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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Marking Reel Changes (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Marking Reel Changes
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-17-2000 07:10 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe:

I agree that a colored bar across the frameline that shows on the screen is "tacky". If you reread my post, my suggestion was for tape with a 0.10 inch colored stripe across the TAPE, so it could carefully be placed over the perforations on the side opposite the Dolby Digital soundtrack --- the colored stripe would NOT cover any soundtrack, and would NOT intrude into the picture area.

But the BEST idea in this discussion is to temporarily mark the shipping reel to show how full it was, so that on breakdown onto the same reel, you'll know when the splice is coming. That way, you don't need to mark the film at all .

The WORST idea is to use white shoepolish, "whiteout", or any other material on the film that will flake, bleed, or get the film dirty.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 11-21-2001 09:20 AM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am in the UK and since film is shipped on cores the idea of marking shipping reels is not possible. Our policy is to mark a ring around each reel change with white china marker. The problem is that is does leave the inside of the projector a bit messy. Anyone have better suggestions.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-21-2001 10:18 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael:

I would also discourage using China Marker (or crayon) to mark the print. Not only does it leave debris in the projector (as you note), but some of that same debris gets stuck in the image and soundtrack areas of the print --- definitely not "film done right".

For film on a core, simply measure and record the diameter of each reel as received. When respooling onto the cores, look for the splice when the roll approaches that diameter. If you use flanges (split reels) to handle film on cores, mark the calibrations of roll length directly on the flange, which will be valid as long as the film type and core diameter are constant.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Steve Anderson
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 168
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 11-21-2001 12:37 PM      Profile for Steve Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Steve Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To find the splice when breaking down a print I also use the gloved finger method that Randy referred to. I also took my mini mag-light and attached it to a small goose neck so that I can shoot a small beam of light just across the platter of film so that I can see where each reel of film ends.

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Les Brock
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Basingstoke, Hamshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2001


 - posted 11-21-2001 01:22 PM      Profile for Les Brock   Author's Homepage   Email Les Brock   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of the easiest and Digital soundtrack friendly ways of marking reel change splices is to use an Ultraviolet pen marker down the edges of the film.

The marker is invisible to SDDS / SRD tracks.

On the breakdown of the print a hand held UV ( Blacklight ) is used and the splice / end of reel marks can be clearly seen.

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 11-21-2001 07:03 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great idea!! How much do those pens and a small portable blacklight cost? I guarantee you my GM will not spend too much money on it. I probablly wouldn't either, cause it's not "necessary," but if it's not expensive, I'd like to try it.

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John Brookshire
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Registered: Oct 2001


 - posted 11-21-2001 07:06 PM      Profile for John Brookshire   Email John Brookshire   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've found that if you use zebra tape, if you position it just right, it covers neither image nor soundtrack, and sits up above the film very nicely - roughly a 1/16 of an inch - marks the reel changes perfectly, when I get my camera I'll take a pic so you can see.

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Andy Muirhead
Master Film Handler

Posts: 323
From: Galashiels, Scotland
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 11-21-2001 07:55 PM      Profile for Andy Muirhead   Email Andy Muirhead   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael, an absolutely terrible idea, who taught you that? Because you work(!) at a student cinema, the chances are you are handling 2nd, 3rd run prints. If you want to mark your splices for easy breakdown, go to WH Smiths or whatever and get a pack of those self adhesive dots. When your making-up place a dot over the edge of the splice (and do it before you tape your splice), but so it doesn't cover the soundtrack area. Basically your just trying to mark the very edge of the film.

If you do that you can find your splices again almost with a blindfold, well not really, but you can spot your splices easy.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-21-2001 09:08 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would encourage everybody who gets film on reels to read the "Building 101" page on the "Tips" section of this site. It shows the best way to mark reel changes without using zebra tape or any external substances (like china marker) on the film. The method is fullproof unless you consistently lose several feet per reel due to damage during a film's run. Just as long as you use tape on the reel to mark how full it is (like the picture shows on the page) then everything will be kick-ass. I really can't stress enough how good this method is.

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Les Brock
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Basingstoke, Hamshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2001


 - posted 11-22-2001 08:21 AM      Profile for Les Brock   Author's Homepage   Email Les Brock   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken:

The cost of a pen and UV lamp is around $24 USD or £16 UK Pounds. Both items can be found at Actsecurity. Their website is at www.actsecurity.com

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 11-22-2001 10:57 AM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I might try the dots idea. I just though about the ultra violet idea. Would there be any maybee felt or marker pens that i could use that would show up without a special light. Basically something that would not flake off in the projector.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-22-2001 11:06 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kodak used edge mark there safety stock with a UV material to make it show up in inspection for nitrate stock combined on the same roll back in the 50's
I use the silver coat wide tip by sanford and even the IMAX doesn't flake it off.
I use the Eprad edge marker holder ad none ever drips over the edge

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-22-2001 12:28 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know if I've told this story before, but if I have you are about to suffer through it AGAIN!

At UA Greenwood we used to use silver marking pens to mark the reel changes at buildup. Easy to see on the platter. But we stopped doing this. Why? Well most of the times we would get in many of our prints a week early (sometimes even earlier than that) so that the big boys at the corporate office could watch the prints at home. We would build up the movies onto two or three 7,000 foot reels. All of their home projectors had foil-sensing cue detectors so that they wouldn't have to get up and do the changeover themselves. What happened? You guessed it... the silver marking actually triggered cues.

And yes, if it was a highly anticipated title we would platter it and watch it before it was sent out to the boys (if we had time).


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-22-2001 12:40 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Funny I would love to now what cue detector read them as I have yet to find one that did.
In fact we tried to use silver paint marker to permanently cue a ride film and we couldn't find any sensor other than a Omron LED Cell type that would read it

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-22-2001 02:28 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well MY guess is that Ian (yes, IAN) just put the silver paint on waaaay too sloppily and it seeped across the entire width of the film. OK that is an exaggeration. Perhaps Ian will come and tell us what cue readers they were using. Ian was the one who told me that it was cuing their projectors (or someone's projectors).

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