Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Are you gonna get the iPhone "X"?

This is topic Are you gonna get the iPhone "X"? in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-13-2017, 08:27 PM:

I have a 6s, and while the X's new camera features and the face-recognition technology are pretty intriguing, I think I'll wait till the "XI" comes out and hope to get an X for a hundred bucks on clearance.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-13-2017, 09:01 PM:

I'm holding out until they install the microchip in my shoulder. [Wink]

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-13-2017, 09:30 PM:

I'm very interested in it. But I'm holding off until actual users review it.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-13-2017, 10:07 PM:

I wouldn't get an Apple phone because I can't program it without also purchasing a Mac and paying Apple $99 per year for the privilege of writing software for their system.

I'm not a giant fan of Android either, mostly due to the lack of control that a user is allowed, but at least I can write a program for it and the user control issue is slightly lesser than the iron grip that Apple maintains.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 09-13-2017, 10:30 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
I wouldn't get an Apple phone because I can't program it without also purchasing a Mac and paying Apple $99 per year for the privilege of writing software for their system.

As a part time software developer, this is why I don't do anything Apple related.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 09-13-2017, 11:57 PM:

I'm still on a iPhone 5, so no, lolol. I may upgrade to an SE soon though. Price is sure to drop with the X coming out.

Posted by Terry Monohan (Member # 8285) on 09-14-2017, 09:27 AM:

I like a headphone jack. Just will stick with my old Samsung smart phone. We held out till 2 years ago to even buy a cell phone. Now I like It with all the things a person can look at on It.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-14-2017, 09:51 AM:

Some of my friends are eagerly waiting the Apple iPhone Malcolm X. My girlfriend's youngest sister is going to order one. With all the press hype (and countless millions of dollars worth of free advertising to Apple) this new X phone will surely be a target for thieves and muggers. I can imagine someone who just bought a brand new Essential Phone with its bezel free, edge to edge screen getting mugged and then pistol whipped by the robber, angry that he thought he was getting a free iPhone X when it turned out to be an Android device.

Regarding smart phones I'm still very much an Android guy. Yesterday I hit the 2 year anniversary for when I bought my Samsung Galaxy Note 5. The phone still works great and even the battery is still holding its charge very well. If anything, I'm more tempted to shop around for a less costly phone plan rather than upgrade into a newer handset.

Samsung's new Note 8 is a great phone. It has more of a CinemaScope™ aspect ratio and fits in the hand better. Unfortunely I find the curved/tapered screen edges to be a big turn-off. How is a protective case and tempered glass screen protector supposed to fit on that thin, glassy, slippery, easy to drop slab? A staffer at Costco told me there was a new spray-on screen protector. If I remember right it costs a lot to apply. What if that spray-on surface gets scratched or blemished? How do you remove it, if the spray-on coating can be removed at all? Word has it Samsung is working on some kind of folding screen concept for Galaxy phones next year. I'll take a regular "boring" flat screen. At least Samsung brought back the MicroSD card slots.

quote: Mike Blakesley
I have a 6s, and while the X's new camera features and the face-recognition technology are pretty intriguing, I think I'll wait till the "XI" comes out and hope to get an X for a hundred bucks on clearance.

I'm a little worried about how face recognition technology could get hacked, like someone holding a picture of your face in front of the phone to gain access. It's just like muggers knocking out a victim and then using the victim's thumb to get into a phone to disable security measures.

Apple is changing iOS so when a user crosses an international border it will take more than just a thumb print to gain access to the phone. The 6 digit pass code will be required. Border agents have been using a loop hole to do warrant-less searches of phones and other digital devices of people entering the country, even American citizens returning home. Apparently it's easier for them to "legally" gain access if all it takes is the person's thumbprint. It's tougher to force them to give up a passcode (but they're doing this anyway). Apple is also making changes to iOS 11 to make it far more difficult for people to break into a phone without the passcode.

***

For me, the biggest deal coming from WWDC 2017 is the changes in iOS 11 over iOS 10. Better multi-tasking, an enhanced dock and an actual file manager that looks similar to Finder in MacOS.

I recently bought a large 12.9" iPad Pro (512GB, Wi-Fi only) with Apple Pencil to augment my design work. After looking at other products that offered on-screen drawing the iPad Pro with Apple Pencil seemed like the best deal. The Apple Pencil has no lag at all. The Wacom Cintiq product line works well, but the screens and tablet PCs cost a fortune. Microsoft's Surface Studio PC looks awesome and has a wonderful 4500 X 3000 resolution monitor that adjusts like an easel. But the damned stylus is just too laggy. And, again, you're paying a fortune for what seems like under-powered hardware.

