Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Ang Lee Shooting 120fps

This is topic Ang Lee Shooting 120fps in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=007385

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-07-2016, 02:08 PM:

quote:
In an effort to make his Iraq War satire look more like GoPro footage of your nephew’s backyard birthday party, Ang Lee has shot his new film Billy Lynn’s Halftime Walk at a whopping 120 frames per second. According to The Hollywood Reporter, Lee will preview footage from the movie for the first time in its intended 4K, 3D, 120-fps format during his April 16 keynote speech at the NAB Show’s Future of Cinema Conference in Las Vegas.

The film, based on the 2012 book of same name, recounts the true story of Billy Lynn and the rest of his company as they survive a heated firefight in Iraq. A video of them goes viral, and they become so famous that the Bush administration brings them home for a two-week goodwill tour. Ultimately, the soldiers end up participating in a Thanksgiving halftime performance by Destiny’s Child at a Cowboys-Bears game.

Although the majority of films are shot at 24 fps, Peter Jackson shot The Hobbit in 48 fps, which a lot of people found jarring and akin to a cheesy, staged performance during non-spectacle scenes. It’s likely that 120 fps could compound that problem, but with set pieces that take place in the middle of a firefight and an NFL game, it’s sort of understandable why Lee would choose this film to experiment with the format. The cast includes Vin Diesel, Chris Tucker, Kristen Stewart, Garrett Hedlund, and Steve Martin. Sony plans to release the movie in November, which gives everyone enough time to either study up on how frame rate affects the viewing experience or relearn all the lyrics to “Bug A Boo.”

AV Club

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 03-07-2016, 02:27 PM:

...and I hope they release it in 70mm at that frame rate.

That would be fun! [Eek!]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-07-2016, 03:09 PM:

That would mean a changeover about every three minutes.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 03-09-2016, 07:05 AM:

What projectors can even do 4k 3D 120fps?

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 03-09-2016, 08:01 AM:

Good question Buck.
But I think the 'bottleneck' would more be on the server
and the data transport link(s) between it and the projector.
Seems to me 4k/3D/120 would take a helluvalotta bandwidth.
I'm sure someone here on FT can quote the actual numbers.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-09-2016, 08:12 AM:

quote:
Vin Diesel, Chris Tucker, Kristen Stewart, Garrett Hedlund, and Steve Martin

Great cast!

We discussed the 4k/120Hz issues here:

http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001947#000000

and here:

http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001540#000000

Currently there is no DCI system available than can actually play 4k/120Hz, however, Christies Mirage (which shares a lot with the Christie 4k DCI DLPs) can do it. You still need a special (again non-DCI) server for playout.

This feature certainly is not intended to be played back at the capture rate at cinemas. It will probably come down to 2k/60Hz 3D releases.

IMAX Laser could play 4k/60fps 3D, though I am not sure wether their current gear is already capable of really doing it software wise.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-10-2016, 06:18 AM:

I believe Barco's ICMP can handle 4K/3D/60fps. And that is the current best (in terms of format capability) the industry has.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-10-2016, 07:49 AM:

The Barco Alchemy ICMP can do 4K/3D/60fps and 2K/3D/120fps. Officially, 4K/2D/120fps is not supported, but maybe it can be achieved using a software update. If so, you could probably also do 4K/3D/120fps using a dual-projector setup.

Not sure what the Christie based Dolby Cinema setup could do.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-10-2016, 10:06 AM:

Instead of upping the frame rate to levels no d-cinema system or consumer playback platform can support why not use all that extra bandwidth in shooting to up the color bit depth instead?

If a video camera's 4K footage had something like 20, 24 or even 32 bits per RGB color channel it would provide a huge amount of latitude for things like high dynamic range imagery or highly stylized color grading schemes all while doing more to eliminate the videotape look from the imagery. All of that is something that would be more visible in the end product across all platforms.

120fps content would only be able to work theoretically in just a few theaters. I'm not sure what the appeal would be in this. Are they wanting the look of the movie to be like the viewers think they're playing Call of Duty on a Playstation 4?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-10-2016, 02:23 PM:

120fps for feature length...interesting.

Lots of HD space going to be needed for both LMS and server, and major ingest time.

Ang Lee must have Petabyte storage drives.

-Monte

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-12-2016, 12:56 PM:

Yawn.... Things looked like shit at 60 fps the last time this was done. When will people learn....?

Mark

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 03-12-2016, 01:14 PM:

Is motion blur what makes something look "cinematic?" I've heard that high frame rate is either "like looking out a window" or "like watching television."

