Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Star Wars Marathon

This is topic Star Wars Marathon - Which Versions? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=007339

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 10-19-2015, 10:50 PM:

I called Harkins Northfield to try to find out which versions of Star Wars they are showing for the December 17th Marathon.

He didn't really understand the question. ("They're they digitally remastered versions.") So I asked him the running times. The times he quoted me were those for the original theatrical cuts, not the special editions.

I assume his times were incorrect, and they are actually showing the SEs. Can anyone confirm that?

These are the times he gave me:
Star Wars (2h 1m)
Empire (2h 4m)
Jedi (2h 14m)

I also asked if the marathon was going to be on the big screen (Cine Capri). He said no, they're showing it in one of the small 3D equipped auditoriums so that they can show Ep 7 in 3D.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 10-19-2015, 11:39 PM:

I'm wondering the same thing, even though I have no intention of actually going to this show. Will ALL movies be converted into 3D, or will they at least be showing the existing conversion of Episode I (I heard II and III were done as well but hardly shown anywhere?) And will Empire and Jedi include the Fox intros or the new shorter "Lucasfilm" intro that is on the "digital" versions that came out a few months ago?

Too bad the ideal theaters to show this marathon at (the Century 21 or 22 in San Jose) are currently sitting empty! I WOULD go see them THERE!

quote: Geoff Jones
I also asked if the marathon was going to be on the big screen (Cine Capri). He said no, they're showing it in one of the small 3D equipped auditoriums so that they can show Ep 7 in 3D.

So the biggest screen at that theater ISN'T equipped for 3D? [Confused]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-20-2015, 09:14 AM:

The Cine Capri screens have single projector systems. They would need a dual projector system or maybe even a laser-based setup to throw on acceptably bright image onto those big screens.

I don't know if the projectors in the Cine Capri houses are 2K or 4K, but it probably doesn't matter since so many big movies have 3D versions, which stunts them down to 2K anyway.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-20-2015, 12:36 PM:

I asked our film booker about which versions they are, if he knows I'll post the information here.

EDIT: He has no idea.

If they were smart they'd use the original versions, and then put all of them on sale on Blu-Ray right after the new movie opens.

Posted by Mark Campbell (Member # 4411) on 10-20-2015, 12:43 PM:

The Cinerama here in Seattle lists them as:
2D “original” theatrical releases

Not sure why they put the word "original" in quotes.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-20-2015, 12:53 PM:

You would think if they WERE the real original versions, they'd trumpet that fact, knowing how much love there is out there for those versions.

Of course there is the fact that George Lucas famously said those versions no longer exist, so...

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 10-20-2015, 07:50 PM:

Thanks for asking Mike - I appreciate it!

I emailed the Cinerama and they wrote back to say:

quote:
Yes, original theatrical for all 6 films.

(The Cinerama has sold out, btw.)

I purchased tickets for the marathon at Harkins Northfield. They told me it would be okay to show up for just the last three, and they also told me I could return them and get my money back if I needed to... which I will do if this turns out to be a hoax. [Wink]

If anyone gets any more info about which version they are showing, please share. I'm having a hard time believing it. I never thought I'd see the original/theatrical Star Wars trilogy on the big screen again.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 10-21-2015, 12:33 AM:

Somehow I doubt they'll be the ORIGINAL versions, but someone can prove me wrong when they see them. I'm hoping for an eventual Blu-Ray release but even taking out the 20th Century Fox opening is a deal-breaker for me.

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 10-21-2015, 02:51 AM:

I'm wondering why the marathon is so limited too. Is it a case of Disney being restrictive or certain theaters just not wanting to book it.

I'm also wondering if they'll have rules on arrival: I can easily see people buying tickets and skipping the prequels. Not a big deal for reserved seating houses, but for general admission, that could be fun to police.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-21-2015, 10:34 AM:

I don't know about the marathon, but for the new movie there definitely are rules.

- 4 week minimum booking
- Has to play in the biggest house for the duration, and if you move it to a smaller house (and they find out), 6% film rent penalty
- Not allowed to sell advance tickets until after that commercial aired Monday night

I think there were a couple others I can't remember.

Posted by Jonathan Althaus (Member # 5042) on 10-21-2015, 02:53 PM:

Well tickets went on sale before the trailer aired during the game. And I'm assuming the "must play in the largest house" rule is going to hurt H8

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 10-21-2015, 03:02 PM:

quote:
if you move it to a smaller house (and they find out),

Wasn't one of the requirements of DCI the ability of the distributors to track what house/projector their movies are showing in/on? I know they are not tied in everywhere, but it seems like something they would mandate now.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-21-2015, 07:11 PM:

Easy way to mandate...only issue KDMs for the "large" theatre...if you don't have the KDMs to play it anywhere else, that pretty much keeps you honest unless you start moving your mediablock/IMBs around. Something an Independent might try to do but less likely for the big boys.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-21-2015, 08:21 PM:

Well whether you're hooked to the net or not, the studios have the right to examine your projector's logs so they could find out what played where if they wanted to.