The iPad Pro is certainly not a PC/Mac replacement. But I'll be able to do a lot of hand-drawing and hand-lettering tasks with it fairly quick and then bring that artwork into my other graphics programs on my work desktop or notebook for further refinement. Adobe's mobile design applications work best on the iPad Pro. I was really surprised at the dirt-cheap price of many design applications for the iPad Pro. Procreate is the most popular painting app for the iPad. It costs only $6! I think I paid $8 for Autodesk Graphic (a vector drawing program).

My only complaint with the Apple Pencil: there's a tiny female to female lightning connector you need to use hook it up to a charge cable. That little doohickey can be very easy to lose.

BTW, the iPad Pro has a traditional headphone jack on the top. There is only one Lightning port on the bottom. Some of the connectors for it (like the HDMI out) are pricey.

quote: Frank Cox
I'm not a giant fan of Android either, mostly due to the lack of control that a user is allowed, but at least I can write a program for it and the user control issue is slightly lesser than the iron grip that Apple maintains.

As an "end user" I am struggling to maintain any sympathy for developers. The recent Equifax hack, combined with numerous other security breaches, has me pretty pissed at certain software developers and even more pissed at Microsoft. It seems pretty safe to assume the "hole" used in the Equifax breach involved a Windows PC at some level.

Here in Lawton our city government is reeling from a malware attack that infiltrated their entire network. They won't say what kind of attack occurred, but if I had to guess I would say it's probably a ransom-ware infection, likely launched by a novice user not street smart when it comes to email attachments and strange web links. A lot of people haven't received water bills. I had to pay mine without a statement yesterday. The way they work I know I would get hit with a late fee if I waited for them to mail me a statement.

Apple is known for maintaining an iron-grip on control of its OS and how software is developed for it. It seems pretty clear to me that Microsoft is very long overdue for taking the same approach.

Posted by Richard P. May (Member # 3598) on 09-14-2017, 09:51 AM:

I bought a Google Pixel phone about six months ago, and am perfectly happy with it.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-14-2017, 12:02 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
I wouldn't get an Apple phone because I can't program it without also purchasing a Mac and paying Apple $99 per year for the privilege of writing software for their system.

You don't necessarily need to pay to write apps for iOS.

You can download Xcode for free and use it without paying. You can write apps for YOUR OWN iPhone/iPad if you register but you don't have to pay.

You only need to pay if you want to upload apps to the App Store for other people to use. However, when you register and pay the fee, you get 70% of the money that Apple collects and, if your app has ads, you get a cut of the ad revenue.

Thus, if you write apps well enough, it is possible for your Apple Developer membership to pay for itself.

You don't necessarily need to use a Mac to develop iApps, either.

I don't know all the details but there are development applications that work on Windows which can compile apps for multiple platforms.

Even if you don't want to do that, it is possible to use a cheap, older, used Mac or a MacMini for developing iApps.

The ostensible reason for needing to jump through all these proverbial hoops to develop iApps is because all apps need to be digitally signed in order to run on iOS.

While I understand that reasoning and agree with it, in principle, I'm not a fan or ceding control to a third party just to own, use and develop apps for a device that I paid money to have in the first place. That's not simply a criticism against Apple. It is a criticism against the idea of being compelled to give control to ANYBODY.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 09-14-2017, 03:31 PM:

iPhone X facial recognition issue reported in the news today. It seem that anytime someone picks the phone up when it is locked, it goes through the facial recognition algorithm, and if too many failures, the phone locks up. Not a problem if nobody but you ever touches your phone, but for many families, this may be a problem.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-14-2017, 05:22 PM:

I'm going to buy one once heck freezes over. [Wink]

For my day to day business, I'm still using a Blackberry from 2013. The thing runs their "10" OS, which is essentially QNX with another user interface. It actually runs many Android applications and still offers practically everything I need. I've got all my e-mail accounts in there, it has GPS with Tom Tom based navigation (which often beats Google Maps), I can still open pretty much every site on it without much trouble and it supports all relevant GSM/3G/4G communication standards and as such, neatly roams across the world.

I've got an iPhone 5s, which I only use for testing purposes. It's interesting to see, how this thing has become increasingly sluggish, update after update after update...

