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Topic: Volume levels in theaters

Erika Hellgren
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 168
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-05-1999 04:45 PM

In responce to Rick's DTS question, yes, you'd think the levels would carry over no matter what auditorium you move them to, provided nothing has been touched, but after checking db levels everytime we move our units, that's proven not to be true. The levels are always way off, mostly because of auditorium size I'm guessing. If someone else knows the reason for this, please enlighten us.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 09-05-1999 06:07 PM

I must point out my agreement with checking levels when moving a DTS unit. Most theaters are eq'd by more than one engineer in a panic situation to get open. No two meters or pink noise generators are exactly the same. The only solution is for ONE engineer to go around and personally calibrate all the auditoriums with exactly the same equipment and settings. Then, in theory the equipment can be moved around without re-adjusting the levels. But, only if the theater has all the exact same brand and model processors. Far too many theaters nowadays have 3 or more different processors spread throughout the building! For example a CP500 in the big house, CP65s in the large houses, Ultra Stereo in the medium houses and then something else for the small ones! This is poor planning in the design, in my opinion. I'd much rather have, say...all CP65s throughout the building than have a booth filled with "mutt" equipment.

Unfortunately, even if a building had all of one type of processor, I have found DTS levels still need to be tweeked. Granted, in many instances the levels were within a decibel...but that wouldn't be perfect, would it?

Also of interest is a test run of SRD pink noise loop. I have found sometimes the analog and digital does not exactly match up.

They way I see it, theaters should just be built with one of two options here. First, CP500s and SRD built in with a couple of floating DTS units and forget all the other nonsense. SRD is on every print (I'm not counting the SDDS-only "bomb" movies from Sony.) The CP500/SRD combo is extremely affordable and reliable, with a cat 701 penthouse reader. Another good option would be to install all CP65s with DTS in every house and have a couple of floating SRD units. My only beef with the CP65 is when hooked up to a DA20 will result in a the surround channels being too low in comparision with the analog settings.

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Howard Johnson
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Felpham , West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 99

posted 09-06-1999 05:02 PM

I'm glad to see this topic discussed. Many projectionists in England seem to have this thing about the magic "7" on their faders. Everything is run at 7 regardless. I think that you have to check each show in the auditorium (I know this is probably impossible for multis) . The number of people makes a difference as a full house seems to soak up the sound and comedies need more sound so they don't miss the jokes. I tend not to have a fixed sound level but vary it eaxh time. The mixing could be better on films as often to strive for "realism" they have the background noises drowning the dialogue and you are straining to hear what is being said. I worked at Pinewood Studios in the 60s and every bit of speech was re-recorded in the post-sync theatre where I worked.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 09-07-1999 08:22 PM

I don't agree with the digital tracks pumping more volume than the analog tracks in the first post. 85db is 85db. But Brad is right. If certain frequencies are not EQ'd properly, it will SEEM louder and you will get a huge headache. This has happened to me. Digital sound is not the enemy. It just needs more attention to be reproduced properly. Digital sound is great!

I sense that the reason some people do not like digital sound is because they fear change. Change happens and it can suck. I know people who hate xenon bulbs and prefer carbon arcs. If they want to get lung cancer, then they can have their carbon arcs. If a theatre that you visit sounds "too loud", ask the management for the district managers phone number and call them. Don't tell them that the sound is too loud. Tell them it sounds really really bad and caused you some physical grief. It is obviously not set up correctly, or maybe they do not have the proper equipment to do so (amps, speakers, etc). Give them a few weeks and if they have not fixed the problem, do not visit that theatre ever again!

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System Notices
Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi

Posts: 215

Registered: Apr 2004

posted 12-31-2004 02:36 AM

It has been 1941 days since the last post.

