Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: MKV

This is topic MKV - Um, Why? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-16-2016, 07:50 PM:

As if we don't have enough audio-video encoding formats already, we have this "open source" format, MKV, also known as Matroska, coming in to further muddy up the waters.

It might be possible to tell I'm a little bit annoyed as I write this post, and this would be true. I have a couple of these "MKV" video files I'd like to re-wrap into .MP4 containers, keeping the MP4 video and Dolby 5.1 AC3 audio intact without transcoding (and DEGRADING) the content into other formats.

I'm at my wits end trying to use VLC Media Player to do this conversion job. If I didn't give two farts about the 5.1 audio I'd let it vomit out a horrible, low grade MP3 audio track for this. But I'm not going to do that. I'll delete the damned files before I let that happen. I'm kind of stubborn that way.

VLC Media Player has a save/convert option and little check boxes for maintaining the original video and audio bit streams in the file. But every time I try using that tool it converts the video only and leaves out the freaking audio track. Dead, useless silence is all we get in the resulting .MP4 file.

I am not interested in the slightest about re-encoding this in another multi-channel audio file format, such as AAC. VLC offers this as an option, presumably so people can play this stuff on their little Apple TV boxes. I want the original Dolby Digital track unmolested.

So, are there any MKV to MP4 tools available that can do this kind of conversion job reliably and correctly? I've gone searching around online for various conversion tools but the web sites for just about all seem too sketchy to even visit.

Why did MKV become such a big format in the online video sharing community? MKV is not compatible with very many devices. I have to use VLC Media Player to play such files on my computer. My Saumsung TV will play MKV files but my Playstation 3 will not. I would have figured the .MP4 format would be more universally accepted.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 02-16-2016, 08:11 PM:

Have you tried avconv?

You may find this interesting.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-16-2016, 08:34 PM:

Pardon me if I'm misunderstanding what that discussion thread is suggesting, but I definitely do not want to convert the audio in the MKV files to AAC or MP3. I only want to maintain the original AC3 audio in the file. I have no interest in converting the audio to different audio formats that might be more web browser friendly.

VLC Media Player can already convert MKV videos to MP4 with TV quality MP3 or AAC audio for itty bitty Apple TV boxes. If avconv has some way to convert a MKV file containing .MP4 video and Dolby Digital 5.1 audio over to an .MP4 container with the very same thing I would be interested in using that. But I have zero interest in something that forces the audio only into MP3 and AAC stereo options.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-16-2016, 08:57 PM:

Have you tried MPEG Streamclip? http://www.squared5.com

I like it better for converting videos to other formats.

FYI: VLC now has a player app for the new Fourth Gen Apple TV.
It will play anything that it's big brother can play. You can play streams or local content, just like the original.

If you have a NAS hard drive on your network, you can simply drop video and audio clips into it and VLC will play them, directly, without the need to hassle with iTunes.

I have a NAS plugged into my Wi-Fi and, using VLC on my 4th Gen Apple TV, playing videos is literally a drag-and-drop affair. [Smile]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-16-2016, 09:37 PM:

I haven't tried Streamclip yet. I couldn't get avconv to install successfully. Handbrake could convert the MKV file to MP4 and pass-through the AC3 track successfully, but not without taking a giant crap on the video quality (it re-encoded the video rather than leaving it untouched). I'll have to look a little more in case I missed a step.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-16-2016, 11:06 PM:

Streamclip should be able to extract an audio track from the movie package file. Can you extract the audio and recombine it with a satisfactory video track?

QuickTime player 7 should be able to do his,as well.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 02-16-2016, 11:23 PM:

According to this page, use ffmpeg to change the wrapper:

ffmpeg -i input.mkv -c:v copy -c:a copy output.mp4

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 02-17-2016, 02:03 AM:

Why are you in need of .MP4? You can also easily convert an MKV to an M2TS file, so long as the original video and audio are compatible with the Blu-ray spec. The app you want to do that is tsMuxer.

I find converting MKV to M2TS improves compatibility with my Oppo player whilst losing no quality at all.

AJG

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-17-2016, 11:17 AM:

tsMuxer converted the MKV file to M2TS without re-encoding any of the audio or video. As long as it will play on a Playstation 3 that should be good enough.

For people who make rips of Blu-ray discs using Make MKV this little exercise with tsMuxer would seem to be an extra, necessary step. M2TS appears to have more compatibility support than MKV.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-17-2016, 10:33 PM:

Why do you need to do this? Just convert to ProRes and Linear PCM. DONE.

You can use ClipWrap to rewrap the M2TS file to something of your choice, but you have to bend down and let Steve Jobs stick his dick in your ass because it's only available for Mac. You're missing out, dude. Steve's here when you need him.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-18-2016, 11:10 PM:

I need to re-wrap video files in MKV containers in something else because MKV doesn't play on many devices or in many software media players either.