I've also got a Samsung Galaxy S8, which was my attempt at switching to a new phone for my day to day business. But to be honest, every time I'm using that thing, I miss the physical keyboard. I also miss the snappiness of a real-time OS, like QNX. So, the thing now serves as my backup phone or as a mobile "alternative" for a rather bulky Canon EOS 6D or Sony Camcorder.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-14-2017, 05:34 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
As an "end user" I am struggling to maintain any sympathy for developers. The recent Equifax hack, combined with numerous other security breaches, has me pretty pissed at certain software developers and even more pissed at Microsoft. It seems pretty safe to assume the "hole" used in the Equifax breach involved a Windows PC at some level.

Microsoft isn't a technology company -- it's a marketing company that happens to sell software of mediocre quality. (They also sell truly excellent keyboards and mice.)

Unfortunately, their software is just as much of a black box as Apple's, if not more so, and user control of what their stuff is doing is very close to zero as well.

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 09-14-2017, 05:59 PM:

are you kidding - up to a thousand dollars - yeah, no thanks.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-14-2017, 06:06 PM:

I got an iPnone7 a few months ago and I am extremely happy with it and will hang on to it for a few more years.

-Claude

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 09-14-2017, 07:10 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
I'm a little worried about how face recognition technology could get hacked, like someone holding a picture of your face in front of the phone to gain access. It's just like muggers knocking out a victim and then using the victim's thumb to get into a phone to disable security measures.

I don't know how well Apple's face recognition will work, but I don't expect that using a picture would work. I just started using the facial recognition on my Samsung S8 about a week ago and the results are very mixed. In perfect lighting it works so fast I almost don't know the phone was locked to begin with. However, is the lighting or angle are off by too much then it won't work at all. With the Android phones you have to use a PIN to disable the biometrics, so a thief would almost have to cut off your finger or they wouldn't be able to keep the phone unlocked.

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 09-14-2017, 08:09 PM:

I'm due for a new phone, so I will be picking up the 8. The X is interesting up to a point, and that point for me is the whole "turn your face into an emoji" thing, which caused me to slam down the lid on my laptop when I saw it demonstrated in the keynote.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-14-2017, 10:52 PM:

I had an Android phone until last December, when I was forced to replace it because the processor in it simply wasn't powerful enough to run a GPS navigation app without constant freezing and crashing. At that point I got an iPhone 6, largely at my wife's insistence (the selling point for her being that Facetime is so much better than Skype, and would enable video conversations with my son when I was away for 12-15 hours at a time).

I don't like the Crapple control freakery, the fact that you can't replace the battery without performing major surgery, and the clunky, unintuitive email app compared to the Android one; but I'm forced to admit that Facetime is definitely a killer app, and it runs Waze without any problems, or even getting warm. As those are about the only two things I use it for, no complaints.

When I started a new job in June, I was issued with an iPhone 7 by my employer. Impressions are similar, but the camera on the 7 is a big improvement. I can take a picture of 72 multi-pin connectors on a board in an NEC before swapping it out, and zoom it in enough to use it as a guide to refit them all after installing the replacement board. The resolution on the 6's camera isn't quite good enough to use it for that. It can pick up an astonishing amount of detail even in almost zero ambient light, too.

However, would I be willing to part with a grand of my own cash (or sign a 10-year lockin contract at $80 a month, or something extortionate like that) for another slight evolutionary improvement on this machine? That's about as likely to happen as Fatboy Kim is to join the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-15-2017, 01:50 AM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
I don't know how well Apple's face recognition will work, but I don't expect that using a picture would work. I just started using the facial recognition on my Samsung S8 about a week ago and the results are very mixed. In perfect lighting it works so fast I almost don't know the phone was locked to begin with. However, is the lighting or angle are off by too much then it won't work at all. With the Android phones you have to use a PIN to disable the biometrics, so a thief would almost have to cut off your finger or they wouldn't be able to keep the phone unlocked.

It uses a so called dot-projector, much like the Microsoft Kinect does. It projects a specific infrared dot pattern on your face and by the deformation of this pattern it can get a depth pattern of your face. It would not actually need to extract the depth pattern as such, it could also simply compare the dot-pattern of your original face scan with the current one.

