Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Learning to play a piano

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Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 04-08-2015, 12:36 AM:

A lot of the folks on this message board are really smart and artistic dudes, so you will be a great source of advice since I've never tried anything like this before.

I got the idea a little while back that it might be interesting to learn to play a piano. My scheme, such as it is, would be to purchase a digital piano of some sort, then get whatever lessons I need off of ye olde Internet, play around with my piano and see what happens. My ultimate goal would be to be able to play boogie, since I've always got a big kick out of that musical style. I'm sure that in the near term, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star will be more like what I could actually manage to plink out. [Smile]

I did teach myself to read sheet music several years ago with the purpose of adding music to some computerized birthday and Christmas cards and I think a game or two that I wrote at that time. I vaguely recall ripping off some Beethoven and some Dixieland riffs from some sheet music that I found around that time; must have been a program of some sort. But that was all 20+ years back, I've had no reason to look at anything similar since, and I've pretty much forgotten what I used to know about it. I still remember that middle C is in the middle. [Big Grin]

My knowledge of music in general (outside of listening to it) is pretty much nil.

Do any of you fine folks have any recommendations for someone in my position who's never had much exposure to that sort of thing up to this point? I figure if kids can do this, I see no reason why I can't manage it.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-08-2015, 01:49 AM:

I took piano lessons for several years and then switched over to organ (I liked the sound of the organ better -- more variety). About 10 or 11 years of lessons in all.

I don't know how successful you would be with lessons off the internet, since you don't have somebody there pointing out what you're doing wrong. And, I can definitely say that playing well is NOT as easy as a good piano player makes it look. But the results of hard work and practice are very rewarding.

I would suggest finding a teacher for at least the fundamentals, maybe a year's worth of lessons, and then decide from there if you want to consider internet lessons or continue with personal instruction. That's the route I'd take, at least. From personal experience it would be hard to beat the personal instruction route - for one thing, it's a lot more motivating to keep going when you hit rough patches.

Caution: If you let it slip that you're a piano player, you will soon get inundated with requests to play music at churches, weddings, funerals and the like, so be careful who you brag about your new-found talent to. Unless of course you're the type who LOVES to play in front of as many people as possible... in that case let us know when your debut CD comes out! [Big Grin]

Posted by Rex Oliver (Member # 7593) on 04-08-2015, 02:14 AM:

While on the appliance and vacuum site forums-other interests-members on those sites talked about playing home type organs.Thought-buy a Lowrey organ and learn to play!But a big problem New TOL Lowrey organs now cost $67,000!!!!No music instrument dealers in town where I live that carry organs or pianos-but a couple places that have small instruments such as guitars.Remember an era when home type organs and pianos were AFFORDABLE!!

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-08-2015, 08:03 AM:

As one who played the piano as a kid and who would like to get back to it at some point in the future, my thought would be that it might be worth taking a lesson or two before buying a piano (digital or real) to see if this is something that you would enjoy.

I agree that there is no real substitute for in-person lessons from a good teacher. This will prevent you from teaching yourself how to do something wrong and then having to un-learn it later. In addition to the actual performance aspect, you will also need to learn something about music theory, which is something that you can teach yourself.

I have no particular experience with digital pianos, except that people I know who play them say that they have gotten to the point where they are very good. If you do not have the space or cash for a real piano, I suspect that a modern digital variant would make a good substitute.

Posted by Robert Koch (Member # 3728) on 04-08-2015, 05:33 PM:

I am 93 yrs old and have played since grade school. I have a Yamaha 5ft 3" grand which I still play it most every day. My portfolio consists mostly of Gershwin Jerome Kern, Johny Green and others of that era. The worst part is to find someone still alive that knows what I`m playing.
I`ve known a couple of people of retirement age that have been serious enough to learn, to put in the time it takes to finally play well. They started with a good teacher which usually starts with a reference from a person knows a good teacher from a poor one. Always remember a marvelous player isnt always a good teacher
You can do it if you are willing to devote the effort

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-08-2015, 06:00 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
I have no particular experience with digital pianos, except that people I know who play them say that they have gotten to the point where they are very good.

My wife's church has a digital keyboard that can sound like an organ or a piano. The piano function sounds almost uncannily like a real piano, although it doesn't quite have the right sound if you hit the keys really hard (Elton John style). But for a cheaper alternative to the real thing, you'd be hard pressed to beat it. It's made by Kawai, I think.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-08-2015, 09:32 PM:

I've been playing the "Ivorys" since 1959 and still play on a continual basis.

