Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Do customers like curtains?

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Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 12-22-2014, 12:46 AM:

I was delighted last week when a lady stayed till the very end of the show with her grandson. "He wanted to see the curtains close" she explained.
There is hope for the future yet.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-22-2014, 01:53 AM:

I for one, like curtains. Maybe it's also a thing with (almost) extinct things, like dinosaurs. Many like them too, although they're not all that cuddly muddly.

Besides adding another element of show, curtains also still serve a useful purpose. They protect your screen for example.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-22-2014, 04:15 AM:

And when smoking was permitted in cinemas, absolutely essential I'd have thought. OK, the screen wouldn't have been protected during the actual show, but the air inside these auditoria must have been filled with tobacco smoke pretty much 24/7, and the use of screen tabs probably helped to extend the interval between screen replacements.

I am just old enough to remember when smoking was allowed in cinemas. I was born in 1974, and my parents started taking me to the Odeon, Wimbledon, in the late 1970s. At that time a snipe was shown as part of the ad and trailer reel, announcing that if you wanted to smoke, you needed to sit in the right-hand block of seating (which was always packed full as a result, even if the rest of the house was virtually empty). I remember once, probably when I was around 9-10, insisting on sitting to the end of the credits. The cleaners' lights were switched on around halfway through them, revealing the screen surface to be an orangy yellow color! I don't think it would have passed Kodak ScreenCheck, somehow...

If I remember correctly, it wasn't until the mid to late '80s that smoking in (British, at any rate) cinemas finally disappeared entirely.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-22-2014, 05:30 AM:

I briefly worked in a place in the late nineties that still allowed smoking. It was a so called service cinema, which predates the current dinner concepts for quite a few years. They were serving (alcoholic) beverages and snacks to your seat. The place is still around, but stopped allowing smoking after a renovation, a while before it was banned entirely in all public spaces including pubs, bars and restaurants. If you want to allow people to smoke, you would now essentially need to construct a glass container around them. Not very practical in a cinema [Wink]

.

There was no policy about sitting left or right, you could essentially smoke everywhere you wanted... The cigarette smoke surely didn't do anything good to the screen. Everything was covered with a sticky brownish film, which might have contributed to the 70s flair of it all.

As far back as I remember, this place never had any curtains, but it did have (mostly) working movable masking. I'm not sure how much curtains would've helped, it would have made some impact probably. The screens all had some slight yellow staining as nothing seems to be able to escape this vaporized mixture of nicotine and tar, but not as much as you would expect after years of exposure to cigarette smoke.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-22-2014, 05:51 AM:

I know that I've always considered them essential. Classy cinemas have them...without them, you are, at best, only second-rate.

As for smoking...around here, the last cinemas to allow it were the Cinema and Drafthouses of the area (using that name in the general sense rather than the specific brand of view-n-brew). For instance, the Bethesda Theatre Cafe had a smoking section for almost its entire existence. Oh...and IT had a curtain too!

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-22-2014, 10:20 AM:

I think it's still a great stylistic touch to have curtains and a dramatic curtain opening before the start of a show.

The trend of building movie screens without movable masking and curtains is really pretty silly. The philosophy might have been acceptable with a giant sized, peripheral vision filling screen in a 15/70mm film-based IMAX theater. The approach just doesn't work in standard movie theaters with rectangular shaped screens, even the bigger ones charging premium prices. Those screens just look cheap and as if the construction people got to a certain and point, just saying "screw it" and leaving the job incomplete.

The only alternative I've found acceptable at all to curtains is the use of a shadow box, like what the General Cinemas Northpark 1-2 theater in Dallas had. The screens at least had movable masking.

Regarding smoking in theaters, I remember seeing movies in theaters that allowed smoking when I was a kid. It was usually in some Marine Corps base theater. I'm not sure when the theaters started banning smoking though, but I seem to recall a lot of the policy changes happening in the early 1980's.

While smoking is a filthy, disgusting habit and does a lot to stain white things like movie screens, it did have one cool side effect: the smoke really made the light beams from the film projector highly visible. I remember watching the beams as they moved around and changed with the action on the screen. You can't really see that visual effect in today's smoke free auditoriums.

Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-22-2014, 11:06 AM:

quote: Ron Curran
I was delighted last week when a lady stayed till the very end of the show with her grandson. "He wanted to see the curtains close" she explained.
There is hope for the future yet.

I always liked curtains and grew up watching them open when the picture started. I think they are cool.