So, holding a picture of someone else in front of it won't work. I guess to trick it, you would need a facial mask that closely matches the contours of your subject.

quote: Leo Enticknap
I don't like the Crapple control freakery, the fact that you can't replace the battery without performing major surgery

Unfortunately, this isn't an Apple-only problem, Samsung for example, did their best to copy Apple on this one years ago. It's funny how most of the top-end smart-phones all don't allow you to replace the battery.

Those non-user serviceable batteries probably infringe on European consumer laws, which clearly state that all so called "consumables" are required to be easily replaceable. Since they aren't, I guess they are now part of the device and no consumables anymore, so they should be covered by the same mandatory 2 year manufacturer warranty as the device itself.

It's interesting to see that most people with some technical affinity usually prefer Android above iPhone. I guess it's because they are more aware of the constrains and possible risks of an Apple Walled Garden.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-15-2017, 03:44 AM:

Here is a very good edit breaking down the features of the X. [Wink]

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-15-2017, 12:54 PM:

"The recent Equifax hack, combined with numerous other security breaches, has me pretty pissed at certain software developers and even more pissed at Microsoft. It seems pretty safe to assume the "hole" used in the Equifax breach involved a Windows PC at some level."

The Equifax hack was an unpatched vulnerability in open-source Apache Struts software. Patch was available but Equifax failed to install it.

https://www.enterprisetech.com/2017/09/15/equifax-ignored-apache-struts-patch-months/

In the aftermath of the second massive security breach at Equifax Inc. in four years, the Apache Foundation confirmed this week the data breach stemmed from the consumer credit reporting agency's failure to install patches to Apache Struts, an open source framework used to build Java web applications.

In a statement released Thursday (Sept. 14), the foundation said a vulnerability in Apache Struts, an open source framework for creating "enterprise-grade" Java web applications, was announced and patched on March 7, 2017. Six months later, Atlanta-based Equifax announced a data breach affecting an estimated 143 million consumers.

"The Equifax data compromise was due to their failure to install the security updates provided in a timely manner," the Apache Foundation statement concluded.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-15-2017, 03:27 PM:

To even think that Equifax is using Windoez is laughable in itself. No big company like that is storing data like that in Windiez format where it is easily hacked into. Big Corporations like Boeing, Honeywell, and many many others actually have their own proprietary business OS's running.

Mark

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-15-2017, 03:34 PM:

In many cases it's not what the actual database runs on (lots of that stuff runs on Oracle, for example), but rather what the client machines are running.

And for better or (more likely) worse, client machines at most large businesses run Microsoft Windows.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-15-2017, 06:09 PM:

What does the client OS of the hacker have to do with this? An Apache server vulnerability exploitable by a Windows client is exploitable on any client OS. Matters not if the client exploiting the vulnerability is inside or outside of Equifax.

Everything I've read says it was a vulnerability in a public-facing server. Nothing about an Equifax internal client running Windows being hacked to get to the server.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-15-2017, 07:03 PM:

In the specific case of Equifax, there are two issues (in my opinion).

First, their security manager has no education in computers, technology, or security. She has a degree in music composition. [Confused]

Second, Apache Struts is one of those Frankenstein monsters that's grown far past the point where anyone really understands what it does, and that includes the folks who develop and maintain the framework itself. Not to mention that Struts is built on Java, which brings its own set of issues to the table, and it simply boggles my mind how many large outfits use that thing.

But then, what do I know. I don't have a degree in music composition, after all.

EDIT: Actually I do know why large outfits use Apache Struts. It makes web application development very quick and easy. Security and doing it right be damned if we're paying those programmer yahoos by the hour, right? And who was the lowest bidder, again?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-15-2017, 08:22 PM:

Actually, if you're operating in Equifax's field of business and a single security exploit in a single piece of software you're using can cause a data breach this massive, you're simply doing it *WRONG*.

Everybody that allows a piece of rapid development MVC crapola directly touch a database, containing millions upon millions of personal records is simply retarded. There are really NO excuses for such kind of sloppy implementations.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-17-2017, 10:45 PM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Actually, if you're operating in Equifax's field of business and a single security exploit in a single piece of software you're using can cause a data breach this massive, you're simply doing it *WRONG*.

It's surprising how many seriously mission critical systems (healthcare, financial services, you name it) have been found to have had vulnerabilities like that.

