Covid restrictions over (for us)

[Martin McCaffery]

with 2+2=4 type facts.

Well, in base 10

[Leo Enticknap]

They'll understand that facts aren't subjective...

When misused (either through ignorance or intent), they can have the effect of being subjective. To extend my last example, "Hydroxychloroquine can mitigate the symptoms of C19" is a fact. However, that it only can when taken immediately symptoms appear, and if the patient had a healthy level of vitamin D in their system before infection, are also believed to be facts. Presenting one fact without the others gets us into murky territory. We're not dealing with 2+2=4 type facts. The help that Hydroxy can potentially offer is not a reason why someone who weighs 300lb, has type 2 diabetes and several other chronic conditions, and subsists on a diet of burgers and fries, can reject the vax, refuse to wear a mask, and spend every evening in a jam-packed bar, in the expectation that if he gets covid, he can just pop a couple of Hydroxy pills and that's that.

The inability to understand that it isn't as simple as "facts are facts" is symptomatic of both the public education problem to which you refer, and, sadly, that the political class exploits it to their own ends. Then, when those on the receiving end find themselves unable to cope with the complexity of the issue they're faced with, they turn to characters like David Icke...

[Marcel Birgelen]

The last half decade have been a perfect example of why the government can't be trusted, no matter what party they associate with. But politics has never been about honesty.

The problem here is clearly education, or the lack of it.

What you see here is a perfect example of what you get when you create a bunch of uneducated zombies, unable to perform some simple logic for themselves. They cluster like lemmings around the likes of themselves and the echo chambers where those conspiracy theories are born and amplified. This isn't just an American problem, many countries have neglected to educate entire generations by now and they're slowly starting to reap the "benefits", but the U.S.A. is clearly on the forefront of this scary development.

If you teach people some basic logic skills, they'll be able to filter much of the noise. They'll be able to deduce themselves what's plausible and what's not. They'll understand that REAL science is based on reproducible results and not just some faint believes. They'll understand that facts aren't subjective and alternative facts are just lies.

[Leo Enticknap]

Why do so many people feel our own government is not to be believed, or trusted? Our leaders do not see themselves as part of the problem., they see it as only the citizen as the problem for questions what they are being told. The way to silence the crazy claims is with real science and facts which have been slow at being presented to the people.

The problem is that you can pick and choose from the science and facts to craft your argument, which politicians of both colors have been doing with a vengeance. One of the reasons the political establishment is mistrusted so much is that they urge us to "follow the science," when what they actually mean is, "do what I tell you, and don't argue!" For example, there is significant evidence that under certain, specific circumstances (the main one being starting to take the stuff as soon as possible after symptoms present), hydroxycloroquine can be effective in mitigating covid symptoms. This had led one political faction to claim that it is a miracle cure. If you wait until you're seriously ill with breathing difficulties, though, you might as well have a stiff Scotch instead (at least it'll make you feel better in the short term!). This is seized upon by the other political faction to claim that it is useless snake oil. "The science" is actually a lot more complicated and a lot less clear cut, and is seized on, piecemeal and often out of context, by politicians trying to advance their agendas. And as Bobby points out, the media (both mainstream and fringe) helps that process along.

Which makes is sad, but hardly surprising, that such a large proportion of the population trusts David Icke more than their elected representatives.

[Mitchell Dvoskin]

There is a Flat Earth Society just in case you have gotten the crazy notion that the world is round .

Flat Earth Society

I came across some of these Flat Earth wackos a few years ago, they were giving out flyers on the boardwalk in Point Pleasant New Jersey.


4BFD4097-56A7-4471-8E94-2A70B5E52FB1.jpeg

[Mark Lane]

I was a field investigator for MUFON long enough to know the government doesn’t always tells us the truth or at least not all the truth.

When someone is presented with two sides of a situation and the American citizen finds a story that says if they take the vaccine they will become magnetic and will stick to the refrigerator to be more believable than that their government is tell them, it is a problem. Why do so many people feel our own government is not to be believed, or trusted? Our leaders do not see themselves as part of the problem., they see it as only the citizen as the problem for questions what they are being told.
The way to silence the crazy claims is with real science and facts which have been slow at being presented to the people.

If the internet was around when the world was believed to be flat, we would still believe the earth was flat because any opposing view points would have been removed as being misinformation that would lead to people getting hurt.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Every town used to have the crazy old lady walking around downtown yelling at the kids or whatever. They were always there but they were more-or-less on their own.

The Internet has allowed them to find each other, which reinforces their beliefs, gives them a sense of belonging similar to churches, and gives them a way to proselytize and add new recruits.

Listening to someone yelling about space aliens on the radio or tv is one thing, but it's a lot more engaging when you can reach for your phone or computer and actually have a two-way conversation (and maybe even collect "likes").

Frank, You left out the Isreali Space Based Lasers that some orange clown claimed was starting all the forest fires in the world...

[Frank Cox]

Every town used to have the crazy old lady walking around downtown yelling at the kids or whatever. They were always there but they were more-or-less on their own.

The Internet has allowed them to find each other, which reinforces their beliefs, gives them a sense of belonging similar to churches, and gives them a way to proselytize and add new recruits.

Listening to someone yelling about space aliens on the radio or tv is one thing, but it's a lot more engaging when you can reach for your phone or computer and actually have a two-way conversation (and maybe even collect "likes").

[Bobby Henderson]

I'm getting too political here, but I guess the main problem of the U.S. right now is that complete ignorance is seen as some kind of virtue by large parts of the population.

That pretty much sums up the situation. We now have this twisted trend in American culture where people who have actual, professional expertise in a field such as science, medicine or engineering are viewed with contempt. The formal education, training and experience of these actual qualified experts is offset by amateur dumb-ass fake experts. Hell, I deal with it to some extent in my day job. Some guy acquires a couple graphics applications and then thinks he's on my level of expertise.