But I wouldn't hold out any hope for them every returning, I think a large PLF screen with speakers all over the sides and roof is what people find impressive today.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-22-2014, 11:17 AM:

News flash, Terry. It's not an either-or proposition. A theater can install surround speakers all over the walls and ceilings and still install a screen equipped with movable masking and curtains.

For example, yesterday I watched the latest Hobbit movie in a theater equipped with Dolby Atmos as well as curtains, masking and a huge common height screen (Harkins Cine Carpi theater in downtown Oklahoma City).

Warren Theaters has two new 4K laser projection equipped houses in their new Broken Arrow Warren theater in Broken Arrow, OK. Those big screens have curtains as well as Dolby Atmos.

Dolby Atmos doesn't deserve any blame at all for theaters installing screens without curtains or masking. IMAX has been pulling that nonsense with its digital projection theaters for years, despite being stuck with mere 5.1 audio. They're only now getting around to improving on that. But there's still no sign they'll add curtains.

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 12-22-2014, 11:42 AM:

Our customers like our tab (curtains) here in Leeds. It's good when changing from w/s/flat/1.85 etc to scope to close the curtains and then open out to the wider picture for impact -if you are lucky enough to have common height.

As for the smoke, I remember when I first started projectioning back in 1988 my trainer telling me to close the curtains at the end of the night but to open the masking out fully as the smoke lingered behind it, so that it was not trapped behind the screen.

That is one of the things that fascinated the first time I saw a film (Bambi) was the beam of light through the smoke and the curtains opening out - I spent most of the show looking at the window wondering what was happening back here and also at the ornate illuminated Odeon clock on the rear wall (that cinema is long gone now)

Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-22-2014, 11:46 AM:

quote: Steve Moore
It's good when changing from w/s/flat/1.85 etc to scope to close the curtains and then open out to the wider picture for impact -if you are lucky enough to have common height.

Nice showmanship!!!

Posted by Alan Plester (Member # 852) on 12-22-2014, 01:15 PM:

YES YES YES the magic definitely isn't there, when a lens change takes place, and everyone sees the masking go out, to my mind its horrible, and I cringe every time it happens when I go to the flicks. We have a 4screener where I live, and only one screen has tabs, I relive the magic of yesteryear, showmanship was lost when they took tabs away, we had one in Banbury with festoons, they took my breath away when I was a child, that's what started a 20yr love

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 12-22-2014, 02:01 PM:

Have many cinemas been built with curtains in the recent years?

quote: Steve Moore
close the curtains at the end of the night but to open the masking out fully as the smoke lingered behind it, so that it was not trapped behind the screen.

I remember being told to do the same (long after smoking in cinemas had stopped). I think the theory was that the overnight dirt would collect evenly on the screen, rather than have a cleaner section behind the masking.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 12-22-2014, 02:33 PM:

Who WOULDN'T like curtains!?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-22-2014, 02:49 PM:

As most longtime readers know, my theater used to have curtains until they basically wore out and wouldn't work anymore. They were electric of course but were manually operated by the projectionist, due to not being able to work with automation cues.

Since we took down the curtains we've had a set of spotlights aimed at the screen at extreme angles from the bottom corners, so it makes streaks of colorful light across the screen which fade out as the show starts. At Christmastime we add an additional set of lights in the middle. It's not a curtain but it's the next best thing, I guess.

The good news is, I've been saving my nickels and dimes and hope to put in a set of curtains in the next year or two. It's been on my wish list for... well ever since the old ones stopped working. It's going to be somewhat of a challenge because the screen goes to within a foot of the walls.

One question -- since we run ads, what's the proper thing to do? Close the curtains for a minute or so at the end of the ads and then open them again on the beginning of the actual program? (That's what we do with our "curtain lights" now.) Or would it be better to run the trailers first right after the ads and then do the close/open as the feature begins?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-22-2014, 03:13 PM:

Mike, use curved track and have the curtains bunch up on the side walls.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-22-2014, 03:16 PM:

At the Mann Chinese 16 in Aurora we closed the curtains for 2 minutes before showtime and then opened them back up when the film hit the screen (we also hid masking changes, if any, behind the curtains since we were common-width). These days the ad people like you to run ads at least 3 minutes past the advertised start time. When the start time comes up, the "Please turn off ya cell phones and thanks for watchin' First Look" comes up. Then another couple of ads. Then the policy trailer. Then if you're lucky only 9 trailers. Then the iMAX logo. Then hopefully only 5 more trailer. This is how Regal does it and I really am not exaggerating.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-22-2014, 03:41 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
One question -- since we run ads, what's the proper thing to do? Close the curtains for a minute or so at the end of the ads and then open them again on the beginning of the actual program? (That's what we do with our "curtain lights" now.) Or would it be better to run the trailers first right after the ads and then do the close/open as the feature begins?