I had my share of great teachers who did teach me something and had the 'mechanical' ones who just listen to you play without teaching you any fingering techniques or any form of skills.

I gave them all up and went on my own. It wasn't until the magic of the internet that tonnage of resources came into being to download all one can almost need to gain an knowledge of music and how to apply it to any instrument, including the keyboards.

Yet, one really needs the instructor - to 'baby step' one along with anything new in this field.

Presently, I'm a church organist and a member of our church's music committee.

I have to instruments at home - a Casio 76 note keyboard and a three manual Midi Organ that I constructed using a well-known virtual organ software that we organists are really getting attached to, and the name of the software is Hauptwerk.

Do a search on this software to find out the details and all of the magic that can be produced by using this software.

Course, the big push that is in my favor with music is that I studied Music in college to learn tons more what's inside the piece (the art of music) instead of just listening to it and playing it (the mechanics of music.)

In short, I love music and still learning.

-Monte

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 04-21-2015, 12:15 AM:

I've had one of these for about a week now:

Casio CDP-230R

I bought this one because it was cheap and seemed like a good beginner machine; my idea is that if I really get into this I can always purchase a better/more expensive one later.

Now I'm really amazed that they can sell that thing for under $400.

I'll admit that I don't have a lot to compare it to, not having had a lot of exposure to musical instruments before, but this thing is really something! It does 400 different instruments and while I haven't tried them all out, I'm impressed with the sounds of the ones that I have tried. The default Grand Piano is great, and it does a church organ that will send shivers down your spine. The first day I had it I just had to teach myself to play Amazing Grace just so I could hear that organ.

I've spent the week teaching myself some simple chord progressions and I'm really happy with what I have here. Perhaps as I get more advanced I'll discover this machine's limitations, but I haven't found anything to complain about so far.

My biggest challenge so far is getting my hand position right. It's a lot easier now than it was a few days ago, though.

I have a Sennheiser headphone that I use for this and that; I"ve plugged the piano into the headphone so neither my wife or my budgie bird will throw me out of the house when I'm fiddling around with this.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 04-21-2015, 01:50 PM:

Hello Frank
You might find this internet based class very useful.

The teacher has found some very simple and correct ways to learn to play music on keyboard instruments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqGKVjPnHlY&list=RDfqGKVjPnHlY#t=2

Any music with guitar chords listed above the notes can be used to play a very pleasing version of a song.

KEN

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-21-2015, 02:35 PM:

at the keyboards slightly bigger than a casio [Smile]

The 4-19 Wurlitzer at Casa Loma Toronto

Posted by Robert Koch (Member # 3728) on 04-22-2015, 07:37 PM:

Frank:
If you want "shivers" you havent ever listened to one of those 4 manual " Wurlitzers, Gordon has pictured, "opened up". A theatre organ. Nothing can compare; nothing has or ever will

Posted by Christos Mitsakis (Member # 143) on 04-24-2015, 01:04 PM:

Gordon, Master Organist, You look terrific!

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 04-24-2015, 01:49 PM:

Back a number of years ago I was allowed a few minutes on the stage left console of the Radio City Music Hall Wurlitzer. I won't say I actually "played" it, but what a thrill to pick out a few chords and stomp those bass notes. Thank goodness nobody was around! What a magnificent instrument.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-24-2015, 03:41 PM:

The first time i played one the regular organist at the organ grinder pizza said make sure you have the pedal on the right all the way down before you play your first cord
hmmm cresendo pedal at full almost knocked me off the bench

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 04-24-2015, 03:54 PM:

Yea, I opened up the shutters at the Music Hall, and even though nobody was around I had to back off--it was scary loud and I could feel the bass up through the bench.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-24-2015, 04:31 PM:

Yes, especially with the 16' Pedal Reeds.

If the setup has the 16' Ophicleide stop that operates, at least, with 50 inches of wind, that stop can do some serious screaming.

Wonder if Gord ever played a Wurlitzer and sitting on a Howard Seat as below:

-Monte

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-24-2015, 05:42 PM:

I always use the Howard Seat

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 04-27-2015, 09:45 PM:

And they refer to that seat as "the nut cracker". No wonder why!

