Nightmare Alley (2021) on 35mm

[Martin Brooks]

Same syndrome as manual transmission cars (in the USA) - even though they're mechanically simpler, demand for them is so tiny that you'll pay more and wait longer if you go into the Honda dealership and ask for a manual Civic, versus the CVT automatic version. The film emulsion and processing chemistry for dye coupler color is more complex, but as it likely accounts for around 90% of the stock and chemistry sold, b/w is more difficult and pricey.

Even back in 2003, it was almost impossible to order a manual transmission Honda Accord. It had to be special ordered and the salesperson was really upset with me for not taking a car from the lot. Today it's even harder.

Having said that, Kodak still sells Double-X 5222.

I assume it is the same reason that Young Frankenstein and other 1970’s B&W films were usually printed on color film stock. Cost, B&W film stock was, and probably still is, more expensive because B&W film stock contains silver, color film does not.

Further I suspect that many labs no longer have the chemistry needed to process B&W, limiting the studios to the few labs that can.

I don't know about lab processing costs, but in terms of print film, 2000' of 35mm Kodak Vision Color Print Film 2383 is $307. B&W 2302 is $539.

[Leo Enticknap]

I went through the same experience buying a HR-V in 2018. There was a two-month lead time. She didn't exactly try to dissuade me from buying it, but did emphasize that they had CVT models in stock there and then. I politely explained that I wasn't interested in having the belt break at around 80-100k miles, and needing a new transmission.

[Gordon McLeod]

The shedding on B&W was caused by the fact that the processing machines used to develop it didnt have edge waxing on the output since there use was mainly doing sound elements. After Pytlak convinced them to after processing run them through a waxer the problem more or less went away

[Kyle Mikolajczyk]

I remember being being somewhat surprised when I ran THE ARTIST in 2011 to discover
it was printed on color film stock, especially since whichever lab made the 35mm prints did
such an excellent job of emulating a B&W print, right down to simulating a bit of 'bromide
bleed' in the titles. At the time someone told me that the reason it was printed on the color
film stock was because "there was no way to print DolbyDigital™ on B&W film". I've
since found out that this was incorrect, and I've even seen DD on actual B&W film since
then. - - but I'd sitll be curious to know why the choice was made to use color film stock,
and then go through a lot of trouble to make it look B&W.

A while back I had prints made of some old newsreels that I own the negative of.
The lab charged me more because, black & white was a "special order" process they
don't run every day, so I had to pay more for it. However, I was only having a few
prints made. If I was having a large quantity made, as I would imagine was done for
"The Artist" - - the price came down quite a bit. So I'd still like to know why they chose
to use color film stock.

So Dolby Digital can be in black and white? Do you or anyone else have a photo of this? I am very curious to see a non-cyan DD “Fixel”.

[Michael Zarits]

22-02-01 12-18-49 5752.jpg

[Julian Antos]

B&W Print and intermediate stocks are still readily available from Kodak and Orwo, and in the US at least a handful of labs still process, print, and record onto it regularly. Just got some 16mm workprint back from Colorlab a few weeks ago.

The Nightmare Alley prints were made on a Cinevator Film Recorder, which make "direct positives" from digital files. These recorders are not set up to record onto B&W stock.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

I have seen the exact same thing happen with B&W film... 16mm does it too but to a lesser degree...

[Jim Cassedy]

Kyle Mikolajczyk asked:

So Dolby Digital can be in black and white? Do you or anyone else have a photo of this?
I am very curious to see a non-cyan DD “Fixel”.

I had to dig pretty far down in my dead-film file, but below are a couple of pix from a B&W theatrical
APPLE advertisement from appx 2010, (I think) There is no manufacturer ID, edge numbers or
date code to identify the film stock, but it's definitely Black & White emulsion ( I've tried scratching
off the emulsion and there's no green or yellow color layers underneath) - - and as you can see,
it has a DolbDigital™️track printed on it .

DolbyBlkWht_1.jpg

DolbyBlkWhit_2.jpg

JC