Most houses around here that still have curtains close them after the pre-show. It's also a great "STFU cue" for the audience.

Personally, I like it when the movie starts while the curtain is being opened, so it starts with the studio logo(s), slightly out of focus, on the curtain. It somehow feels grand.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-22-2014, 04:52 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
One question -- since we run ads, what's the proper thing to do? Close the curtains for a minute or so at the end of the ads and then open them again on the beginning of the actual program?

Harkins' Cine Capri screen closes its curtains for a couple minutes at the end of the ads program. A couple or so minutes later the curtains re-open for the main program.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Personally, I like it when the movie starts while the curtain is being opened, so it starts with the studio logo(s), slightly out of focus, on the curtain. It somehow feels grand.

Some theaters have a thin, translucent "bride's veil" like interior curtain precisely for that effect. The main curtains are one layer. The translucent curtains are on a second layer closer to the screen. It gives off a nice illusion of depth, more like the screen is really a window or opening rather than a flat, white object.

Meanwhile, in the IMAX-wannabe theaters (IMAX branded or not) the screen looks more like an unfinished trampoline just begging you to bounce pennies, Junior Mints™ or whatever else off the thing.

Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-22-2014, 05:02 PM:

quote: Joe Redifer
Then if you're lucky only 9 trailers. Then the iMAX logo. Then hopefully only 5 more trailer. This is how Regal does it and I really am not exaggerating.

Around here we are pretty lucky for IMAX, just one trailer then the IMAX countdown and then the movie.

AVX with Atmos is the worst:

Scotiabank
Coke
WIND cell phone
Telus cell phone
Virgin Mobile cell phone
Rogers Roam cell phone
Lexus
Buy your tickets at Cineplex.com
Don't Text during the movie
Coming Soon Snipe
Trailer 1
Trailer 2
Trailer 3
Trailer 4
Trailer 5
Don't Kick the seats Snipe
Please put on your 3D glasses
Feature Presentation Snipe
AVX Snipe
Dolby Atmos snipe (choice of Leaf, Unfold, Amaze)

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-22-2014, 05:42 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Some theaters have a thin, translucent "bride's veil" like interior curtain precisely for that effect. The main curtains are one layer. The translucent curtains are on a second layer closer to the screen. It gives off a nice illusion of depth, more like the screen is really a window or opening rather than a flat, white object.

Yeah, I know what you're referring to. I've seen those "double curtains" just a handful of times though and have no clue how you actually name it.

One of the cinemas in the vicinity has also almost gone a bit over the top with their curtain construction. In an otherwise rather undecorated box, you'll find one heck of a curtain-fest:

I couldn't find a better picture, but it gives a nice impression.

They also close and open the curtains between pre-show and feature. Those side bands in the middle move up into the boxes above them. (The strange side masking described by Frank in this topic reminded me of this "contraption") Those half-circle curtains move first, then the main curtains behind them open.

They close the other way around. The whole thing is both impressive and slightly funny to witness.

quote:
AVX with Atmos is the worst:

Don't forget to mention it's all the fault of big evil Atmos, because AVX without Atmos doesn't have any of those nagging commercials, trailers and snipes. [Big Grin]

Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-22-2014, 05:57 PM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Don't forget to mention it's all the fault of big evil Atmos, because AVX without Atmos

Marcel, the big problem with Cineplex is that they advertise Dolby Atmos for every AVX feature, or at least they were doing that. So there really is no AVX without Atmos. I wonder if Dolby was afraid to say anything to Cineplex as they might of been worried of losing future sales as the Dolby is no longer the relevant brand it once was.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-22-2014, 06:08 PM:

Let's not start the old Atmos/Cineplex discussion in a topic about curtains. OK?

On a side note... The picture above is also from a complex part of a franchise based chain called... Cineplex. So, some Cineplexes on this globe do have curtains on their biggest screens [Wink]

Posted by Mark Campbell (Member # 4411) on 12-22-2014, 06:45 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
The only alternative I've found acceptable at all to curtains is the use of a shadow box, like what the General Cinemas Northpark 1-2 theater in Dallas had. The screens at least had movable masking.

A shadowbox screen with moveable masking? In the GCC's I grew up with the screen seemed to touch the box - no gap. Like looking in a shoebox. How do they achieve this?

