This is topic Replace your oven element in forum Film-Yak at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 05-07-2018, 07:25 PM:
 
We have a standard-issue electric stove (Kenmore brand actually) and four years ago almost exactly I replaced the oven element since it quit. I made a note on the instruction manual and it says April 28, 2014.

Today my wife cranked the oven up and the element actually caught on fire! Leapin' snakes! It didn't burn anything but about four inches of the element but when I dismounted the element it snapped in half at that point.

So I've made a note to change that element every three years as a preventive measure in the future. It's one thing if it quits and just dies, but when it's on fire that's something else.

I'm pretty sure that the last time I changed it when it just quit. But apparently these things are a fire hazard if they get too old as well.

I'd rather spend $30 on an element every few years and spend twenty minutes changing it than have a fire in my kitchen, thanks.
 

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Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 05-07-2018, 08:18 PM:
 
Good idea. We've had one burn up a but too but not quite that bad.
 

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Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 05-07-2018, 10:20 PM:
 
I as assuming that the issue wasn't just the element, but I had an element somehow turn itself on and just got hotter and hotter (past even the max temp setting) till it burned a gap in itself. This happen just out of the blue even though the oven was set to OFF. Thank god I was home and could feel the heat coming from the kitchen and was able to unplug it from the outlet.
 

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Posted by Alexandre Pereira (Member # 9295) on 05-07-2018, 11:07 PM:
 
Was this the Fifth Element?
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-09-2018, 06:48 AM:
 
Good one, Alenandre!

If this were even a remote potential danger, you would think Kenmore (isn't that Sears?) or whoever imports these from China, would have a very visible warning in the manual that the element should be replaced every such-and-such years.

You should really report this to the manufacturer -- although they tend to want to keep facts like these, you know...that their products can set your home ablaze -- under raps. Definitely also report it to the Consumer Product Safety Commission -- the guys who initiate product recalls. At least there was such an agency before we decided that it was bad for business to regulate stuff...like household appliances that burst into flames. I'd also email Consumer Reports as well; let them know -- you really want to get the word out if there is even a remote possibility that this is a product design flaw.
 

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Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 05-09-2018, 08:33 AM:
 
I don't think the CPSC would be the right regulatory agency for him to contact...since he's from Canada.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-09-2018, 08:43 AM:
 
Well Sear's went bankrupt here last year most likely your unit is a fridgadare rebranded
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-09-2018, 10:17 AM:
 
Frank, I think the agency in Canada would be "Health Canada" , their equivalent of the CPSC. (IIRC CPSC also shares data and reports with Health Canada and vice-versa.)

Sears/Kenmore ranges of "millennial" vintage have some serious safety and design flaws: Video of control panel violent failure as well as elements turning on by themselves as Michael Gonzalez mentioned. Element turning on by itself

I am dreading having to replace my fridge with a new one after my 30+ year old one fails. (I have to get the shallow counter depth due to space limits when I do, since my upcoming remodel has a galley layout and tight aisle.) The new ones won't last anywhere near 30 years, and I have heard only 5-10 years max is typical of the new ones. (And spending close to 2 grand doesn't help. The old one costs about $450)
 

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Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 05-09-2018, 11:15 AM:
 
The part that was on fire is a third-party oven element that I bought at the hardware store four years ago. So who knows where it came from or who made it.

I guess the thing to do is to change it every few years as a preventive measure.

The fire did go out as soon as I switched the oven off and all that was burned was part of the element.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-09-2018, 04:00 PM:
 
I've had an oven on fire about 4 years ago. The fire started at the "top" heating element used for the "grilling" functionality which was enabled at the time.

Although grease buildup is the most common cause for a fire around such elements, the oven was thoroughly cleaned just a day or two before the fire. The heating element was also cleaned and afterwards I suspect that this could've been the trigger.

Since the oven was built-into the kitchen, the only way to turn it off was by flipping a breaker. I've extinguished the fire with a fire extinguisher. It was an assurance for me that those things actually work as intended.

The oven was a total loss, as was the separate microwave appliance positioned above it. The heat coming out of the burning oven was not only sufficient to melt the entire front of the appliance itself, but also that of the microwave oven.

In the end, the damage was pretty confined, but it could've easily burned the place down if it went on unnoticed for a few minutes. Since then, I'm pretty reluctant to leave something in the oven, without actively supervising it.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-09-2018, 08:14 PM:
 
We have gas heating for the stove, oven, and clothes dryer. I don't like to leave either running when I'm not keeping an eye on them, because I figure that an AFCI at least stands a good chance of stopping an electrical fire in its tracks (we have combined AFCI/GFCIs on every circuit breaker on the panel, apart from the 240v one for the HVAC condenser unit), but it can't do anything to prevent gas from igniting. A small arc/spark that causes an AFCI to trip could be big enough to ignite leaking gas.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-10-2018, 06:12 AM:
 
Wow Leo. I'm amazed you can live with AFCI/GFCI on everything. Nuisance trips are a PITA and AFCI are easily fooled, particularly for gas appliances. The igniters make the kind of noise that AFCI is looking for (high frequency noise in the 200KHz region). It is a case where they found something that CAN be an arc but not necessarily and burden society with a protection that probably has a 1000:1 (or more false trips).

GFCI isn't as bad as its trigger is more than 5mA disparity between line and neutral. There more things you have on either on any circuit (including the distance between the device (breaker or outlet) greatly affect nuisance trips.

In our kitchen, EVERY receptacle is its own GFCI and that had dropped nuisance trips to zero. AFIC on a branch circuit is okay if they are on GP outlets where typically one or zero things are plugged in but the more you have plugged in, geometrically, you increase your chance of false trips. And if you do have gas appliances with their igniters, if it is code in your area/year of building to have AFCI, you're probably better off to use a dedicated receptacle for each of those devices than to use a breaker that is likely some distance from the device. The real goal of the AFCI is to prevent in-wall arcs from slowing working their way into a fire. Dedicated/designated circuits are rarely going have that opportunity (washer/dryer 120V receptacle). An oddity of the NEC code, though I believe they updated it in 2017 to cover it, the washer outlet does not need to be GFCI unless it is within 6-feet of a sink. Isn't the washer sort of a sink in and of itself? Even a front loader, the odds that you have wet hands are reasonably high. Our house, recently built and due to when permits were filed and when the locality adopted NEC codes, has a laundry closet for the washer/dryer and that outlet has no GFCI because, for sure, in the 2012 NEC code (the prevailing one on construction permit) does not require it. Laundry areas, like kitchens, have/had separate designations in the code.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-12-2018, 10:09 PM:
 
We occasionally get a nuisance trip provoked by the toaster oven, but even then probably only about 2-3 times a year.

I suspect that the GFCI/AFCI combos installed on our main breaker panel rather than individual outlets were the result of a combination of California electrical code(s) gold plating the NEC, and the builder (in 2007) wanting to do things as cheaply as possible.

Still, given that SoCal is full of wooden-framed buildings in the middle of bone-dry vegetation, and a high earthquake risk area, I can see the reason why arc fault protection is required.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-13-2018, 02:27 AM:
 
AFCI isn't mandatory around here, but GFCI/RCCB is. While GFCI/RCCB can give you some random searches for bad equipment or faulty wiring from time to time, I think it's a necessary evil, especially in the advent of cheapskate, non-grounded appliances with metallic surfaces that can easily kill you due to crappy internal wiring or non-regulatory cheapo PCB designs where high voltage and low voltage are running just a few milometers apart from each other.

AFCI seemed like a great idea at first, but I've since given up on it, because it triggered far too often. Even using a power drill was practically impossible. Maybe if I could redo the electrical wiring in my home and in the office, I would consider separate circuits for "temporary" equipment that's prone to trigger the AFCI/AFDD switch.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-13-2018, 10:54 AM:
 
All gas here, I had an electric stove at my last house and really hated it.

Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-13-2018, 06:32 PM:
 
Generally speaking, the breaker method is more expensive than a receptacle. A GFCI or AFCI recept. can protect all down-wind recepts on a branch.

However, in the AFCI world and in NEC speak, an "outlet" is ANYTHING that outputs electricity (including light fixtures). A receptacle is a particular type of outlet. In general, NOW, all 120V circuits that are either used or CONTROLLED by the living space of a home (switches that control outside fixtures included) need to be protected by AFCI. Again, the idea is, if something in a wall is arcing, particularly something like a switch, you don't want that starting a fire in your house and you might not even be thinking that the controlling device (or its wiring) is the start of the fire.

GFCI remains for wet (kitchen, bathrooms, anywhere there is a sink within 6-feet) and unfinished areas (garages, unfinished basements, outside).
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-13-2018, 08:02 PM:
 
Not sure I get replacing an oven element like you would a UPS battery.

Our oven has had the same elements that were in it when we bought the place... 33 years ago... and it was old then.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-13-2018, 10:47 PM:
 
My mom's stove was about 40 years old when she replaced it about 6 years ago. The new one lasted 5 years.

We bought a new stove when we got married almost 18 years ago. It still works fine. The house I lived in for about 15 years before we got married had an ancient stove that had to be from the 1940s or '50s....as far as I know, it's still in that house and working.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-14-2018, 06:16 AM:
 
I guess back to the Original Topic. I've never had to replace an oven/stove element. In my parent's house the original stove/oven/range (Whatever you want to call it) lasted our entire multi-decade stay there without any elements being changed (that I'm aware of, at least). Now it was from the '60s, not modern stuff.

Like Mark, we are all gas here so no elements to worry about.
 

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Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 05-14-2018, 07:33 AM:
 
Gas is not perfect either.

The thermostat failed and left the oven burner on full and could not be turned off.

Had to pull the stove away from the wall and turn of the gas valve behind the stove.

Very scary as it cremated one batch of cookies beyond recognition.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-14-2018, 11:16 AM:
 

quote: Kenneth Wuepper

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Very scary as it cremated one batch of cookies beyond recognition.

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I always set a timer, either on the stove or on my phone. Nothing ever gets burned.... I do this even when cooking on molten lava!

Mark
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-14-2018, 11:25 AM:
 
In addition to the local gas shutoffs at each device, at the gas manifold where the distribution happens are individual shutoffs in addition to the master shutoff.

So if something where to be really amiss, as you describe, one need not pull out the thing that has open flames to shut it off.

Nothing is perfect but for heating things, I'll take gas over electricity any day.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-14-2018, 02:54 PM:
 
Gas can leak and can cause explosions, but gas can also easily be detected. Electricity can arc, short circuit, electrocute and overheat.

In general anything that has a lot of (potential) energy running through needs some special care or else stuff has the tendency to go haywire.

As long as we keep making electricity from mostly fossil fuels, I guess burning gas directly is still more environmental friendly than electricity if the end result should be just heat.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-14-2018, 04:27 PM:
 
Whereas they are getting the efficiency of things like furnaces up to 97-98% efficient, it's pretty good at turning its BTUs into warmth.

Electricity just is a controlled short circuit.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-15-2018, 06:32 PM:
 
Gas cooks best. . . . period. That said, we converted to electric when I was 6. I had been cooking for 2 years. Electric has stayed with us over the years due to lack-of-gas from the utility company and a couple of homes. I am 69.9 years old now and likely will stay with electric unless I build a new house!
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-15-2018, 08:16 PM:
 
My wife and I are both lifetime electrical cookers (as is my mom) but we have two friends who swear gas is the shizz, so our stove is almost 20 years old so we're thinking of switching. I guess it depends on how much it would cost to run the gas line and such.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-15-2018, 08:55 PM:
 
My wife ALWAYS wanted gas. So, on the new house, since natural gas was not in the neighborhood, we put in propane. I declared that if we are going to have propane, then anything that generates a lot of heat will use it. So it feeds the oven, water heater (tankless), furnace, generator, clothes dryer. I'm not the cook (I microwave) but as far as HVAC, gas is the way to go. Instant heat.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-15-2018, 10:50 PM:
 

quote: Kenneth Wuepper

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Gas is not perfect either.

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