I think Disney in this case is giving operators the option of moving to a smaller house, but paying the penalty. It's a little improvement on some older deals where they just mandated you HAD TO keep it in the big house for the duration (and there were probably a lot of unauthorized moves).

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 10-22-2015, 05:09 AM:

Is the 6% penalty just for the weeks that it is in the smaller house or is it retroactive for the entire run?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-22-2015, 06:47 AM:

Examine the logs? "Ooops...yeah...we had a problem and had to reinstall the software...sorry."

And seriously...if you are not on a VPF program, it would be quite time consuming/hard for a studio to try and examine local logs. Has it EVER happened yet?

Has anyone seen the "DCI POLICE" yet?

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 10-22-2015, 08:54 AM:

I'm surprised Disney/LucasFilms isn't giving this opportunity to showcase the 3D premiers of Episode II and III that was shown earlier in the year ... oh well.

curious what the audio is, I'm sure they are 5.1 - unlike the blurays which are 6.1

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-22-2015, 11:10 AM:

5.1 audio would've a GOOD thing, as that means there is a much better chance it isn't some remixed version, unlike a 6.1 mix.

I got confirmation through a booker who spoke with Disney...these will be the 1997 Special Editions.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-22-2015, 11:48 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
it would be quite time consuming/hard for a studio to try and examine local logs. Has it EVER happened yet?

I never said it has ever happened or would -- only that they have the right to crawl up your butt with a microscope if they so choose.

It's like the ticket stubs thing. We're all supposed to save years worth of them, but has any studio ever demanded to audit anybody's ticket stubs?

Posted by Mark Campbell (Member # 4411) on 10-22-2015, 11:48 AM:

If Disney is releasing episode VII, what studio is putting I-VI back in theaters for this event? Doesn't Fox still have distribution rights to those titles?

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 10-22-2015, 02:12 PM:

Harkins just responded to me on FB saying:

quote:
We are being told that it will be the same cut of the movie that is featured in The Complete Saga blu-rays. See you at the movies.

So:

Seattle Cinerama says it's the '77, '80, '83 versions.
Brad's contact says it's the 1997 versions.
Harkins Theatres says it's the 2011 versions.

I wonder who is right?

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 10-22-2015, 02:20 PM:

George should be consistent and mess with them yet again for this release. [Razz]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-22-2015, 02:39 PM:

Just to change it up, he should reword the opening crawls. Maybe just change one word in each and watch the internet blow up the next day.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 10-22-2015, 03:07 PM:

quote: Jesse Skeen
George should be consistent and mess with them yet again for this release.

I can picture Lucas sitting at home calling every phone number he knows at Disney and saying "Hey, I got some great ideas..." before being hung up on.

Posted by Matt Russell (Member # 8989) on 10-22-2015, 04:42 PM:

quote: Mark Campbell
If Disney is releasing episode VII, what studio is putting I-VI back in theaters for this event? Doesn't Fox still have distribution rights to those titles?

Disney has the rights to ALL of the films under the Lucasfilms logo, sort of like what Disney does with Marvel.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-22-2015, 06:29 PM:

I have a clarification update, it is the 2011 remastered editions, but that's still got the 1997 silliness in it.

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 10-22-2015, 06:46 PM:

Thanks Brad - I appreciate you following up. You saved me $140 (3 tix). [Smile]

I guess Cinerama is either misinformed or they have something unique.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-22-2015, 09:26 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
I have a clarification update, it is the 2011 remastered editions, but that's still got the 1997 silliness in it.

That "NOOOOOOO" thing they added to Darth Vader, before he threw the Emperor to his death in Return of the Jedi has to be the silliest thing in all the needless tweaks they've done to the original trilogy. It's just un-watchable. I've avoided buying any of the Star Wars movies on Blu-ray because of that.

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 10-22-2015, 09:46 PM:

quote: Geoff Jones
So:
Seattle Cinerama says it's the '77, '80, '83 versions.
Brad's contact says it's the 1997 versions.
Harkins Theatres says it's the 2011 versions.
I wonder who is right?