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 12-22-2014, 07:55 PM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Yeah, I know what you're referring to. I've seen those "double curtains" just a handful of times though and have no clue how you actually name it.

They are properly known as the traveller curtain and the title curtain. There were always variations from house to house and operator to operator on how and when they were to be opened (and I came in at the end of the whole tradition), but typically both would be opened for the trailers, cartoon, travelogue or what have you. Then, the title curtain only would be closed and the lights would be taken to feature level, and the changeover to the first reel of the feature would happen, with the title curtain held closed through the studio logo until the actual movie title hit it. Of course, what happened was that movies started to come out that had a considerable amount of exposition before the title, rendering the whole thing pointless.

A certain amount of older cinema-goers still seem to like this sort of thing, but nowadays people seem to think its pretentious. When I saw the 70mm Interstellar at the Ziegfeld last month, the curtain opened and closed a couple of times, and there were audible groans from the crowd.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 12-22-2014, 08:57 PM:

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens
So there really is no AVX without Atmos.

Actually Scotiabank AVX #1 in Vancouver does not have Atmos, and believe me they show the exact same about of ads as the Atmos houses.

I do like curtains, and IMO they should be used at the very start and the very end of the show. In between trailers and features seems a bit excessive.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-22-2014, 10:47 PM:

Warren Theaters does their curtain opening only once. They have no pre-show ad slides or dimly limit video commercials. They have house music playing between shows. That's all. Their pre-show consists of a policy trailer, maybe one or two movie trailers "attached" to the feature, a THX trailer and then the movie itself.

This is more along the lines of how it was when I was watching movies in 70mm at the Ziegfeld theater over 20 years ago.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-22-2014, 11:07 PM:

When I learned projection, I was taught to open the curtain when the previews hit the screen. The idea being that the audience should absolutely NEVER look at a blank white screen, which I still believe in (hence our lights).

The red and green lights in the middle and the small string across the front of the stage are only used during the Christmas season. We occasionally change out the colors on the other six lights for different occasions. All green for St. Patrick's day is a favorite, or red/white/blue for Independence Day.

We never did close the curtain between the previews and the feature, but the Montana Theatre in our neighboring town of Miles City did -- they had a really cool waterfall curtain, which now does not function anymore, so I'm told.

I will have to admit that I've never had a customer mention that we "would be a nice theater if only we had curtains." I don't care though, I still want one.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-22-2014, 11:30 PM:

We closed our curtains between the trailers and the feature presentation snipe as well. I thought that this was stupid so we quickly stopped. The only time after that I ever closed the curtains after the show started was that one Jim Carrey movie where he plays Andy Cough-Man. He comes onscreen for a minute or two in the beginning and then walks off for a VERY long time. I had the curtains close and the lights come up after he left and then re-open etc as he came back on. Lots of work timing that sequence for a movie that maybe 20 people came to see during the entire run of the print. I heard one guy laugh as the curtains were closed so I guess it was worth it.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 12-22-2014, 11:53 PM:

As a Kid growing up watching Movies at Single Screen Theaters;you just took Screen Curtains for Granted. They all seemed to be Similar in every theater;Crimson Red with Sparkles all over them.The projectionist at one theater I remember started the projector when they were closed and you saw a film image verses seeing a White Screen when fully opened. Same on the Endings;just as it was getting to the end Credits,the Curtains slowly started to Close. That's the way I was use to seeing Movies.

When I went to a Carmike Multiplex here(Wynnsong 10)a couple months ago;The theater we were in had the largest Screen in the Complex. It was as large as many of the old Single Screens I remembered. I was thinking at the time how much better it would have been for this particular theater to have an old school Curtain Styling for that large of a Screen. It certainly would have made some older folks feel like they were back in the old days off watching movies. I just feel IMHO that it adds a touch of Class to something that has become plain jane looking in many multiplexes. It's like seeing two same year/model/color vintage Cars, only one of them has all the chrome trim and detailing. That's the one your attracted too. Multiplexes for the most part have taken away the old movie expierence from back in the day;I'm sure they could purchase Curtains for at least their Nicest Theater when their showing the Blockbuster Films.It might make you feel that 12 bucks you plopped down wasn't in vain. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-23-2014, 02:34 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I will have to admit that I've never had a customer mention that we "would be a nice theater if only we had curtains." I don't care though, I still want one.

