Avatar: Fire and Ash (2025)

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  • Jon Dent
    Pro Film Handler
    • Jan 2021
    • 420
    • Thief River Falls, MN USA

    #1

    Avatar: Fire and Ash (2025)

    in 2009 there was Avatar. It was groundbreaking, visually stunning, epic, etc... A bit simplistic in plot, but nothing terrible.

    In 2022 there was Avatar: The Way of Water. It was groundbreaking, visually stunning, epic. Maybe a bit too derivative of the first and long winded, but still epic, etc...

    In 2025 there is Avatar: Fire and Ash. It's visually stunning, and I suppose it's epic too. But oh boy, where to begin on how derivative and long winded this one is...

    The plot feels like it treads water for the entirety of it's three hour running time. The main plot is, in many regards, exactly the same as the last two turns in this world. Seriously, how many times do we need to see the human armada getting their asses kicked by Pandoran wildlife while Na'vi swoop in on flying mounts firing arrows and spears? How many times do we need to see Jake Sully one-handed firing his assault rifle while flying around? And how does that assault rifle still have ammunition after all these battles? Why did Cameron feel the need to bring back the boat captain who lost an arm in The Way of Water (guess he didn't die) and have him do THE EXACT SAME ACTIONS in this movie, with nearly the exact same outcome? Call me crazy, but if I had my arm ripped off in a confrontation with a huge, intelligent, speaking whale that managed to devastate my entire fishing fleet single handedly, I'd be ever-so-slightly hesitant about putting myself in the same situation again with hundreds more of them. Actually, I'd probably 'nope' my way right off world. This whole subplot is emblematic of just how lazy the writing is across the entire spectrum. Nobody grows, nobody changes, actions are repeated whole cloth from The Way of Water, and the world doesn't move forward in any meaningful way.

    And then to rub salt in your eyes, the few potentially interesting developments are shoved aside or backtracked on the moment they get in the way of the 'main plot'. Colonel Quaritch is a great example: In The Way of Water, he's resurrected as a Na'vi, and given a son who's not only still human, but tossed his flag in with the enemy. In Fire and Ash, he's forced to cooperate with Sully, his sworn nemesis, to keep his son safe. Later on, he's casually discarded by the same military he's devoted his (multiple) life(s) to. Man, that's some fertile ground for rich character development, and there are moments when Quaritch genuinely seems to be growing into a more complex character. Oh, but then Cameron seems to remember that nuance is a bad thing, so in the next scene Quaritch devolves once again into the two dimensional 'bad guy' whose only motivation is to kill Jake Sully. Cameron did Quaritch's character development dirty in The Way of Water, and he does the same thing to him here.

    A different fate awaits the ash Na'vi, but it's just as frustrating. Arriving to great fanfare early in the movie, they certainly do make a visual impression, especially their leader Varang, a slithering, slinky, ferocious, absolutely feral force of nature. And that's about all they are. Little of their culture is explored beyond how it negatively contrasts with the 'good' Na'vi, and Varang herself ends up being subservient to Quaritch.

    Spider, the human offspring of Quaritch and adoptee of the Na'vi gets shafted by the same lack of growth. Two momentous things happen to him in this movie that would change an ordinary (i.e. real) man, yet he's still the same 'I'm too cool for school' smart ass all the way through, and none of it is helped by Jack Champion's flat surfer bro performance.

    And let's not forget the biggest misfire of the trilogy: Neytiri. She never was the greatest character, but in the original she had some unique qualities and was memorable as the audience's window into the Na'vi world. Her simple purpose fulfilled, she's been an absolute hole of growth for the last two movies, reduced to moping around the background and standing by her man.

    Then there's the rest of the kids. What was amusing banter in The Way of Water is dull here because it's exactly the same. Lo'ak is still the son everybody shits on undeservedly, exactly like the Way of Water. Kiri is still the exact same hippie new age character she was in The Way of Water, although I suppose she finds out a bit more about her abilities. Sigourney Weaver's mature voice coming out of her is starting to get weird though.

    And so on and so forth. Cameron even brings back Giovanni Ribisi and Toruk the flying dragon, and then gives them nothing to do after the 'hey, remember me from Avatar 1' side wink to the camera..

    It's all so frustrating, especially going on number three of the same. Cameron gave us Jack and Rose, Sarah Connor and Reese, Ripley and Newt, Bud and Lindsey, even Lenny and Mace. He can write good characters that learn, grow and feel authentic. But for whatever reason, he quit trying after the first Avatar. He hasn't reached 'zero f**ks to give' George Lucas levels yet, but he's a long way down from the peak, and it's really dragging the series down. Pandora is still beyond gorgeous to see on the big screen, and it goes without saying that the VFX work here is virtually perfect, with only minor nitpicks if you really go looking for them. But it's getting boring. The wonder and potential of this world is being squandered on a lazy plot with neutered characters that's slowly gone in a circle over nine hours of screen time (so far). The breathtaking visuals and soaring music aren't cutting it anymore.