Were there ever DCPs made of the '77/'80//83 versions, or the 2011 Blu Ray remaster? It seems to me most likely that there would be DCPs of the 1997 theatrical re-release (even though those were of course 35mm), as those were the theatrical releases that in Lucas' mind comprised the official canon.

quote: Matt Russell
Disney has the rights to ALL of the films under the Lucasfilms logo, sort of like what Disney does with Marvel.

Not accurate. Fox still has the theatrical and home video distribution rights for Episodes I-III, V and VI until 2020 (at which point they revert to LucasFilm), and Fox holds the theatrical and home video distribution rights for Episode IV forever. Presumably they can be persuaded to participate in future releases for a tidy sum...

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 10-22-2015, 10:18 PM:

If it's the 2011 version, it's going to look like bantha poodoo: there are so many things wrong with the colors on that release in addition to all the noise reduction Lowry already has baked into the master. Blow that up to 30+ feet or more and you might as well stay home and watch the THX VHS, LaserDiscs, or the "GOUT" DVD releases.

And lest we forget George's revisionism too. Bah, I'll watch my CAV LaserDiscs instead.

AJG

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 10-22-2015, 11:02 PM:

If only someone would go to the trouble to restore these great films... to despecialize them...

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-22-2015, 11:19 PM:

Disney (and Fox) need to give Robert Harris a call.

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 10-22-2015, 11:26 PM:

Or Harmy.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 10-23-2015, 05:58 PM:

Someone I know quite well and who shall not be named has the Harmy-editions in DCP format and I've been told they look better on a large screen than any of those remastered stuff ever looked. [evil]

I still wonder what will happen if you book this marathon and... oops... end up playing the wrong but right versions...

Posted by Aron Toplitsky (Member # 6950) on 10-24-2015, 05:25 AM:

Oh my god! I was unaware of the added "nooooo" in Jedi so I had to see it for myself. Unreal! At this point I wonder if that's Lucas' "fuck you" to fans, knowing most people laughed at the ridiculousness of it in Revenge of the Sith? Or is he just that much out of touch with reality? For that alone I would not buy the blu rays. Thank god he is barely involved in the new trilogy!

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-27-2015, 07:16 PM:

The movies will not be the same without the Fox Fanfare in front of them. It's a highly unique situation with these films that the CinemaScope extended fanfare is practically culturally ingrained as part of the soundtrack. In fact I hope they seriously consider licensing the fanfare for Episode VII. Star Wars just won't quite be Star Wars with Tinkerbell flying around or something. Here's to hoping.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 10-27-2015, 07:39 PM:

I agree with you Mark about the FoX fanfare added to Episode VII but I do not think it will be possible because the original fanfare plays with the Fox logo and the CinemaScope extention plays with the Lucasfilm logo. It will be up to Disney to create a new opening for the STAR WARS films they produce with Episode VII and future installments.

-Claude

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-27-2015, 07:43 PM:

10-to-1 that the new movie will open simply with the Lucasfilm logo. No Disney logo. They'll use the same strategy they do with Marvel movies -- if you didn't see the "distributed by" notice at the end, you'd never know Disney had anything to do with them.

I agree the Fox logo is really cool and should always be part of the older movies. If they come out without it, I'd suggest any enterprising showman could easily use DCP-O-Matic to strip the logo off of the appropriate Blu-Ray and program it to play right before the movie, to preserve the original experience that much at least. (Just in case that logo is "no longer allowed," then a person could name the DCP "NO-SMOKING" or something like that.)

quote: Mark J. Marshall
In fact I hope they seriously consider licensing the fanfare for Episode VII.

They say the only sure things are death and taxes, but I think you can add "that not happening" to the list. I'd say the chances are less than slim to none. (It'd be really cool if I was wrong though!)

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 10-27-2015, 08:18 PM:

This is getting even more off-topic, but what about Indiana Jones? Did Disney get distribution rights to those three films also?

Without the Paramount logo at the beginning, the mountain opening transitions are lost.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-27-2015, 09:43 PM:

I wonder if they might do like other distributors do when acquiring films from different studios: Just append their own logo at the very beginning, and then follow with the original movie, logo and all.

Universal does this with their own videos. They open with the "current" Universal logo -- then you see whatever "classic" logo originally opened the movie. (Granted, it's different when it's the same studio.)

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 10-28-2015, 08:22 AM:

quote: Mark Campbell
The Cinerama here in Seattle lists them as:
2D “original” theatrical releases

Not sure why they put the word "original" in quotes.

The Cinerama website has changed the listing and now refers to them as "2D digitally remastered releases."

http://www.cinerama.com/Movie.aspx?fc=5106000324

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 10-28-2015, 08:39 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Disney (and Fox) need to give Robert Harris a call.

or Grover Crisp

Posted by Mark Campbell (Member # 4411) on 10-30-2015, 05:10 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I wonder if they might do like other distributors do when acquiring films from different studios: Just append their own logo at the very beginning, and then follow with the original movie, logo and all.