I guess, sometimes it's good to "tell" the customer a bit of what they want, because they often do not know what they are missing. Let's call it the "Disney factor": Attention to detail might get lost on many people, but there are still plenty around that value it greatly, or will evolve into beings that will start to appreciate it later on.

I think your "virtual curtains" are a nice touch, at least a great step up from what has become the norm. Now imagine those things in combination with a curtain [Wink]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-23-2014, 03:16 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
As most longtime readers know, my theater used to have curtains until they basically wore out and wouldn't work anymore.

I worked at a UCI 6-plex in London for a few months in 1991. All of the auditoria had curtains ("screen tabs" in British lingo), which were out of use, permanently open and disconnected from the automation system. The chief told me that they were used for about six weeks after the place opened, until the management had Carousel slide projectors installed to show adverts during the walk-in instead. At that point the curtains were left open and never used again.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-23-2014, 05:56 AM:

Mike...how much room do you have above your screen? If you have the stacking room...water-fall curtains are an option too. Just make sure you get a fast rise curtain motor speced in. Otherwise, it will take over a minute to get them to come up with typical motors/wench.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-23-2014, 07:23 AM:

The Byrd Theatre in Richmond, VA. had (has? I have, sadly, not been there for a while) the classiest ad presentation ever, using their Brenograph slide projector. They would start with the theatre's logo opening with an "iris" effect onto the curtain, then they would raise the curtain and cycle through the ads. This would end with the theatre logo, the curtain closing, and then a "close-iris" effect as the curtain lights rose.

Mike--if/when you get curtains, try to find someone who is good with stage lighting to figure out how to light up the curtain and make it look super-classy. A creative lighting guy can do quite a bit for very little money.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 12-23-2014, 07:40 AM:

Regarding today's audiences and curtains, I think of the reaction I saw at the El Capitan, Disney's premiere showplace theater in Hollywood, CA operated by Pacific. That theater had both a main drape and a second title curtain made out of shiny metallic streamer ribbons. During weekday screenings without the live-action stage preshow, the theater will screen a trailer package, then close the title curtain momentarily while changing the masking if needed, then open the curtain for the main feature, all accompanied with curtain lighting cues.

I attended a screening of the Studio Ghibli film Princess Mononoke there during its US first run in 1999. The bewildered audience laughed when the title curtain closed at the end of the trailer package. Guess they were unaccustomed to seeing such old-school technique leading into the feature presentation.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 12-23-2014, 10:15 AM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
the air inside these auditoria must have been filled with tobacco smoke

Smoking in theaters was still commonplace when I started working in the 1970's.
Very often, in theatres without balconies, the return air plenum for the
heating & air conditiong systems was located either at the front of the
auditorium, or in worst case, backstage.
(causing the perforated screen to act as an ersatz air filter.

I recall that at one theater where they did this and if you went backstage
and rubbed your finger along the back of the screen, your fingertip
would actually be covered with a gummy-brown nicotine residue from
several decades of smoke-filled air.

Several years ago, I was brought in to do some work at an old San Francisco
theatre. While working, I made a comment asking if they still used their
curtain.
Not only was it never used, they didn't even know they HAD a curtain.
(and that manager had been there for at least 8 years)

So, while I was there, I did a quick check of the curtain motor and ropes,
etc, to make sure they were in functional condition, and closed the
curtain, for the first time in who-knows-how-many years.

D'oh! Unfortunately, the curtain, after being open for so many years,
had become both moth and mold-eaten. It had multiple stains and holes.
How unfortunate, as it looked like at one time it had been a nice piece
of drape. The theatre's owners were not interested in spending any money
to repair it, so we opened the curtain again & pulled the fuse outta
the curtain motor controller.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 12-23-2014, 10:57 AM:

Most of the theaters I worked had curtains. Open for the shorts and trailers then close to allow masking change (if needed) for the feature. It was a sin to allow the audience to ever see a blank screen. At the KB Baronet an usher would go backstage to drop the top masking for scope pictures as soon as the curtain was closed.

Then came the shadowbox screens, but those used colored lights instead of a curtain. Dim the lights 1/2 way, start the show then fade down and no lighting change after the trailers.

As Scott noted above, the Byrd did quite a classy presentation. The booth has an elaborate switchboard which is on the other end of the booth from the Brenograph. Bill would run the slides and Gary the board. On Saturday night they'd focus a spot on a mirror ball during the segue from the organ to the feature.

In my opinion a theater without curtains is just a screening room.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-23-2014, 11:49 AM:

quote: Scott Norwood
Mike--if/when you get curtains, try to find someone who is good with stage lighting to figure out how to light up the curtain and make it look super-classy. A creative lighting guy can do quite a bit for very little money.