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-12-2016, 03:26 PM:

The film-look is not rooted in blur or the lack thereof. It's not all about shooting at 24 frames per second either. I've seen plenty of video camera sourced movies shot at 24fps where the look of soap operas and the six o'clock news still managed to bake itself into the imagery. 24fps judder alone does not equal cinema.

I think the cinematic look is all about the kinds of color and contrast present in the film stocks. High frame rate film, such as Showscan, can be confused for having a sort of video look. But I think the real issue is high frame rate formats like Showscan can deliver imagery that looks too much like we see things through our own eyes in real life.

Video cameras and color grading software have both made improvements over the past decade. However, I think we're still in a pretty crude place in terms of the technology. If the video cameras can record raw footage with about double the bit depth and the image sensors can get a good bit faster and more intelligent about handling low light then mimicking the film look convincingly and even maintaining the look at higher frame rates won't be quite so difficult. And maybe the technology will get good enough to where the cameras do more to imitate the look of human eyesight rather than pretentiously imitating film.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-01-2016, 10:32 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
If a video camera's 4K footage had something like 20, 24 or even 32 bits per RGB color channel it would provide a huge amount of latitude for things like high dynamic range imagery or highly stylized color grading schemes all while doing more to eliminate the videotape look from the imagery. All of that is something that would be more visible in the end product across all platforms.

Would the digital projectors be able to reproduce that expanded color space?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-01-2016, 04:15 PM:

..prob, more like data speed to the projector..

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 04-01-2016, 11:47 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
The film-look is not rooted in blur or the lack thereof. It's not all about shooting at 24 frames per second either. I've seen plenty of video camera sourced movies shot at 24fps where the look of soap operas and the six o'clock news still managed to bake itself into the imagery. 24fps judder alone does not equal cinema.

I think the cinematic look is all about the kinds of color and contrast present in the film stocks.

I truly think it's a combination of all factors: lighting, film stock, color grading and frame rate. The reason why the video at 24fps still looked like a soap opera is most likely because there was no blur because the exposure per frame was probably at least 1/250th of a second. Lighting and film stocks certainly play a part as well, but I think it's primarily the lack of blur within frames. Somehow we've gotten very used to that and it sends a signal that it's film to our brains.

Some years ago Douglas Trumbull did a high frame rate demo at a SMPTE meeting and as the frame rate increased, it looked less and less like film in spite of the fact that all other conditions were the same. We've also seen how film "turns into video" when motion controls are turned on on a TV in spite of the fact that the source material is still color graded for a movie. It's uncanny and intellectually, it's hard (for me) to grasp, but it happens.

You see this all time in "making of" documentaries. You see action shot at video frame rates and it's simply not believable. You watch the same scene in the finished movie and there is a definite suspension of disbelief.

I hated the look of the Hobbit movies that were presented at high frame rates. It looked like a video of a stage play to me.

Even my technically unsophisticated ex-wife noticed this when she visited an ill friend whose TV must have had the motion controls turned on. She came back and said, "remember how we used to be able to tell whether a TV show was shot on film or video? We were watching movies on Isabel's TV, but it all looked like video." I was shocked that she perceived the difference.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-02-2016, 07:20 AM:

+1

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 08-22-2016, 11:51 AM:

We'll find out how it worked soon:

Variety

quote:
Ang Lee’s ‘Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk’ Premiering at New York Film Festival
Brent Lang
Senior Film and Media Reporter
@BrentALang
AUGUST 22, 2016 | 09:38AM PT
Ang Lee’s “Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk” will debut at this year’s New York Film Festival.

The film is expected to be a major Oscar contender given that Lee has scored two previous Academy Awards for “Brokeback Mountain” and “Life of Pi.” But it’s also drawing attention because of its various technological innovations. “Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk” is the first full-length narrative film shot in 4K and native 3D at an accelerated rate of 120 frames-per-second. The idea is that the image will be crisper and more life-like.

TriStar Pictures and Studio 8 backed the film in association with LStar Capital, Film4, Bona Film Group, and Fosun Media. The film is adapted by Ben Fountain’s novel of the same name. It follows an Iraq war hero (newcomer Joe Alwyn) who embarks on a victory tour that includes a halftime show at a Thanksgiving Day football game. The cast includes Kristen Stewart, Chris Tucker, Garrett Hedlund, Vin Diesel, and Steve Martin.

Lee has been a staple of the festival, showing the likes of “Life of Pi,” “The Ice Storm,” and “Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon” at previous gatherings. Other films that will screen this year include Mike Mills’s “20th Century Women” and James Gray’s “The Lost City of Z.”