One of the UK's largest retail banks pretty much melted down as the result of a botched attempt to install an update patch. That one stuck in my mind, because I was in the process of putting my financial affairs in order in preparation for emigrating from the UK to the USA at the time, and that caused me a lot of time consuming problems. All the traffic lights in a small city near here suddenly went red and stayed red for a day and a half last year, thanks to similar systems maintenance that went wrong and the backup system not having been tested before the primary one was taken down for maintenance.

Scary to say, but this sort of thing happens way more often than it should, and it's usually the result of not taking simple precautions around backing up, basic security and/or software installation that I was taught as a high school kid in the 1980s on BBC Micros and Sinclair Spectrums...

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-17-2017, 11:47 PM:

Which is why I made the accusation that a Windows PC was likely involved in this exploit somehow. The actual web site and database may be running on Apache. But many of the other machines touching it are running Windows. It takes a street smart user to keep a Windows box safe. Plenty of users are far from street smart. Too many are impulsive and fatally curious when it comes to email attachments and strange links. Too many are lazy about keeping up with security updates. Their machines get infected with malware. Then the thieves gain access to the idiot users' computers, which likely contain the keys to the kingdom, including access to web servers and other connected databases. The Equifax hack could have happened along these lines.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 09-19-2017, 03:18 PM:

Yes, though I’m disappointed there won’t be a gold one.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 09-19-2017, 04:23 PM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Unfortunately, this isn't an Apple-only problem, Samsung for example, did their best to copy Apple on this one years ago. It's funny how most of the top-end smart-phones all don't allow you to replace the battery.

As much as I hate it, there are some engineering reasons behind this. First and foremost, it moves all of the lithium ion safety circuitry to the board in the phone. While this is a cost reduction for batteries, the biggest benefit is that it ensures that 3rd party (Chinese knockoff) batteries are properly protected from over voltage and short circuit conditions.

As a side benefit, it makes it easier to design thinner phones. It also gets rid of issues with intermittent loss of contact on the battery connector.

Once battery life was long enough and charging time short enough that people didn't need to change batteries during the day, the integrated battery became a no brainer.

Us losers that don't replace our phone every 18 months just have to do the battery surgery or keep it on a charger all the time after a while.

The biggest pain of the "surgery" required to replace a battery in many phones is the adhesives that they like to use that seem to turn into high strength epoxy from the heat over time.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-19-2017, 05:45 PM:

It could be Windows. It could be Russians. It could be some 400 pound guy living in his mom's basement.

Nobody has claimed any of that yet. (afaik)

But it is established that it was an exploit of a known security flaw in a public-facing Apache server.

Not arguing, just trying to follow the facts related to this specific breach. [Wink]

. I'm well aware of Windows' vulnerabilities.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-20-2017, 06:40 AM:

quote: Lyle Romer
As a side benefit, it makes it easier to design thinner phones. It also gets rid of issues with intermittent loss of contact on the battery connector.

My 4 year old Blackberry has a replaceable battery, something that has NEVER annoyed me one bit is the thickness of the phone, it's thinner than a chocolate bar. Actually, it's just marginally thicker than my Galaxy S8. How many suppliers are as much obsessed about the thin-ness of their phone as Apple?

I think the only good reason for a non-user serviceable battery is if you want a phone with a high IP-rating, that's both water-resistent and sleek. Still, a phone that's just capable of withstanding a few drops of rain is sufficient for 95% of all users.

quote: Lyle Romer
Us losers that don't replace our phone every 18 months just have to do the battery surgery or keep it on a charger all the time after a while.

The thing is, it's getting increasingly hard to do so. I've got a 2 year old Microsoft Surface with a dying battery. It's not like you just remove a few screws to get to the battery, you need special tools to open the case, special tools to remove the glue and special glue to stick the stuff back together. If you're not trained, it will take you the better part of a day. It's just not economical for me to do this. This stuff is intentionally built to be unserviceable, they want me to buy a new machine.

If we would give just a tiny little shit about our environment, maybe we would start to hold those companies accountable for the crap they produce. I don't care wether this is Apple, Samsung or whatnot, they're all in this together. If I'm supposed to throw away otherwise good piece hardware after less than two years of use due to a little defect, at least they should make sure it doesn't just end up somewhere in a landfill in India and recylce every little bit of it. Or maybe even better: Just extend the liability of any product with some substantial value to 5 years by law. It's not like it is THAT difficult to engineer stuff that lasts, it's far harder to engineer stuf that breaks at exactly the right moment in its "lifecycle"...

quote: David Stambaugh
It could be Windows. It could be Russians. It could be some 400 pound guy living in his mom's basement.