Definitely. I kind of got fired up again about this a couple of months ago when we went to a comedy show at a "live" theater. This place has a black stage curtain, but they had red lights on it so it looked like a red curtain. It looked really classy. That's along the lines of what I want to do.

Posted by Richard Orsak (Member # 4472) on 01-04-2015, 02:42 PM:

Hey Mike, are those Halogen lights you are using...spots?

Thanks!

Richard

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 01-04-2015, 02:58 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson

Warren Theaters does their curtain opening only once. They have no pre-show ad slides or dimly limit video commercials. They have house music playing between shows. That's all. Their pre-show consists of a policy trailer, maybe one or two movie trailers "attached" to the feature, a THX trailer and then the movie itself.

And the "Voice of the Theatre" a pre-show audio announcer who promotes upcoming events or movies or what not. He regularly notes "The curtain is going up" (and it does, right on cue).

The Warren IMAX has the most ridiculous curtain rising you'll ever see. There's fanfare music and a light show and everything short of pyro.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-04-2015, 03:06 PM:

Have you had a chance to check out one of the two Grand Infinity screens at Warren's new Broken Arrow location? I'll bet the curtain opening is interesting on those screens.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 01-04-2015, 06:45 PM:

No. But I will later this month or next.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-04-2015, 09:27 PM:

Richard - they are just incandescent spots. The bulb is #4515. Those lights have been repurposed from my days as a dance DJ, we used to use them over the dance floor.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 01-04-2015, 09:29 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Some theaters have a thin, translucent "bride's veil" like interior curtain precisely for that effect. The main curtains are one layer. The translucent curtains are on a second layer closer to the screen.

And with that you took me right back to my childhood. I can almost taste the cigarette smoke...

Posted by Terry Monohan (Member # 8285) on 01-04-2015, 09:50 PM:

I was just thinking about all the multiplex or single screen large theatres without a nice set of moving curtains, some have no room on the top or sides so they say when I ask the owners. Now It seems like some smart digital creators can up with a digital set of curtains in all colors and styles to just sit and project on the boring white screen for what time you want after or before the ads or main feature then have them go up or sideways and show the feature. Are there any places out there to come up with something nice and easy to program in this no showmanship digital age?

Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 01-05-2015, 10:48 AM:

quote: Sam Graham
The Warren IMAX has the most ridiculous curtain rising you'll ever see. There's fanfare music and a light show and everything short of pyro.

Yikes, what's next? NBA style cheerleaders or a Warren Cinemas mascot jumping through the a flaming hoop before the show....

Posted by Terry Monohan (Member # 8285) on 01-06-2015, 12:24 PM:

Another Idea I had on digital fake curtains projected on a blank white screen have them move a little on the bottom like a small draft or wind is blowing them. This will make them look more real. Also lets see who does the best digital tricks like a little dog or cat looking out once In a while out of the middle curtain seam. Your family crowd will love this added curtain feature. Please no rats or mice. Just before the movie starts turn the LED color on the bottom of the phony drapes to a dark Purple/Red/Blue and dim them.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-06-2015, 02:02 PM:

Digital curtains would be cool IF they were video of real curtains. There are a couple of "curtains opening" videos on YouTube that are stupid-looking because it's just a picture of curtains that divides in the middle and the two halves just glide outwards. Not realistic at all.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-06-2015, 04:48 PM:

Mike look at one of the Smilebox Blu-Rays...in particular the one for This Is Cinerama. They actually shot real curtains opening and then used them to open the video...they have the right amount of "flutter" and everything as they settle.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-06-2015, 05:10 PM:

You will also need at least two versions of your phony digital curtains, a scope and a flat version, because I guess you don't want to change formats after the opening of your digital curtains?

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 01-07-2015, 08:39 PM:

As a guy who loved watching movies in the cinemas ever since I was a little kid, love the old style cinemas, and all, I gotta say while it is nice to have, it is not a major factor in allowing me to choose one theater over the other. Just give me a great projected image. A clean theater. Comfortable chairs. Good sight lines. Easy parking. And I am happy.

Also, I hate it when some theaters used to close the curtains between previews and the main features. What's up with that? You can't do redo that affect. What is the screen? Some stripper who is already undressed, then dresses up again and then undresses?

It is kind of classy to see the curtains open. But I don't give a damn to see them close. I am out of the theater before the closing credits end anway.

