(Tamblyn) Actors with EGO's have always made me ill [thumbsdown]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-21-2014, 03:49 AM:

When I ran this in our theatre (35mm 4trk mag), our booth is about 175ft from the screen so I always used binoculars to check focus. In a few of the scenes if you look closely as I was able to with the binoculars, you can see the place markings on the stage floor -- a clear indication that it was filmed on a sound stage.

I do like the film, but have never gotten around to getting it on bluray. I am sure you will be able to see these floor markings in a bluray version.

As for them shooting in flat, did Donen say they shot the WHOLE movie flat, editing and all, for a completed flat release or did they start a dual filming and just give up on it when it was clear that the change over to CinemaScope was fairly swift and most of the theatres were outfitted with the ability to show scope, even if they didn't include mag sound or a full scope screen (letterboxing was thus born).

THE ROBE was also shot partially in a flat version but that was abandoned shortly into the production.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-21-2014, 08:34 AM:

I always liked the muted colours of it and Brigadoon one of the few films shot and printed on Ansco Colour

Posted by Richard P. May (Member # 3598) on 07-21-2014, 09:09 AM:

During the time that Turner Entertainment Co. was the sole owner of the MGM library, I served as VP of Film Preservation. One of our major projects was SEVEN BRIDES.
Having been shot in Ansco Color and CinemaScope, the original camera negative was heavily used for production of release prints. This resulted in considerable damage, especially to the ends of reels. The MetroColor laboratory made replacements for the damaged sections, but using Eastman Color intermediate film instead of Ansco (which by that time was out of use). The EK sections did not match the Ansco, so it was almost impossible to get a uniform look on film. It wasn't until the video transfer with digital assistance that it was corrected.
The film restoration was done 20 years ago by YCM Laboratory. I clearly remember the restored print being shown at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences to a full house, with members of the cast on hand.
As to the flat version, Turner's sound editor, the late Scott Perry (who had spent many years at MGM before Turner), told me that it had a different sound track in order to maintain lip-sync. Even though the dialog was the same, it was shot separately, thus slight differences in matching picture and track. The musical numbers, however, used the same pre-recording in both versions.
The more I watched this movie, the more I appreciated the dance numbers. It is still amazing watching the acrobatics of the barn raising number.
Incidentally, Stanley Donen's name has only one "n".

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 07-21-2014, 06:12 PM:

Steve, all CinemaSope lenses were produced by Baush & Lomb but by 1958, Psnavision was already in business and were manufacturing anamorphic lenses. At that time, MGM began using Panavision scope lenses but continued to use the CinemaScope brand name by paying Fox their fee. This went on for a little while before MGM began using the Panavision brand name instead of CinemaScope. Eventually Fox dropped CinemaScope and they too used Panavision .

Both the color and sound on the SBFSB dvd are excellent. I also have BRIGADOON and it is also a excellent disc with fantastic Ansco a Color and stereo sound. The color in BRIGADOON Is muted but still gorgeous.

-Claude

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-21-2014, 07:08 PM:

Panavision's anamorphic lenses walked all over B&L's anamorphic since Panavision put that diopter in the system to allow closeup shots to keep the same image size on the subject in the middle of the frame and not look distorted since the center on the B&L lens didn't have that much distortion to allow a good 2:1 squeeze.

Thus, when a shot was presented on the screen using B&L lenses for the camera, the center image looked rather slightly stretched.

Panavision removes this distortion with the usage of the diopter to reverse this issue and the results gave a normal look to close up shots.

FOX adopted the Panavision process in 1966. "the Sand Pebbles" was the first FOX film to use the Panavision process.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 07-21-2014, 07:48 PM:

According to Donen This Film was shot in 48 Days which is quite amazing. Those Dance Numbers and Routines at the Barn Raising were rehearsed for something like 3 Weeks. I was always impressed with RUSS TAMBLYN's Acrobatic skills. He was also a talented Dancer as seen in "WEST SIDE STORY"

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-21-2014, 08:26 PM:

Just a personal note here, Hat's off and kudos to Mr. Richard May -- if it weren't for him and his dedication to print quality and making materials available to us little guys, our rep presentations, and I can honestly say, our entire operation would not have been nearly as successful as it was during those years. There were many a time when I would lament to my staff if only Richard were able to be cloned and installed in every "classics" department at every other major studio. He was (and we know he still is) a champion of quality presentation and Film Done Right (our John Pytlak's "FDR")....when there still was film.

It may be a time Gone With the Wind, but I and the tens of thousands of patrons that got to experience the MGM classics the way they should have and it was thanks to his dedication. We were lucky we had him at the helm during that time.

Sir, I thank you and all my film-loving patrons thank you.

Posted by Richard P. May (Member # 3598) on 07-22-2014, 09:28 AM:

Frank,
Thank you for this compliment. There have been a lot of us who are dedicated to motion picture preservation, and it's great having entertainment connected with our jobs.