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Author Topic: Matting
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-13-2000 02:07 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Personally, I think all flat films should be hard matted to 1.66 with CLEAR matting between frames with black wording "You are watching a movie being presented by an incompetent projectionist. Please notify the manager immediately for 10 free passes and all the concessions you can eat."

Think that might get those flicks in frame?

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Christos Mitsakis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 242
From: Ag.Paraskevi, ATHENS, GREECE
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 02-13-2000 03:59 AM      Profile for Christos Mitsakis   Email Christos Mitsakis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What about cinemas with large 1.33:1 screens?
Two of the "Elite" cinemas here in Athens are projecting "full frame" just to cover the entire screen and impress the audinence. When it comes to anamorphic...well its like you are viewing a leterbox LD or DVD presentation.
Totally unacceptable.
I remember seeing Saving pvt. Ryan in one of them. The live footage was filmed full frame, and the scenes where special effects are added were hard matted on film. The projected image was constantly shifting between 1.33:1 and 1.85:1. VERY distracting.

Another issue of correct framing.

Subtitles are burned in beetwen the lower third and fourth perforations of the frame. Well in anamorhic projection there is no problem. But in 1.85 (ie most US releases) you have to reframe a little higher so the second line of the subtittles is clear for the audience. With this compromise you loose a bit of the top and you see the botom hard matte or unexpected things as traveling rails etc.
I always put the subtittles "touching" the lower point of the screen but in many cases you have to be a liitle "up" since that second line is cut in half by the end of the screen. :-(

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Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-14-2000 02:33 AM      Profile for Michael Cunningham   Email Michael Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
On the subject of aperture ratios, what is the correct ratio for anamorphic "scope" prints? I was taught, many years ago, that it was 2.35:1. But on a lot of newer prints, the studio has been asking for 2.39:1. Granted, there isn't that much difference, but it seems kind of strange. Any thoughts?

-Mike

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-14-2000 09:04 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The current correct ratio for 'scope is 2.39. It has changed over the years, but was 2.35 from (I think) about 1965 to 1985, so there are still people and documentation that say or print that.

The offical size is now 0.825" x 0.690" which (2X) comes to 2.39130.......

I think someone did a "SMPTE standard" history of it, showing what sizes 'scope has been over the last 50 years, but I can't remember where it was. More dead brain cells....

I'm guessing, but I wonder if 2.39 came into use after Lucas did his TAP survey in 1983 for "Empire." (If you never heard if this..) Just before "Empire" was released, Lucas created the TAP program to make sure just about every theater running that film was techinally up to par. For that one film, TAP sent a guy to your theater to not only check it out, but to file plates, push projectors, EQ sound.. whatever it took to get the best sound and picture out of your existing equipment. They also recorded data like screen height, width, and brightness, throw, lens sizes, aperture openings, projector angle, amp wattages, processor type, etc. There were even some reports that (for 70mm runs) if they found a bad speaker or something else wrong, it had to be fixed. If your theater didn't fix it, "NO 70 FOR YOU!"

Anyway, I was talking to a guy at TAP shortly after, and asked him if there was anything interesting that came out of the data they collected. He said a few things, but one thing was how just about every theater cropped the image left/right. A few years after that, the offical 'scope size went from 0.825" x 0.700" to what it is now.

I asked if Lucas was going to release all the data they took. I, personally, would find it would be very interesting to see. But the fellow said they would not be releasing it.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-14-2000 10:12 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John:

Some time ago, I provided a chronology of the changes to the projected image area for the anamorphic "scope" format to Martin Hart, Curator of the on-line "American WideScreen Museum". Here is a link to the data:
http://www.simplecom.net/widefilm/widescreen/apertures.htm

The current area is documented in standard ANSI/SMPTE 195 "Motion-Picture Prints --- Projectable Image Area": 0.825 X 0.690 inches (20.96 X 17.53 mm).

In 1993, the image width was reduced from 0.838 to 0.825 inches to be consistent with the non-anamorphic "Style A" image width, and to reduce the risk of seeing the DTS time code at the left hand edge. The image height was reduced from 0.715 to 0.700 to 0.690 inches to reduce the visibility ("flash") of splices in the negative if the film was conformed as a single roll for printing.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-14-2000 02:51 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

Not "all" nude scenes are "covered up". I recall seeing the flick "Powder" at a theater where it was framed high. I even complained twice during the trailers to the management about it.

Needless to say, towards the end there is a scene where some bullies rip Powder's clothes off and guess what was right there waving to the audience?

The manager got a nice bitch after the film was over out by a mother who had brought her kids to this PG film for having such nudity in it. He could've avoided that if he had've just framed the thing during the trailers like I asked.

Another such instance happened on the video transfer of "Some Girls". Patrick Dempsey had a nude scene and the video transfer was done full frame. I think he prosecuted the company for it. That'll teach them actors to participate in non-scope movies! Long live scope!!!



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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-15-2000 07:33 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gee, wouldn't it be really funny if somebody would print a "second" movie between the frames of a flat film? You could be watching Hunchback of Notre Dame(Animated) and with a twist of the framing knob you'd be watching Striptease!!! Heck! Make the DTS track so that both sets of discs would play on the same film! Only thing is the "second" movie would be a little less than a whole frame. STILL, it's a funny, (but silly) thought!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-17-2000 08:09 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There actually was once a proposal for a 35mm print format that printed 2-perf high frames "heads-to-tails", and then interleaved another set "tails to heads", with appropriate analog soundtracks on each side of the print. So the roll was projected in a normal 4-perf pulldown projector, first in one direction (heads-to-tails) and then the other (tails-to-heads) without rewinding. I recall that the projected image area was only about 0.700 X 0.350 inches. It might have worked as a budget format for reel-to-reel projection with changeovers, but there'd be no real advantage for platter systems. And the image area was barely larger than a 16mm print, so image quality would suffer.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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