    At least we'll always have Varang sending Quaritch on an LSD trip by blowing dust up his nose and his amusingly nonchalant reaction. That was probably the highlight of the movie. I'd watch a series with those two in it.
    Last edited by Jon Dent; 12-29-2025, 11:42 AM.
  • Mike Blakesley
    Film God
    • Jan 2020
    • 2021
    • Forsyth MT

    #2
    I haven't had a chance to watch this movie yet but it's already driving me crazy with the overlong fight scenes and the yelling and screaming during them.

    I miss the days when most of the people would come out of movies saying things like "I loved that!" or "Great show...What's coming next week?" or "Best movie I've seen in a while!"

    During the 10 days of this show so far, the most common statements have been:

    1. That was really long
    2. It was just like the last one

    There have been quite a few positive comments but they are far outnumbered by the three above. We also have a couple of Indian reservations near here and we've had quite a number of Native Americans at the movie. I think they are reacting positively to it.

    We've had a few walkouts, mostly people who say they're just tired of watching it.

    Surprisingly, there have still been zero mentions of 3-D.

    A friend of mine who came to the movie said "These movies don't really stick with you -- I have never re-watched any of them." I guess I'd say that about a lot of the movies we've had over the past few years, especially the sequels. We've had a few uber-fans who have gushed about how amazing it is, but they seem to be in the minority.

    I do like the song by Miley Cyrus ("We Dream As One") which plays over the end credits.

    It's doing great business so that makes it a winner in my book, but I will not be unhappy to usher it out the door at the end of next week, just due the length of it.

    Comment

    • Jon Dent
      Pro Film Handler
      • Jan 2021
      • 420
      • Thief River Falls, MN USA

      #3
      I've rewatched parts of the first one (never made it through the whole thing), but it was only because I had a 3D home theater setup at the time. Since I gave that room up to my kids I haven't revisited it at all. Most 3D is pretty bad or at the least forgettable, but Avatar definitely lost something in 2D.

      Nobody's mentioned 3D at our theater either, and the movie hasn't drawn in anywhere near the same crowds as The Way of Water.

      Comment

      • Mike Blakesley
        Film God
        • Jan 2020
        • 2021
        • Forsyth MT

        #4
        Our week 1 numbers were about 15% lower than The Way of Water, but our week 2 is stronger and will end just about equal to week 1. I wonder if the word's getting around that it's NOT in 3D at our place and more people are coming out.

        Comment

        • Marcel Birgelen
          Film God
          • Jan 2020
          • 3619
          • Maastricht, NL

          #5
          This movie really is kind of a paradox, like the dirty movies on the internet... Nobody I know claims to have seen it, nobody is even talking about it, yet it keeps selling tickets...

          Comment

          • Chris Haller
            Pro Film Handler
            • Jan 2020
            • 125
            • Rochester, NY, USA

            #6
            I quite like this movie. So much so that I've seen it 4 times. I guess you could say that I was pretty excited for the return of James Cameron. It does feel a bit like Avatar: Greatest Hits, but what it really is is the first direct sequel in the Avatar franchise, and also the first movie where it doesn't spend the middle act exploring a new part of Pandora. Because of this, it defies franchise expectations: in Avatar you were shown the forests of Pandora. In The Way of Water you explore the oceans of Pandora. In Fire and Ash someone else does the exploring, while we stick with the Sully family as they struggle with the fallout of the big death at the end of the previous film. They shout, argue, get chased get into all sorts of trouble, and get into a big battle that echoes shades of the previous two movies with shifts and variations to keep it fresh. The big bad guy of the franchise falls in with the matriarch of the fire people, Varaang. He goes only his own trip of sorts, with a little sex appeal tossed in. Its fun, but we don't see much of it.

            If the slower pace of the first two wasn't for you, this one moves faster and stacks enough slices of ham on the sandwich to keep everyone busy with something interesting. The 3D Full Lite 14FL HFR version of the movie is a sight to behold. The atmos track is to die for. Its big screen cinema at its finest. But it isn't exactly.....new. Its just more of the world of Avatar 2. I'm all in. Here's to the inevitable Avatar 4.

            Comment

            • Mike Blakesley
              Film God
              • Jan 2020
              • 2021
              • Forsyth MT

              #7
              I read somewhere that Disney was holding off on greenlighting the 4th movie until after this one came out, but since it's nearing a billion dollars in tickets, I'm guessing 4 will be a go.

              Comment

              • Jon Dent
                Pro Film Handler
                • Jan 2021
                • 420
                • Thief River Falls, MN USA

                #8
                Originally posted by Mike Blakesley
                I read somewhere that Disney was holding off on greenlighting the 4th movie until after this one came out, but since it's nearing a billion dollars in tickets, I'm guessing 4 will be a go.
                And 5. Cameron was going to film them back to back just like 2 and 3. I really hope he steps up his writing game. Pandora is such a rich world to explore and the Sully family drama is played out.

                Comment

                • Jon Dent
                  Pro Film Handler
                  • Jan 2021
                  • 420
                  • Thief River Falls, MN USA

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Marcel Birgelen
                  This movie really is kind of a paradox, like the dirty movies on the internet... Nobody I know claims to have seen it, nobody is even talking about it, yet it keeps selling tickets...
                  Must be the same audience that's keeping "The Simpsons" on the air.

                  Comment

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