Converting MKV to M2TS using tsMuxer is a work-able solution for me.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-19-2016, 12:16 AM:

quote: Adam Martin
ffmpeg -i input.mkv -c:v copy -c:a copy output.mp4

Have you tried it? Like Martin already put it, it copies the audio and video streams into an MP4 container. So, it just demuxes and muxes your content and doesn't do any transcoding.

Furthermore, I do like MKV. It hasn't been broadly adapted by commercial playback and editing solutions yet, but that's not the fault of the format. The format itself makes a whole lot more sense than stuff like "MP4" or "AVI".

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-19-2016, 09:34 AM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Have you tried it? Like Martin already put it, it copies the audio and video streams into an MP4 container. So, it just demuxes and muxes your content and doesn't do any transcoding.

No, not yet. I already had a copy of tsMuxer. It's easy to use, so I went with creating the M2TS file instead. I might look at ffmpeg (and save Adam's command line code) for use later.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Furthermore, I do like MKV. It hasn't been broadly adapted by commercial playback and editing solutions yet, but that's not the fault of the format. The format itself makes a whole lot more sense than stuff like "MP4" or "AVI".

MKV may be a patents free audio-video container, but the fact remains not very many things play it. If I use something like Make MKV to rip one of my Blu-ray discs, I'm not going to leave the resulting file in a MKV wrapper. I'm going convert it into a format that can be read by more devices and applications.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-20-2016, 12:35 PM:

It's easier to just record the HDMI stream from a Blu-ray disc.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-21-2016, 01:33 PM:

Not really. If I managed to just copy what came from the HDMI output I would end up with a file no better in quality than what was on the Blu-ray disc, but it would consume a shit-ton more of hard disc space.

I'd prefer to use the already compressed/encoded audio and video tracks, leaving them as is, but just changing how the audio and video tracks are wrapped.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-23-2016, 02:36 PM:

Wanna know an even faster method? Leave the data on the Blu-ray disc and just play THAT back when you watch it.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-23-2016, 02:44 PM:

I always thought it was kind of a dumb idea to have the Blu-Ray player over by the TV set. Somebody should come out with a line of end-tables or recliners with BR players built in. Then the whole "getting up to change disks" thing wouldn't matter.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-23-2016, 10:12 PM:

It would be cool to have BD players incorporated into coffee tables or end tables close to where the viewer is sitting. But I can imagine a couple possible complications with that: cables for power and audio/video connection. There's going to be a trip hazard between the table and TV unless the cables are routed under the floor somehow. Wireless HDMI could eliminate one cable, but a power outlet in the floor would still be required.

quote: Joe Redifer
Wanna know an even faster method? Leave the data on the Blu-ray disc and just play THAT back when you watch it.

Well, yeah, obviously that's normally what anyone would do. I'm kind of getting at more unconventional use.

Say for instance a disc is starting to exhibit signs of laser rot, it would be desirable to attempting salvaging the disc by ripping its contents to a hard disc. I have some old DVDs that have rot. Make MKV can rip them pretty easily, but into that strange format.

If I want to have some fun making my own "honest trailer" of a movie I can't place MKV-wrapped content into Premiere Pro. I have to change it to something else PPro can use.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-24-2016, 03:11 AM:

Well if you wanna go into Premiere Pro (hopefully one of the many bugs won't hinder you) then it'd be easiest to just record from the HDMI connector. Just record the scenes you like, edit your program, export, upload to Youtube, get a strike on your channel, repeat two times, have your channel deleted. That really is the easiest way I can think of rather than having to rewrap the entire movie. Premiere or any editing app edits like shit with those kinds of interframe codecs anyway.

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 02-24-2016, 10:49 AM:

Try these.
MKVextract
Gui
/M.E.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-24-2016, 03:14 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
It would be cool to have BD players incorporated into coffee tables or end tables close to where the viewer is sitting. But I can imagine a couple possible complications with that: cables for power and audio/video connection. There's going to be a trip hazard between the table and TV unless the cables are routed under the floor somehow. Wireless HDMI could eliminate one cable, but a power outlet in the floor would still be required.

I guess the general consensus in the industry is that physical media will eventually go away and will be replaced by Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc. At least they have you on the hook for a monthly subscription then.

I'm no fan of wireless HDMI, it's either uses some cheap form of compression or if you want it uncompressed, way to expensive for home use. Also, it's a perfect waste of free-for-all frequency spectrum.

That being said, an easy, widely accepted wireless screen sharing method, even if it is compressed over wifi, is definitely lacking. Ever tried to share a few pictures or recordings on your phone, notebook or tablet on someone else's smart TV? Just plugging in a HDMI cable, where possible, is still the easiest way...