ICMP - X with Dolby CP950A - silence when switching from 5.1 to Atmos CPL

[Marco Giustini]

Again, I am no developer here but... you can SEE a green light on the CP once Atmos is playing and yet the software is playing silence 3 seconds before that happens?

Wouldn't it be a matter of adding a

while Atmos_Status_LED != "green":
    time.sleep(POLL_INTERVAL)
    Atmos_Status_LED = read_status_led() # re-read the actual state
atmos_audio_enabled()

I am just joking but I'm a bit puzzled that the status LED knows when it's time to play Atmos but something in the background does not and you end up with silence in the auditorium.

Don't Barco have their own sound to sell? And I believe I read something about some "conversations" about HDR between the two players which might make developing together a bit difficult?

[Marcel Birgelen]

I know too little about the implementation of all the little back and forth between server and Atmos processor, but I can imagine that you could introduce a deadlock with your little while loop: Because the timecode isn't progressing, there is no Atmos playing.

Barco once invested a pretty decent amount of money into cinema sound, buying up companies and promoting Aura 3D for a while. Their latest decoder, the APX AuroMax is a pretty rare beast and already more than 7 years old. I guess they sold a bunch of those to Kinepolis, after they struck a deal to upgrade their aging fleet of S1 and early S2 projectors, but otherwise I don't know anybody using them. I guess they could integrate IAB sound rendering on the ICMP-X and I'm still wondering why they didn't do so, just like the IMS3000. It would be a far easier sell than selling some unknown audio processor as separate device.

[Marco Giustini]

mine was a simplistic example of course, I don't pretend that to be a viable solution. But something feels wrong here if there is a status light which seems to be able to precisely mark when Atmos is actually playing but the user is reporting a 3 seconds gap with the sound in the auditorium!

[Elia Orselli]

Barco once invested a pretty decent amount of money into cinema sound, buying up companies and promoting Aura 3D for a while. Their latest decoder, the APX AuroMax is a pretty rare beast and already more than 7 years old. I guess they sold a bunch of those to Kinepolis, after they struck a deal to upgrade their aging fleet of S1 and early S2 projectors, but otherwise I don't know anybody using them. I guess they could integrate IAB sound rendering on the ICMP-X and I'm still wondering why they didn't do so, just like the IMS3000. It would be a far easier sell than selling some unknown audio processor as separate device.

IAB rendering will be integrated into ICMP-XS/mFusion soon (maybe before the end of the year), while the 5.1/7.1 audio processing is already available

[Marcel Birgelen]

Interesting development, but a bit unfortunate they're going to skip the ICMP-X with this offer.

mine was a simplistic example of course, I don't pretend that to be a viable solution. But something feels wrong here if there is a status light which seems to be able to precisely mark when Atmos is actually playing but the user is reporting a 3 seconds gap with the sound in the auditorium!

If you look at the entire Rube Goldberg machine called Atmos / IAB, I can tell you, a lot of stuff feels wrong and overly complex.

[Steve Guttag]

The ICMP-X is definitely the step-child now for Barco. Its sole existence is for S2 projectors. I'm more shocked that they don't already have the ICMP-XS, S2-compatible. They haven't said if it ever will be but it wouldn't surprise me that when they run out of ICMP-X, that they offer the a means to retrofit the XS into them.

I've avoided using server+ CP950A for Atmos in favor of the IMS3000. When using the IMS3000, you just need the 1-key and there aren't any IAB shenanigans with it. While I've had my fill of IMS3000 quirks, Atmos rendering hasn't been one of them. That part just works.

[Marco Giustini]

I'm still dealing with those quirks, once I've experienced them all, I'll let you know! ?

[Leo Enticknap]

The ICMP-X is definitely the step-child now for Barco. Its sole existence is for S2 projectors.