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Eric Webb
Film Handler

Posts: 40
From: Atlanta GA
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 12-31-2004 02:36 AM

at the theater i work at if the customers complain that its too loud we would turn it down abit

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 12-31-2004 12:25 PM

A true sign of a badly-run theater is if they turn down the sound right away if one person complains it's too loud (unless of course they are the ONLY person in the theater.) Some people I've worked with don't understand the concept that the 200 other people in the theater could be enjoying the sound, and you don't want to ruin it for them just because one of them thinks it's too loud.
Even one complaint does warrant going in and checking the sound however, but I've never worked with anyone who actually did that and I bet people at most theaters don't.

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Robert E. Allen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1078
From: Checotah, Oklahoma
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 12-31-2004 12:47 PM

I have often suspected that the unnecessarily loud levels in auditoriums are for young audiophiles who plan on being hearing impared by the time they are 30.

In our house we check the sound levers (both managers and ushers) up to three times per show and make any adjustments necessary (due to crowd or other factors). Except for those mentioned above the blaring sound is a total distraction and I won't allow it on my watch.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-31-2004 12:58 PM

One person's "blaring sound" is another person's sweet music. My rule of thumb, as it should be everywhere, is to set the sound to where the dialogue sounds "normal" and let the rest of it take care of itself. After all, some parts of movies are SUPPOSED to be loud. I can't remember the last time we had a complaint about the volume being too loud OR too soft, so we must be doing something right! [Smile]

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 12-31-2004 12:59 PM

The only time the volume should really be jacked with past basic comfortable dialogue is when you have an audience that is primarily old or young. Get an young crowd with an action movie and if you don't blast it, they won't return to patronize your theater in the future. Get an old crowd and the volume had better be so quiet that the customers have to be leaning toward the screen in order to decipher the dialogue. (Yes I am exaggerating to an extreme for comedic effect.)

Not an old vs. young thing...this is just how it is. Just because the manager is at one end of the age range or another doesn't mean that he/she doesn't have to understand this basic fact. For example if Robert always runs his volume low, he will lose a major chunk of his younger customers as time goes on, just like a 20-something manager will lose his older customers if he keeps blaring Merchant Ivory films.

Mike hit this right on the head anyway. You adjust so that the DIALOGUE sounds comfortable. If the rest is too loud or too soft to you, don't touch it.

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Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 12-31-2004 02:25 PM

...unless of course you have sound bleeding into other theaters, in which case you may have to adjust to make the loudest sounds not so loud. yes, i know that's an unfortunate situation, but very common.

carl

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 12-31-2004 02:39 PM

Hark! So returns the compression debate...

--jhawk

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-01-2005 12:23 PM

So can someone explain to me why most older (1930s and 1940s) films seem to have tracks where music is substantially louder than the dialogue? If one turns the sound up enough so that the dialogue is "normal," the music is often too loud. I know that there is something to be said for the fact that older mixes were intended to be played back on typical theatre sound systems of that time and don't always sound their best on modern systems, but I've shown many of these films in older theatres which are still using Voice of the Theatre speakers from the 1950s, though usually with modern preamps and amplifiers. Is there really all that much difference between a 1940s RCA system and a 1980s Kelmar system, when using similar speakers?

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 01-01-2005 04:07 PM

I've always tended to play older movies at home with a lower volume than newer ones.
Agreed that the good rule of thumb in a theater is to check during a dialogue scene, you shouldn't have to strain to hear what they're saying but it also shouldn't sound like they're shouting at you. There was one movie I turned down because Melanie Griffith's voice was extremely painful to listen to!

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 01-01-2005 05:11 PM

Not directly related perhaps but I remember when I lived in the dorm at school and we had a weekly 16mm feature film that circulated through each weekend. We had a Bell & Howell projector (1574 I think...manual thread w/halogen bulb) and when I got involved we started borrowing a 2nd machine from the dorm across the street so we could run with changeovers using a homemade contraption. The borrowed machine was also a B&H, a slot load, and probably of not hugely different vintage. Yet I recall distinctly that with that machine, which you would think would have had a similar amplifier, we'd invariably be bringing up volume on dialog and bringing it down on music & effects. I presume a 16mm optical track is probably somewhat compressed but whatever decompression was built into that machine's amp overdid it by a large degree. (The films were mostly recent stuff.)

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