Nobody has claimed any of that yet. (afaik)

But it is established that it was an exploit of a known security flaw in a public-facing Apache server.

Not arguing, just trying to follow the facts related to this specific breach. . I'm well aware of Windows' vulnerabilities.

It wasn't an Apache server. Apache Struts is NOT the same product as the Apache Web Server. Apache is an Open Source Software foundation and it hosts many open source products and projects. Struts is one of them. Struts is a so called MVC framework. Essentially it's a rapid development tool targeted at web applications. It's written in Java and runs both on Linux, several flavours of UNIX and Windows. Essentially, on every platform that runs the fully featured Java Virtual Machine.

Now, I think the point isn't that it was Apache Struts, or Windows, or whatever it was. The problem is the design in itself. In a perfect world, all software would be without bugs and without security flaws. But we all know, we're not living in this perfect world. That's why, in case of security, you need to account for shit to happen. It's how we design planes, we try to implement all critical systems in such a way, that stuff can fail, because we know it will fail.

That's why real security happens in independent layers. We know, at one level, someone will eventually screw up. He/she will forget to install a patch, a zero-day vulnerability opens up and someone happens to exploit it even before you know it existed, etc. etc.

What should have happened here is that this Apache Struts thing should never have talked to the database, containing the motherload of information, directly. There should have been multiple layers in between. One of those layers should have been a "sanitation layer", one that evaluates all the requests going in and out of the database to the front-end. There could also have been an independent API between the database and the front-end.

In such cases, the unpatched vulnerability in the Apache Struts software on the front-end would probably still be inexcusable, but it would not have let to any significant data loss, because only one of the layers would've been impacted.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-20-2017, 10:31 AM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
My 4 year old Blackberry has a replaceable battery, something that has NEVER annoyed me one bit is the thickness of the phone, it's thinner than a chocolate bar. Actually, it's just marginally thicker than my Galaxy S8. How many suppliers are as much obsessed about the thin-ness of their phone as Apple?

Companies like Apple and Samsung strive to make their phones thinner and seemingly more elegant, like a fucking piece of jewelry to accessorize a high fasion wardrobe. And now the asshole companies are wrapping the whole damn phone case in glass, as if trying to keep the screen scratch-free isn't difficult enough! These are communication and productivity tools! Not jewelry!

Here's what I find hilarious with their tone-deaf, out of touch approach to product design. They go to all the effort to make their phones thin and elegant. What's the first thing a customer does after buying one of these highly over-priced devices? Slap on a screen protector and bulky drop-resistant case! So much for the thinness and elegance!

I have a Samsung Note 5. I recently checked out the new Note 8 and was immediately turned off by it. The tapered screen makes it difficult to install any sort of screen protector or drop-proof case. And the completely glassy all-around construction makes it a thin and slippery object. It would be very easy to drop one of these things or at least get it all scratched to hell. The product reviews seem pretty great, but they're only reviewing how the phone functions, not its extremely fragile exterior design.

There really needs to be a revolt against this tech-as-jewelry design philosophy. Go back 15 years and companies were making phones that could survive a drop or serious impact. My cousin Tommy had one of those kinds of phones. I don't remember the model, but it had pachmayr rubber built around the corners, almost like a pistol grip. He once dropped his phone out of a speeding car onto the highway. It did about a million high speed cart-wheels when it hit the pavement, but that device survived unscathed. None of these over-priced smart phones would stand up to that kind of torture test. But that's really the thing: the device makers don't want to make durable devices that can last many years. They want us continually "upgrading" every 18-24 months. They make more money that way. That's why we have the glued in batteries that last two years before they start going to hell.

It really pisses me off that personal computers are headed in this direction (thanks again for starting that trend, Apple). Glued in batteries, no user-serviceable parts, etc. make for a product that will have a shorter life span than need be. Notebook product reviewers get their panties in a twist if a notebook weighs more than 2 pounds. What kind of wimps are these people? I guess they don't realize they're contributing to this problem.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-20-2017, 12:05 PM:

In a former life I used to carry a Motorola radio. One day I was chasing someone and the radio popped out of my holster and came down in front of my boot for a perfect touch-down kick. I couldn't have kicked it any better if I tried. The radio went flying off way up in the air and across the street and I thought, "Oh damn, that's the end of that radio."