There are thousands of them currently sitting in Series 4 projectors. My worry is that as they die (and thanks to end users neglecting to do battery replacements, this happens all the time), Barco will want to replace them with XSes; and as we saw in the online training presentation, upgrading from an X to an XS is a nontrivial process, one that also makes major changes to the projector's web UI (from separate UIs for the projector and server side to a single integrated one), changes that will have implications for end user training, too. This upgrade will be way more time consuming and disruptive than changing an ICP to an ICP-D in a Series 2.

I would have thought that unless something happens whereby Barco can no longer re-cert returned ICMP-Xs that are in FIPS lock, they will have enough Xs available to support Series 2 projectors for as long as a significant number of them remain in use. I remember in the training presentation the instructor saying that a future software update that enables the XS to work in Series 2 projectors may or may not happen. My guess would be that it won't unless it has to.

As for Atmos, we very rarely install fully tricked out IMS3000s, because the only audio output is digital, meaning that if the amplifiers won't take Dolbyized AES67 directly, extra hardware is needed (e.g. a Dolby DAC or a Q-Sys core), the cost of which negates any saving made by not having a separate server and audio processor. There are also no analog inputs. The ICMP-XS having USB audio inputs is potentially useful, but again, the only output being network digital audio imposes the need for extra hardware in most installations.

[Harold Hallikainen]

If you're running IAB, it seems that you will always have networked audio of some sort. There is no other way to get that many audio channels out of the box economically. I like the idea of internal IAB rendering as opposed to an external processor handling it. The complexity of getting the external box fetching the content, decrypting it (dealing with more keys and security boundaries), forensic marking, synchronization, etc. is so much more than just doing it in the server where everything else is being dealt with. As I recall, USL was the first to do internal rendering, but it was limited to 16 audio channels out since there was no network audio, and the AES3 outputs were used.

MANY years ago, I was at an ISDCF plugfest. I asked a Dolby guy if they were going to implement ST430-14 sync ( https://pub.smpte.org/doc/st430-14/20211228-pub/ ). He said it was not necessary since future products would move to internal rendering.

[Steve Guttag]

...

As for Atmos, we very rarely install fully tricked out IMS3000s, because the only audio output is digital, meaning that if the amplifiers won't take Dolbyized AES67 directly, extra hardware is needed (e.g. a Dolby DAC or a Q-Sys core), the cost of which negates any saving made by not having a separate server and audio processor. There are also no analog inputs. The ICMP-XS having USB audio inputs is potentially useful, but again, the only output being network digital audio imposes the need for extra hardware in most installations.

All of the ATMOS systems I've put in (designed by us, not as a hired gun) are IMS3000s and all (including as a hired gun) had Q-SYS and they all have DCIO-H in the system. The ATMOS system is so expensive on its own (50+ speakers, amplifier channels...etc.) the incremental cost of a DCIO is trival considering it gives one fully redundancy. We also have a spare Center amplifier in the system too. It takes a lot to take of our our ATMOS theatres down. While it may be that one drops out of Atmos (hasn't happened yet), that theatre shouldn't go down due to the audio.

Conversely, with a CP950A + conventional server, you've set yourself up for extra key headaches and the whole Cine-Canvas type BS where two boxes have to exchange stuff with each other, just so or it all falls apart. However, in the IMS3000, the Atmos part, always works. One key...everything works. It is, inherently, more reliable. And, it is safe to presume, the Atmos rooms are going to be on the large side of any complex...so you don't want to dump those rooms.

As for the Barco's ICMP-X vs ICMP-XS...I put forth Dolby's simple upgrade from the CP750 to the CP950...where no cable pinouts are the same and with a parting spit in your face...swap sides for each connector, including the power cord. Those that like server GPIO...will get a rude awakening on the ICMP-XS as half of those are gone. Being the Eprad eCNA/Q-SYS sorta guy, I don't don't use those sorts of GPIO but for those that do...surprise!

My Econo-Atmos systems are called "7.1" as that saves the most and may indeed use a CP950 (or Q-SYS).