What makes the situation more sinister is America's perverted media industry. Various outlets on cable TV and online cater to people in search for alternate versions of the truth. They're using fear, anger and outrage to attract viewers. When they get more viewers they get more ad dollars. It's all about money. These WHORES have no problem undermining this nation's political process or even worsening a pandemic that gets more people killed. They only care about making more money. And if the bile they're broadcasting helps make matters even worse, great! They'll double down on the lines of bullshit they're spewing and stoke the feelings of fear, anger and outrage even more in their viewers. They'll make even more money.

It's one thing if a friend, acquaintance or family member is spouting ignorance and contempt against experts online or even in person. It's easy to tune out that nonsense and it travels only so far. I think it's another thing entirely when some asshole has a mass media platform to hit a much larger audience with his bullshit. The media guy knows what he is doing. And he's doing it for the ad money. Like a whore.

[Marcel Birgelen]

There's a bunch of idiot Americans who just flatly cannot weigh one risk versus another. All they know is they're just not going to get vaccinated, especially if anyone tells them to do so. Of the anti-vax folks who can weigh risks they think the pandemic is a hoax and the virus is no worse than the flu. They stay stridently hardcore in those beliefs the SARS-CoV-2 virus is of no concern. No need to get vaccinated for a fake plan-demic.

I'm getting too political here, but I guess the main problem of the U.S. right now is that complete ignorance is seen as some kind of virtue by large parts of the population. It's hasn't been about "left" or "right" for years now, it has been about choosing between "still some common sense left somewhere" and "batshit crazy" for the better part of the last five years now.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." is no longer a funny meme, it has become a way of life for the uninformed and ignorant. Facts be damned, we've got Alternative Facts now.

What worries me is that this "virtue of ignorance" is like a pandemic in its own, it's highly infectious and it has been spreading all over the world for quite a while now...

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

This new outbreak is for sure going to be the survival of the vaccinated...

[Bobby Henderson]

Texas and Florida are making up most of those cases since they are highly populated states (particularly Texas). Arkansas is a pretty bad hot spot since the booming Northwest Arkansas region is right next door to what is currently the nation's worst Delta outbreak in SW Missouri.

Oklahoma isn't making as many headlines simply because the state has only about 1/8 the population of Texas. COVID-19 rates are on the rise though. Here in Comanche County we were down to as little as 50 known active cases in May. Now we have over 250 known active cases, many of which are Delta. That variant has been creeping in from the big outbreak in Missouri. State-wide Oklahoma is back to case number levels not seen since April and we're going farther and farther backwards. Just about all the people in Oklahoma who wanted to get vaccinated have been vaccinated already. Everyone seems hell-bent on finding out the hard way about this virus. I would be perfectly fine with that. Let them all become Darwin Awards Winners. But the selfish assholes aren't going to keep the infection to themselves. They'll be sure to spread it to people who can't get vaccinated, such as kids under age 12. Not every child is invincible to this virus.

[Mark Gulbrandsen]

Bobby, so far those monitoring figures show that 46% of the new cases are from just three States. Texas, Florida, and Arkansas... Why Class Action lawsuits have not been filed by the general populous against those three Governors is beyond me...

[Bobby Henderson]

Yeah sure, but technology can't foresee the future yet. With those emergency use authorizations for those vaccines, we're taking a calculated risk, because we have models that show us what likely happens when we do nothing and that scenario will most likely be much worse than the potential long-term side effects of the vaccines.

I'm personally infinitely far less worried about a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine that hasn't had final FDA approval than I am about getting infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus again. I've already had it once. I know it's possible to get infected again. That's why I didn't fart around wasting time before getting vaccinated at the earliest opportunity.

There's a bunch of idiot Americans who just flatly cannot weigh one risk versus another. All they know is they're just not going to get vaccinated, especially if anyone tells them to do so. Of the anti-vax folks who can weigh risks they think the pandemic is a hoax and the virus is no worse than the flu. They stay stridently hardcore in those beliefs the SARS-CoV-2 virus is of no concern. No need to get vaccinated for a fake plan-demic.

Plenty of medical professionals are encountering these anti-vax, pandemic deniers in the hospital. It's either they or someone they care about is infected and reeling from a serious case of COVID-19. Sometimes those people admit it's not a hoax afterall. Many other times they don't and deny they or their loved ones had COVID-19. There are people dying of the stuff yet denying they were ever infected. It's just the flu.

With the current pace of vaccinations around the globe, we're due to see some new variants. And wile the "breakthru cases" I've witnessed may just be an unlucky coincidence, and even though none of them were real serious cases, it triggers the suspicion in me that those "Gen 1 vaccines" may not be as effective against current variants as we currently think. And I'm not holding any Pfizer stock and I dislike big-pharma probably as much as anybody else, but I think that's why a booster shot, which is optimized to be effective against newer variations, may not be such a bad idea.

Scores of scientists and medical professionals are monitoring the situation 24/7. It's not like they're leaving anything to chance. Just this week one study was released suggesting the Johnson & Johnson vaccine may be less effective on the Delta variant compared to other SARS-CoV-2 variants. But the study was not peer reviewed. So a whole lot of people are checking and double-checking everything.

Compare that to the armchair quarterbacks, keyboard warriors and other fake scientists throwing around their "expert" opinions on Facebook (or in the halls of the US Congress). If I end up needing to get a booster shot for the Pfizer/Bio-N-Tech vaccine I'm not going to throw a fit about it. But I'll wait for some actual qualified professionals to deliver that recommendation.