Nice photo of the Redford Theatre Barton with the dragon decorations

Posted by Rex Oliver (Member # 7593) on 04-28-2015, 03:03 AM:

Ahh-those Wurilitzer and Barton organs!!Wish I had the space and cost to get one!!!Lowrey eat your heart out!!!I have many cinema organ recordings-CDs,LPs and such.Enjoy those instead!One of the "swap shop" thrift places out here had a whole lot of organ CDs-bought them all!!!Still listening to them.If I can't get an organ-guess this will have to be the next best thing.Those Howrad seats sort of make me think of some tractor seats!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-28-2015, 08:59 AM:

Unless you wear a kilt i doubt any nuts got cracked [Smile]

I find the howard set much more comfortable than a bench on the back especially if you have a long shift to play also it is easier on the thigh and hip when doing a lot of pedaling

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 04-29-2015, 03:31 PM:

After spending about an hour a day playing with my piano for the past couple of weeks, I can now play Bach's Minuet in G and have it sound like it's supposed to. That Casio digital piano does a dandy harpsichord!

I'm just now getting to a point where I can watch the sheet music rather than my hands, and things have suddenly become a whole lot easier.

This process reminds me of when I was first learning to type in school. Getting over that first hurdle is tough. After that it gets both easier and more interesting, since you can suddenly do stuff.

My hands don't wear out quite as quickly as they did a couple of weeks ago, as well.

Posted by Robert Koch (Member # 3728) on 04-29-2015, 05:20 PM:

Good for you, Frank

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 05-07-2015, 12:12 AM:

I'm really stumped here and hope one of you fine folks can tell me what this means:

It's a notation on the Star Trek theme music, which is in 4/4 time if that matters.

I can't find anything that tells me what that notation means, probably because I don't know the right terminology.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 05-07-2015, 04:27 AM:

Since I'm the only one awake [Smile]

. I think the term you need to look up is tuplet

Posted by Carl Hetherington (Member # 7107) on 05-07-2015, 05:24 AM:

It means the quavers (eighth notes) should be "swung", not played straight (so that the first note is a bit longer than the second note, as typically found in jazz).

This page talks about it

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 05-07-2015, 12:05 PM:

Ah, the light just came on. Thanks ever so much, guys!

Now getting back to exploring strange new worlds....

Posted by Doug Thompson (Member # 6546) on 05-15-2015, 08:52 PM:

Frank,

One word: Technique.

I started taking piano lessons in 1968 when I was in first grade. In eleventh grade, I was still taking lessons from the same little old lady when she died. She held back my progress because she didn't want me to pass my two older brothers, concerned that it would discourage them. And I sure I surpassed her teaching ability.

Somewhere around the tenth grade, I had one lesson from a student teacher at one of the local universities. In just one lesson, he fixed my technique. On the next lesson, my regular teacher commented that I must have been practicing a lot since the previous week. I never told her about the lesson from the student teacher.

I took more lessons from the student teacher, and still use what I learned from him, no matter what the style of music.

Because technique is so important, I suggest you take a few lessons from a university student who is studing piano pedagogy.

Doug

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 05-17-2015, 12:12 AM:

I just found my first "legitimate" use for my piano.

I had an announcement recording to make for the radio station that required a pow wow style intro and background. I used the percussion tone setting on my piano to create the drumming and the singing, and after an hour of experimentation I actually got an authentic sounding effect.

Cool!

I was working this out with my headphones on when my wife came by and asked me why I was hammering the hell out of my piano. [Smile]

That piano does really dandy pow wow. The syncopation was a bit of a challenge but I figured out a way to sort of bounce the keys to make it sound right and ended up being able to simultaneously synthesizize three pow wow drums and a singer. Not bad for just two hands.

That was certainly a change from trying to play Beethoven. [Big Grin]

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 06-01-2015, 12:26 AM:

Now THIS is cool.

Moving Picture Music

Sheet music collections for playing along with silent movies.

I love the descriptions that go with some of the titles:

Mysterioso - for depicting stealth, murder, gruesome scenes, etc.
Furioso - for depicting storm scenes, general confusion, tumult, etc.
Appassionato - for deep emotion, intense or tragic situations.

And so on.

Theatre Organist's Secrets

How to make an organ create sound effects: snore, moo, bark, police whistle, train, etc.