After getting the rest of the situation sorted out I went back to see if I could find my radio and pick up the pieces. And there it was, laying on the pavement. I picked it up and wiped it off and it was in perfect condition; not even scratched.

Those Motorolas had to be the toughest technology around.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 09-20-2017, 12:53 PM:

I'm thinking the phone my cousin Tommy had was a Motorola. What ever it was the thing was a tough little beast.

In all the phone advertising (TV commercials, etc) people carry around these jewelry devices "naked" -no protection at all. Who actually does that in real life? Even the biggest iPhone fans will usually have the handset tucked into some kind of case, often one with a hole in the back to show off the Apple logo. Can't cover up that status symbol.

But I can imagine a scene at some penthouse cocktail party where "elite" people are hob-knobbing. One guy gets a text alert. So he reaches into his Armani™ jacket for his new Samsung Galaxy Note 8. The naked phone squirts out of his hand like a wet fish trying to escape back to the river. The phone hits the polished hardwood floor, speeding across like a shuffle board puck between the footsteps of party goers. The phone comes to a sudden, fatal stop, speared under a woman's Christian Louboutin stiletto heel. The party goers all laugh.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 09-20-2017, 12:53 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
Those Motorolas had to be the toughest technology around.

That's why for years, all of the police and fire 2-way radios and pagers around here were Motorola.

Kenwood's made inroads in recent years. It seems to work well enough, but I'm not sure their stuff would survive a drop kick across the street.

Posted by James Biggins (Member # 8574) on 09-20-2017, 12:56 PM:

Q. Are you gonna get the iPhone "X"?

A. No

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-20-2017, 02:05 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Here's what I find hilarious with their tone-deaf, out of touch approach to product design. They go to all the effort to make their phones thin and elegant.

...like a fucking piece of jewelry to accessorize a high fasion wardrobe

You nailed it right there: It's driven by women. Especially young women. They see their phone as an accessory, not a "tool." It's in their hands 90% of the time, so in the back of their minds, I think it's just as important as a watch or a ring, looks-wise.

My wife and I have identical phones. The case on mine is a plain black with rubber grips around the edges and on the back. It is ugly, but doesn't slide around when I set it on a surface, and I never drop it. The case on hers has a picture of palm trees on the back, is slippery all around, and is easy to drop. But, she likes the way it looks. I didn't care about the looks on mine, I wanted to protect my phone and not drop it.

The younger women are, the more important the look of their phone is to them. I have one friend who has various different phone cases to match whatever outfit she's wearing that day!

As for the non-replaceable battery thing, that's also easy to answer: It's because of all the people (men AND women) who are obsessed with having the latest gadget. If you were a tech company, and you knew that 75% of your buyers would happily shell out for your newest product (especially if it's more "elegant" than the previous one), why wouldn't you come out with a new version every year or so?

In short, they're not "out of touch." On the contrary, they know their market all too well. They don't make the battery replaceable because they don't need to.

They're just playing into modern human nature. The practical ones (like us on this board) are the ones who get the shaft.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-20-2017, 02:41 PM:

So, what I'm hearing is there's a niche market for "manly" phones.

Actually, there's a niche market for "manly" phone cases that are about protecting the phone. From the Phone as Accessory POV, that's perfect. It is easier to toughen up a slim, breakable phone than to slim down a brick.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-20-2017, 07:42 PM:

quote: Martin McCaffrey
Actually, there's a niche market for "manly" phone cases...

...which is being served by Otter cases (and probably others, too). Put your phone in one and it will become heavier and bulkier than the women described by Bobby would tolerate, but they do a superb job in protecting the phone from mechanical shocks and screen damage.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 09-21-2017, 10:31 AM:

quote: Frank Cox
Those Motorolas had to be the toughest technology around.

Back in another life, I was an engineer at Motorola. At that time, the design philosophy of all portable products (even the Star-Tac) was that they be able to withstand abuse.

Everything had to pass a severe accelerated life test suite that included a drop test regime. There was even the infamous "ball bearing test" where a ball bearing (shocking, I know) was dropped from some height (can't remember exactly) onto the screen. The screen had to withstand the impact without breaking.

Unfortunately, as cell phones morphed from a communications tool into a fashion accessory, the requirements for durability were reduced. Who knows if there are any standards now that they are owned by Lenovo.

I would assume that the professional grade devices (police radios, etc.) that are made by Motorola Solutions (the surviving, American part of Motorola) are still designed to those type of standards.