The only time aesthetics of the screen bother me is those mini Imax screens that are unmasked and look like someone hung a huge piece of white drywall in front of the real screen.

So I guess curtains are cool to have. But other than showcase screens in a multiplex or a single theater arthhouse which needs the ambience, I don't blame if owners want to some cost cutting on them.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 01-08-2015, 10:28 AM:

quote: Pravin Ratnam
I hate it when some theaters used to close the curtains between previews and the main features. What's up with that?

Closing the curtains between the preshow and feature is good showmanship, it is a good signal to the audience that the main feature is about to start.

In one venue I worked the lens changes were manual, no turrets etc., so closing the curtains gave enough time to do that.

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 01-08-2015, 04:13 PM:

It just comes across as timeconsuming for me. We have already seen the screen.I would rather see fewer ads so that when we come on time, we are greeted by a screen covered with a curtain. Then it opens in a grand manner. Closing the curtain once you have already seen some previews and then opening them just seems contrived to me. More power to those who enjoy it.But I am just giving feedback as a consumer that even a traditional moviegoer likes me who appreciates aesthetics in the auditorium doesn't care for the curtains closing and then opening again. We have been watching that screen for 5-15 min already. So there is no mystique in anything getting revealed as those curtains close and reopen. Once before the promos is enough.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 01-08-2015, 04:34 PM:

It was policy to never let the audience see a white screen or adjustments to masking. Closing curtains between the shorts and the feature allowed the masking change to be invisible.

Okay, so what about if everything was flat?

The policy was to close the curtains anyway. It added a degree of showmanship sorely lacking in all but a few of today's theaters.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-08-2015, 06:14 PM:

quote: Steve Moore
It's good when changing from w/s/flat/1.85 etc to scope to close the curtains and then open out to the wider picture for impact -if you are lucky enough to have common height.

I was Chief Projectionist at our 1100 seat palace and we had scribs and waterfall curtains.

Plus, we had full adjustable maskings - vertical and horizontal maskings with numerous stops to go from full 1.37:1 academy down to 2.55:1 for full Mag Scope releases.

Course, we had the preview reel in flat.

Thus, on CinemaScope features, the curtain cues were added to the last trailer for us to close the scribs (title curtains), do the masking change, then the changeover would show the trademark on the scribs as they were opening.

Feature ending was the same: curtain cues to bring in the scribs and when the scribs were halfway closed, to drop the main waterfall curtain.

It was a total and unforgivable sin to have a bare screen exposed.

To the public, the screen never existed, but a "portal" of sorts to be opened for the public for their viewing entertainment.

THAT was showmanship to the letter handed down for generations at this theatre.

-Monte

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-08-2015, 06:57 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
It was a total and unforgivable sin to have a bare screen exposed.

Yes. I can still hear my old boss lecturing me: "You absolutely NEVER, EVER let the audience see a blank screen." He put the same importance on that as keeping the carbon arcs steady. As a kid I never quite got why it was so important but now I do and to this day I hate it if the screen ever goes blank or if patrons happen to start coming in before I get the "curtain lights" turned on.

Posted by David J Hilsgen (Member # 2614) on 01-08-2015, 07:09 PM:

I have curtains in all 12 screens here at the willow creek in plymouth, mn. all still working.do all my own repair work ,the last 25 years. they are the water fall type ,the audience loves them.i also have top & side motorize masking, , i do the curtain calls ,this use to be a cineplex odeon theatre & was 8 screens. when mullers bought it & added 4, they did right & put curtains in the new 4 theatres even though we have screen ads.

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 01-08-2015, 08:02 PM:

David, I was in MN late last year for business and arranged my trip so that I could see Interstellar at your theater. I was staying at the La Quinta around the corner. Frontier screwed up my flight and I got in too late. Now I'm even more bummed. It sounds like a classy place.

I love curtains. They add to the magic.

I hate screen ads before a movie. They feel cheap.

But what I really hate are marks on the screen. It's terribly distracting when there is a scratch or blotch or smear or something. It's also very common. And I suspect that most of those marks would not be there if a curtain was protecting the screen between shows.

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 01-08-2015, 08:03 PM:

I think the customers seeing the masking expand the width of the screen in common height screens is actually a good effect. Whenever the screen gets wider, I remember my friends and others around me being impressed that the screen got much bigger. It doesn't work so good when the top and bottom masking is used for common width screens though.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 01-08-2015, 08:46 PM:

quote: David J Hilsgen
I have curtains in all 12 screens here at the willow creek in plymouth, mn. all still working.do all my own repair work ,the last 25 years. they are the water fall type

Can you make some videos of these? Film_Tech would probably host these (and a theatre tour) if you don't want to youtube them. I have only seen rail based transverse and flown curtains (in live theatre).

When was this site built (the 8 and the final 4)? My local 1930 former (UK) Odeon had curtains in all 5 post-split screens until its close, including the (now demolished) screens built on its former stage area in 1990.

Posted by David J Hilsgen (Member # 2614) on 01-08-2015, 09:53 PM:

Mark it started construction in dec 1987 opened may 5 1989 the other 4 opened dec 2002 i`ll have my co worker in the booth do some videos sometime

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-09-2015, 06:39 AM:

The concept of a "curtain call" goes all of the way back to the live-stage and vaudeville. The curtain for live acts is used to "hide" the change of acts coming/going on stage. When movies came out and were in theatres, not unlike their live counterparts, the concept of changing the "acts" remained. So when one transitioned from one act to another, you would have a curtain call. This can be from previews to feature or ads to previews...etc. Each act is unto itself. And yes, showing a "blank screen" is a sin and ruins the "magic."

One should not think of their movie experience as "looking at the screen." They should be looking at the movie which should replace the sense of looking at the screen but instead transform the viewer into the story that is being told. It is one reason flat screens have always been problematic for cinemas and just about every form of "enhancing" the movie experience has been to somehow make the screen unflat and more real-world sensing. That can be curved, 3-D (blech), dome, spherical...etc. Even "escape" is an attempt to eliminate the flat screen appearance.

The problem with non-flat screens are the geometric distortions that will typically ensue if special optics (or now digital distortion) are not used to deal with where the projector is with respect to the screen. However, those that prefer flat screens have merely acclimated to the perspective distortions of a flat screen. If you don't sit dead-center screen, your perspective on a flat screen will be a bunch of trapezoids...take a picture of the screen from your seat position...it will not look rectangular but a trapezoid.

Clearly, I've drifted off topic so lets pull that back. At the Uptown in DC (or the KB Cinema), when we had a flat previews in front of a scope feature (the notion of flat and scope versions of all previews was really more a later concept), I would always close the curtain between previews and feature. You think seeing the screen expand via masking is cool...for most, they will have opened whatever curtain they have to reveal a sea of black drape so the audience already has seen your hand. I only opened the grand drape enough to show the flat screen (had to, the Uptown didn't have motorized maskings)...so at the conclusion of the preview reel, I'd close the curtain down on the credits of the last preview and pull the curtain open all of the way for the scope feature. Let me tell you, if you are not ready for it, few things are more impressive than seeing a Cinerama screen (which is what the Uptown had/has) open way up for scope when you've only been seeing a portion of it. If you are sitting in the front half of the theatre, it wraps around you. A curtain call can definitely heighten the effect.

And yes, a curtain is essential to keeping a screen to last longer.

I do get, the generation that is watching movies today never grew up with classy theatres with the full drapery treatment (remember when appliances like TVs were furniture?) however, even "kids" can get when a performance is better than just seeing the movie. Don't get me wrong, you can't put lipstick on a pig (well you can but who would want to?)...you can fix a shoddy theatre/show with a curtain. But you can definitely put the icing on the cake by having a proper show that was worthy of going out in the first place. A curtain can certainly add to that.

The singles that have survived into this era have generally also had a performance that was notably better than the "mall" theatres or , at least, perceived to be better and something that one would not get in the home.

Again, if you want to be a 1st class theatre, you need (and to use) a grand drape, anything less is, at best, 2nd rate. And now, if you don't have proper masking to block off the unused screen, you are downright low-rent. Letterbox/Pillarboxing is for the home...and even they go out of their way to avoid that. Should be start stretching the image to ALWAYS fill the screen? Consumers have shown they will "put up" with that in numerous sports bars around the world.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 01-10-2015, 07:28 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Have you had a chance to check out one of the two Grand Infinity screens at Warren's new Broken Arrow location? I'll bet the curtain opening is interesting on those screens.

You were NOT wrong. Details in my "Taken 3" review, but here's a pic of the beast.

Posted by Gary Benn (Member # 7858) on 01-20-2015, 08:11 AM:

We have an interval after the ads and trailers with the curtains closed, send an ice-cream tray down to the front by the screen, after the interval the curtains reopen with the please don't talk, turn off your phone etc, then dolby 7.1 title then the film.

All masking changes are hidden behind the curtains during the interval.