Universal does this with their own videos. They open with the "current" Universal logo -- then you see whatever "classic" logo originally opened the movie. (Granted, it's different when it's the same studio.)

For the old Warner Brothers titles under Turner, MGM Home Video used to show their logo, then Turners, then the old WB logo (or whatever studio) that originally preceded the film. I think this is how it should be if a studio has acquired a title from another studio. Keep the logo that was on the film theatrically, and if you want to tack yours on ahead of it then go ahead.

What I really don't like is when a studio replaces the older logo with a current one. MGM/UA did this with the first James Bond DVD releases. I would love to see the old Untited Artists logos in their various forms throughout the years.

Posted by Mike Schulz (Member # 4297) on 10-30-2015, 10:24 PM:

I might as well chime in on this, too. The cinema I was working at in 2010 had a special 30th anniversary screening of The Empire Strikes Back and the DCP we played was definitely the 1997 version of the film. Fox had also made a DCP for Episodes 4 and 6 as well.

I know this still doesn't help much as that was 5 years ago so who knows if they have made newer ones since then with the new 2011 updates. Lets hope not...

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 10-31-2015, 06:09 PM:

quote:
What I really don't like is when a studio replaces the older logo with a current one. MGM/UA did this with the first James Bond DVD releases. I would love to see the old United Artists logos in their various forms throughout the years.

United Artists has been doing that since the very beginning of home video- even 1970s Magnetic Video releases have the original UA openings removed. Yes, it bugs the hell out of me. (And just to keep this on topic, I've given up on ever seeing a perfect home edition of Star Wars.)

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 11-01-2015, 01:47 PM:

quote:
Someone I know quite well and who shall not be named has the Harmy-editions in DCP format and I've been told they look better on a large screen than any of those remastered stuff ever looked. [evil]

I still wonder what will happen if you book this marathon and... oops... end up playing the wrong but right versions...

The problem with this is that they need to get the message out. Otherwise, they'd be showing the original versions to a bunch of folks who don't care - who were happy to watch the Special Editions.

BTW, If anyone ever does this in Colorado, please send me a PM. [Big Grin]

quote: Jesse Skeen
(And just to keep this on topic, I've given up on ever seeing a perfect home edition of Star Wars.)

Jesse, have you checked out the Despecialized Editions? An amateur film preservationist in Europe has produced a high-definition digital restoration of the trilogy. Here's a short video about his efforts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHfLX_TMduY

From what I hear, they look pretty good. [Wink]

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 11-19-2015, 03:21 PM:

I can't post the pic, but apparently twitterer: TiffanyRaffaele tweeted: "My brother didn't want anyone in the theatre at the Star Wars premier so he spent $2180 to buy all the tickets" and posted a pic of the stash of tickets ... wow, for real? talk about selfish. Guess there's nothing stopping this type of sale, but with only one person in the theater, the lack of concession sales per patrons must be a serious kick in the nuts to said theater.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 11-19-2015, 03:49 PM:

Too much money, not enough brains.

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 11-19-2015, 04:33 PM:

it surprising that a theater would allow ONE person to buy all those tickets and not allow others to said screening - it's just baffling

Posted by Michael Putlack (Member # 6523) on 11-22-2015, 03:19 PM:

What's I find strange about one guy buying all of those tickets is he could have probably just rented the cinema for a private hire of the movie for less money. I hope they at least gave him a bulk discount on the tickets!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-22-2015, 09:18 PM:

For a private show, my deal is they have to buy 15 tickets, with each person attending needing a ticket for admittance. If all 15 aren't used, they can use the remaining tickets at any other show. So, he could have had a private show at our place for $116.25 and brought up to 14 of his friends along.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 11-22-2015, 09:25 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
For a private show, my deal is they have to buy 15 tickets

I assume that is for a screening outwith normal showtimes; you wouldn't cancel your main Friday evening show for a 15 person private hire.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-22-2015, 10:10 PM:

No that's for an "outside of normal hours" private matinee. I wouldn't even consider selling out the whole theatre to one person for a standard show, partly due to the lost concession sales but also due to the huge number of people it would make angry -- a lot of our customers drive from nearby towns.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 11-25-2015, 05:45 AM:

They did that in the movie "Annie"- Daddy Warbucks bought every seat at Radio City Music Hall so about 5 of them could have the theater to themselves.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 11-25-2015, 05:38 PM:

The image for posterity: