Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 20th Century-Fox (1935-2019)

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Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 03-19-2019, 04:55 PM:

As I am typing this, Twentieth Century-Fox is in its last few hours as independent studio before being swallowed up tomorrow by Disney. It’s a shame to see this happen, even though the label itself will continue under the Mouse. After recovering from the debacle that was Cleopatra, the Zanuck-era Fox went on an impressive run of production, with the kind of stuff that the young me found very watchable. As I look at my home video collection, I notice that Fox is the most represented major studio in both film and television, with titles from Sunrise (1927) thru to Florence Foster Jenkins (2016), with stops at things like The Day the Earth Stood Still, Fantastic Voyage, Planet of the Apes, Phantom of the Paradise, Star Wars, Alien, Rocky Horror, Young Frakenstein, Office Space, Idiocracy et. al. in between. Their TV division was no slouch either, I grew up with Batman, Lost in Space, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, MASH and so many more. Technologically, of course, they more-or-less pioneered the 2:39 aspect ratio domestically, with their own sized sprocket holes!

I suppose it all makes business sense, but it’s still hard to see great things get swallowed up by mediocre things, because the mediocre things have better finances. I’m watching with horror what AT&T is doing to HBO and Turner. A good friend is losing his job soon because WarnerMedia is shutting down HBO’s Long Island operations center, and there are rumors within the industry that Turner Classic Movies is on its way out in favor of something more contemporary. All this engulf and devour stuff sucks and breeds unexceptional and uninspired crap, IMHO. There will, of course, be great shareholder value [fu]

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-19-2019, 05:46 PM:

I'm just hoping that they don't put weeks-to months minimum booking periods on everything like they do with the Disney stuff now. Someone in New York can play a movie for six or eight weeks and still get a crowd but that's not the case for small theatres like mine. By the time they'll give me a movie for just one week, it's old news and people have moved on to the next shiny thing. Sure there's still some people who come to see it, but nothing close to what would be here if I played their stuff in a more timely manner.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-19-2019, 06:07 PM:

quote: Mark Ogden
All this engulf and devour stuff sucks and breeds unexceptional and uninspired crap, IMHO. There will, of course, be great shareholder value .

Yeah, it's all about increasing shareholder value. And creating pseudo monopolies in the process. The goal is giant-sized companies with little, if any, competition. Abuse of consumers is sure to follow.

I think these latest mergers have been inspired by the rise of online streaming. Anyone who enjoys streaming TV shows and movies might want to mark this specific point in time for posterity. Once the streaming services from Disney, Warner and others get up and running the quality/value of the services will start to suck. As the major studios stick it to Netflix and Amazon, yanking lots of programming from those platforms, it's almost a sure fire bet they won't offer similar levels of pricing and value as Amazon and Netflix. I totally expect big price hikes and stingy program offerings to go with it. In the long run streaming could end up sucking as bad as traditional cable/satellite service.

Meanwhile the Justice Dept, other regulators and lawmakers are asleep at the wheel. These global media companies are far bigger and more pervasive in their reach than the classic big movie studios were before the government broke them apart. Sony owns a big electronics company that makes TVs, camera gear and even lots of pro broadcast gear. Disney is on the board of Apple. AT&T owns a great deal of telecom infrastructure. But as we know the regulators don't care about huge and monopolistic these companies get. As long as the shareholders are doing well the concerns of anyone else don't matter.

One thing I think is funny is these buy-outs are happening at a time when a bunch of major franchises are about to end. And that would make the value of these buy-outs a past-peak thing. The glory days of the Marvel Cinematic Universe will come to an end next month with Avengers: Endgame. Also in April, HBO's Game of Thrones series will start its final season. Lots of other franchises are long in the tooth. These giant media companies are becoming content gate-keepers of a whole lot more gates. But what in the way of NEW content will these pseudo monopolies develop to convince customers to pay the steep prices they're going to charge?

Wasn't HBO's operations center in Long Island there from the very beginning of the network? It's a shame people out there are losing their jobs over AT&T's buy-out. But job losses are another common feature to mergers and acquisitions. The new, bigger company gets loaded up with debt. One way to reduce the bill [i]and bring more "value" to shareholders is cutting the hell out of payroll.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-19-2019, 08:59 PM:

I tend to think that Warners has the best library (in part because so many MGM titles are now part of it), but Fox also has some very good titles. I hope that these remain readily available for booking.

Not sure how to feel about the Disney acquisition. Disney is sort of an annoying company to deal with on the exhibition side, but they also make good films and do a good job of maintaing their library (even though they are not good about making many titles available).

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-19-2019, 11:50 PM:

About the only potentially good thing I see about Disney buying up 20th Century Fox: we could possibly, finally see the original, unaltered versions of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi released on Blu-ray or even in theaters again. Maybe.

I'm still not all that optimistic such a thing will pass. Retail stores that sell movies, music and books have been in severe decline. Movies on physical media almost seem like an endangered thing now. From a business angle it's not the best environment for a restored-Star Wars release. Still, it's pretty important for true film fans.

Here's an even more cynical possibility: Disney could release the original, unaltered versions of the original Star Wars Trilogy, but do it as an exclusive for their streaming service. I wouldn't put it past them to post it there and not make it available anywhere else.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-20-2019, 02:43 AM:

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-20-2019, 04:08 AM:

quote:
About the only potentially good thing I see about Disney buying up 20th Century Fox: we could possibly, finally see the original, unaltered versions of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi released on Blu-ray or even in theaters again. Maybe.

Psst... Despecialized Editions [Wink]

I'm not trying to get anybody to pirate stuff, but, if you, like me, own the original editions on VHS and LaserDisc and the DVD and Blu Ray editions of the altered ones, I feel somewhat entitled to get the best version of them available right now.

I would still buy the original versions on Blu-Ray if Disney would ever release them...

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-20-2019, 08:47 AM:

Also, this is probably the time to remind everyone of this infamous letter (see below).

At the time, I wrote a nice response to Chris Aronson and asked him some questions about what was written in the letter. He never replied. That seemed rather rude. At the very least, he could have had his secretary send a form letter or something.

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 03-20-2019, 09:31 AM:

All I can say is, I would certainly hate to be a theater operator right about now. I have heard that Disney is a pain in the ass about booking and splits just by themselves, now they have all of Fox to break balls with as well. I can imagine dealing with them will only become more onerous from now on. I only hope they keep Fox Searchlight, which has been a quality source for art-house and alternative programming.

TV wise, it will be very interesting to see how they will operate their streaming operation, and whether or not they will still licence product to Netflix and other services. The industry scuttlebutt is that HBO will at some time in the future drop off cable and become a streaming-only service themselves, to increase revenue and compete more directly with all of the others. Gonna be bloody.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Wasn't HBO's operations center in Long Island there from the very beginning of the network?

HBO's original NOC was at 120-A East 23rd Street in Manhattan, where I worked briefly in the early eighties running movies from Ampex 1" VTRs and doing film transfers. I usually had the late shift so I was the one who threaded up all the boobie movies on Cinemax. One of the reasons I left was that I didn't want to move to Long Island to work at the Hauppague facility, which was being built while I was there.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-20-2019, 10:16 AM:

I remember that office on East 23rd Street. I often walked past it on the way to classes at School of Visual Arts. I didn't know it was the original network operations center. If I recall correctly after roughly 30 years, the office was pretty non-descript. No big signs or anything. Just some HBO graphics on the office door.

quote: Mark Ogden
TV wise, it will be very interesting to see how they will operate their streaming operation, and whether or not they will still licence product to Netflix and other services. The industry scuttlebutt is that HBO will at some time in the future drop off cable and become a streaming-only service themselves, to increase revenue and compete more directly with all of the others. Gonna be bloody.

Just to repeat it again, I don't know/why the DOJ let this merger fly, at least not with making the newly merged company divest a bunch of properties. Disney will now have control of two major OTA broadcast networks, ABC and Fox. This is almost like letting NBC and CBS merge. Shit, I wouldn't even be surprised to see that now. Disney has control of a bunch of cable networks, including ESPN -one of the networks that makes traditional cable TV too damn expensive.

Regarding HBO "de-coupling" completely from traditional cable, they're already well on their way with that now. The network's departure from Dish appears to be permanent. The other premiums have their own stand-alone streaming options now. As for AT&T/Warner's goal to "grow revenue" with HBO, I think that's some wishful thinking. What does HBO have to offer once Game of Thrones is done? The network does have some good original programming. But is it worth paying $179.88 per year for HBO Now?

I do agree though that it's gonna be bloody. But I think it's going to get bloody in ways these giant sized companies do not expect. Millions of Americans have been cord-cutting for a reason. As tight a strangle-hold grip as these few companies try to get on the distribution of movies, TV shows and music other options are going to pop up. These giant companies only seem to be interested in selling bland, predictable content and not taking chances on new ideas. That will open up opportunities for others, perhaps content creators in other countries. Disney, AT&T/Warner and Comcast can't wall off America's Internet from the rest of the world.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-20-2019, 01:25 PM:

I suppose that the counter-argument to Bobby's comments would be this (at least with respect to television): we used to have to worry about consolidation in the television and radio industry when available RF spectrum space limited the number of possible channels. In the future, with online streaming, there is (in principle) no limit to the number of "broadcasters." Anyone with good programming is free to make it available to the world.

And, yes, I realize that the situation is not that simple, and that many people (myself included) still get their television programming over RF. Also, the ability to self-distribute content has always existed in the motion-picture industry, but it's pretty rare to find a movie that wasn't distributed by one of the big studios playing at a Regal or AMC (or other major chain) cinema. Independent distributors have had some success with VHS/DVD distribution, but that has been limited as well.

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out over time, particularly with respect to the home streaming situation.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-20-2019, 07:32 PM:

I'm glad Fox was bought by Disney and not some other company. Disney is committed to the theatrical window, does a good job with the movies it makes, and has the best marketing in the business. Who knows, we might get another good Ice Age movie. Maybe Scrat will become the new mascot of the "Blizzard Beach" water park.

I have a few regrets. Disney is the hardest company to get promotional material out of. They do have the &!#&@ long playtimes, although they're allowing 2 week runs on Dumbo and our neighboring theater got out of Captain Marvel after 2 weeks, too.

But: They make quality product that puts butts in the seats, they're dependable, and they support theatrical. So for now I'm pro-Disney. The minute they start releasing some major movie on their streaming service day and date, I may jump ship.

It'll be interesting to revisit this topic in a few years after we've all seen what's going to happen.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 03-20-2019, 11:04 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Disney will now have control of two major OTA broadcast networks, ABC and Fox.

No it won't. The Fox network is part of New Fox, which Disney does not own.
Disney does NOT get the following:
Fox Broadcasting Co.
Fox Television Stations Group
Fox News Channel
Fox Business Network
Fox Sports including: Big Ten Network, Fox Deportes, FS1, FS2, Fox Soccer Plus, Fox College Sports and Fox Sports International.
New Fox also retains ownership of the 20thCFox studio lot, although it will be leased by Disney.
And Disney doesn't get the 39% of Sky that Fox owned which has been since been sold to Comcast.

Disney does get:
Fox Entertainment Group:
--20th C Fox
---Fox Searchlight, Blue Sky Studios, Fox Star Studios
--Fox Networks Group
---FX Networks

National Geographic Partners
Star TV
Hulu (30%) (Disney already owned 30%)
Endermol Shine Group

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 03-21-2019, 03:24 PM:

Ha ha, I remember that letter, I remember just being impressed they took the time to send a schmuck like me one! I just hope we never lose the Fox fanfare. Disney is delightful to deal with in this country, the 3-week bookings on their bigger titles are a little tough for us with one screen, so we do pass on some of them. Be nice if we can get our second screen built, won't be an issue then, even if it kind of flops, we could play first on Screen 1, then Screen 2 then play second on Screen 2.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 03-21-2019, 10:30 PM:

They kind of ruined the Fox fanfare when they had it play the "Cinemascope extension" on flat movies, and I never liked the CG version either.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-22-2019, 12:43 PM:

Here's a Variety article about layoffs at Fox. The comments (which I didn't include here) are interesting in that they show almost no sympathy for the poor, millionaire high-level execs, who have known this was coming for over a year now, and who are having to suffer through this horrible ordeal by enduring severance packages that include UP TO TWO YEARS' PAY.

I find it interesting that they say in the article that "the cuts were small in number," but they don't say how many people were cut. If they cut a small number of people, that would seem to be a good thing, wouldn't it?

Fox Layoffs Leave Staffers Stunned and Saddened
By BRENT LANG and MATT DONNELLY

Fox employees knew this day was coming. For over a year, the men and women who work at the Century City lot have talked of little else but severance packages and job searches. They knew that when Disney wrapped up its $71.3 billion acquisition of much of 21st Century Fox’s film and television assets, thousands of jobs would be eliminated.

But, as they found out on Thursday, there is a difference between anticipating a painful future and watching that feared reality come to pass. The ax fell at the film division with brutal efficiency, wiping away much of the senior leadership at Fox’s marketing, distribution, and consumer products arms. Some staffers, who had been engaging in gallows humor for weeks, burst into tears when they received the word in one-on-one meetings with human resources reps that their positions were being terminated. Others retreated to nearby bars to host impromptu Irish wakes for bosses who had been let go or colleagues who were among those laid off (the Westfield Century City Mall, located just behind the Fox lot, boasts at least a dozen watering holes).

The cuts were small in number, but seismic in impact. Studio veterans such as domestic distribution chief Chris Aronson, president of product strategy and consumer business development Mike Dunn, worldwide theatrical marketing president Pam Levine, and chief content officer Tony Sella, who have decades of experience, were gone in short order, taking with them pieces of the institutional memory of a studio that has made everything from Shirley Temple musicals to “Avatar.”

Much of the top Fox film leadership has been engaged in high-level conversation with Disney for months now, one insider with knowledge of the conversations told Variety. Decisions over job cuts could not be shared until Thursday thanks to regulatory rules surrounding the massive deal, the insider added.

Some of these job losses were expected. Other moves were shocking, such as Disney’s decision to shutter the Fox 2000 label. That move could mean that Elizabeth Gabler, Fox 2000’s head, will be snapped up by a competitor. Her former bosses Jim Gianopulos, now overseeing Paramount, and Tom Rothman, currently running herd at Sony, would dearly love a reunion.

Gabler has options. Others on the lot are looking out at a studio landscape that is shrinking rapidly as digital players such as Netflix upend the distribution world order. If they find jobs, they may be for less money or in startups rather than studio lots. Disney indicated in a late-Thursday announcement that Gabler would stay on through the completion of her film slate, though specifics were not immediately clear.

The mood on the sprawling Century City lot was said to be funereal. One Fox film vice president spent the day holed up in her office, unable to face co-workers until the bad news was stanched. That division was hit first and hit hard — more than a dozen senior executives were cut in a series of meetings that kicked off on the lot at 9 a.m and continued throughout the day.

“It’s quite a day here,” said a longtime Fox television executive, calling the experience “intense” as the hours ticked by.

One bright spot for staffers is generous severance packages. Many of the people cut on Thursday will get between a year and two years of pay, Variety previously reported. They plan to use the time off to reconnect with family and hunt for the next gig.

In some cases, executives had been previously informed to prepare to depart. In others, their hunches were confirmed in Thursday’s sit-down sessions. While emotions ran high, the film offices were unusually silent. Staffers that remained in the building gathered in small clusters to toast co-workers and reminisce.

“We’re talking about people who have brought in billions of dollars for this company,” said one exasperated executive, who is staying under Disney, of a veteran colleague who was laid off.

Sympathy is palpable across Hollywood. It’s a rare occurrence in a town whose signature scent is schadenfreude, and it’s perhaps attributable to the fact that no one feels safe in their position. The Fox sale isn’t expected to be the last studio to be auctioned off in this new era of media consolidation.

“I was in a three-hour meeting at CAA and when I came out, a storm cloud literally rolled over Century City while I read the names,” said one top talent manager, caught in a brief Los Angeles downpour. “I couldn’t have made that up if I tried.”

“We’ve been sitting around my desk, refreshing the articles and waiting for the next head to roll,” said one executive at a rival studio. “It’s morbid, but these are our friends.”

Thursday’s cuts are only a precursor to more job losses. Most of the layoffs were consigned to the film division, but staffers at Fox’s various television properties are bracing for layoffs to begin starting Friday.

“You may think you know what it’s going to be like,” said one departing Fox executive. “But nothing prepares you for when it really happens.”

Variety article

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-22-2019, 02:40 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Here's a Variety article about layoffs at Fox. The comments (which I didn't include here) are interesting in that they show almost no sympathy for the poor, millionaire high-level execs, who have known this was coming for over a year now, and who are having to suffer through this horrible ordeal by enduring severance packages that include UP TO TWO YEARS' PAY.

My sympathies aren't with the executives, most of whom will float into their next gigs via golden parachutes. However, it's pretty certain a lot of other lower level employees not so well-paid will get the axe too. Probably without quite so generous severance packages either. These media company buy-outs are never pretty. I remember the aftermath of General Electric buying NBC in the late 1980's. GE fired a whole bunch of people, literally clearing out floors worth of offices in the then-RCA building. I won't forget walking through some of those spaces in 1989.

I wonder if Fox Plaza (aka Nakatomi Plaza) in Los Angeles will retain its name. I assume 20th Century Fox will still a major tenant in the building leading up to the time of Disney's purchase of the company.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-26-2019, 12:24 AM:

Maybe they'll add the Fox fanfare on to the front of future Star Wars movies. That would be coolish. Give the Star Wars naysayers one less thing to gripe about (although I guess now they'd gripe that "it isn't really Fox")

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 03-31-2019, 11:21 PM:

When there's an acquisition, usually the acquirer takes a year before they got heavily involved in the day-to-day of the acquired company. And usually, the people who are let go work in backroom operations: accounting, facilities, HR, IT, etc. But Disney is acting much faster and word is that 3000 to 4000 people will be getting laid off, many of which have already been let go.

Disney has or is about to shut down FOX2000. They made "Hidden Figures" among other films. They've been heavily criticized for that.

It's suggested that Disney is being aggressive because they went into debt to fund the $72 billion acquisition (even though it was stock) and because they're not getting as much money for Fox's regional sports networks as they thought.

Some of Disney's actions seem counter-productive as the supposed reason for buying 20th Century Fox was to get the library and future films for Disney's new streaming service. You'd think they'd want to keep 20CFox whole to keep those films coming, although in recent years, Fox has only been putting out about 15 films per year, but most of the recent films and all of the films scheduled for 2020 are co-productions.

20thCFox logo on future Star Wars movies? I know the fans want it, but I truly doubt that will ever happen.