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Topic: Pre-changeover cues

Colin Wiseley
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 123
From: Blacksburg, VA
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-24-2000 07:35 PM

Cue marks are useful because you can see them without looking at the projector currently running the film. Depending on the booth layout it would be impossible to see the currently playing reel and in most cases you need to be standing at the next projector to make the changeover. The only thing I could think of is a piece of sensor tape that sets off a bell for the cue marks.

ding 1 - start the motor
ding 2 - hit the changeover button

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Colin Wiseley
Lyric Theatre
Blacksburg, VA
www.thelyric.com

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-24-2000 08:41 PM

I'm not talking about changeovers. I think that has pretty much been covered already. I was referring to the latest reasons for still having cues on the prints. Someone said it helps on breaking down etc. I'm saying, why does it need to be visible on screen? If it's only for breaking down and i.d-ing reel ends, let's put some other markings on the print the patron doesn't have to see.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 02-24-2000 11:32 PM

As I said, I'm in the "keep em' catagory.

While I wouldn't mind having some other kind of mark on reels ends, (to identify the last frame) tyhat means editor or labs have create a method to do it. The regular c/o method is already here. Perhaps a compromise; Instead of 4 frames with a dot, only do two; or make them smaller; or don't fill the dot- just have a light ring.

Now, I don't have facts and figures or anything, but I would agree that running a 4000 ft. reel is rare. Of all the theaters, I bet 90% are running platters. Of the 10% still doing c/o's, I bet most of them have had their magazines removed, and just have arms. Many theaters (in the late 50's and early 60's) put on 6000 ft. magazines for 3D, or to take advantage of carbon arcs that would run an hour. There might be some other reasons to run 4000 ft. reels, but magazine size limitation is not one of them.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-25-2000 02:04 AM

I broke down a print of Angela's Ashes tonight for a fellow theater who's operator was on vacation and WOW was it easy! Since Paramount doesn't use SDDS, every odd numbered reel had blue edges (where the SDDS would've been) and every even numbered reel had clear edges (like in the olden days). FANTASTIC! WONDERFUL! It was SOOOO extraordinarily easy to see the reel changes on the platter and not once was there a need to even grasp the edges of the film during breakdown. I could see it plain as day...even easier than that crappy yellow opaque tape that I hate so much!

I say we eliminate SDDS and start with the odd reel/dark edges and even reel/clear edges pattern! Also, the first frame of each reel should be repeated at the end of the countdown (like Technicolor does with repeating the title and reel number) and the same should hold true for the last frame. Anyone who couldn't break a print down properly under those circumstances should be shot.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 02-25-2000 06:06 AM

I am agreeing 150% with Brad here. Prints like that are fantastic. Anyone who uses opaque tape or shoe-polish on these prints should be executed! Hell, they should be executed anyway, just for fun!

The world simply does not have any use for SDDS, and it seems like Paramount has better plans for the space, anyway.

Normally I can see where the reel changes are, but I have to slow down when I get close to look for the splice. But when you do it like Paramount does it, you know if you've gone past, and you won't need to slow down simply because you can still see everything at top speed.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 02-25-2000 07:12 AM

Many years ago, there was a proposal to color code the edge of the film using the printer edge-light. Each reel would have a unique color. For example, the edge of reel 1 would always be red, reel 2 green, reel 3 blue, reel 4 cyan, reel 5 magenta, and reel 6 yellow. Not only would this help to find the reel changes, it would identify the reel number if the leaders were mixed up.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-25-2000 11:10 AM

>>"Now, I don't have facts and figures or anything, but I would agree that running a 4000 ft. reel is rare. Of all the theaters, I bet 90% are running platters. Of the 10% still doing c/o's, I bet most of them have had their magazines removed, and just have arms. Many theaters (in the late 50's and early 60's) put on 6000 ft. magazines for 3D, or to take advantage of carbon arcs that would run an hour. There might be some other reasons to run 4000 ft. reels, but magazine size limitation is not one of them."<<

Don't speculate...

The Norelco AAII is a 4500' magazine including the lower base. There are more 22"x8" reels out there than you would guess.

We put in a fair number of changeover houses and it is true the bulk run on 2000' reels some do use 6000' reels and without exception, the 70mm houses get 4500 foot reels...it is a standard Goldberg reel (complete with the 35/70 spacers).

But back to the cue mark thing...99% of the patrons not familiar with changeovers (heck most patrons think there is a "tape" up there coming out of the "cameras." If the average movie goer noticed the cues, I would agree, the cue needs to be changed.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-25-2000 05:05 PM

Keep the cues.

1) It helps you keep track of time when you're screening the movie.

2) It helps you know where to cut the film.

3) It's fun to explain them to people that you don't like and drive them crazy for the rest of their life!

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-25-2000 05:24 PM

>>It's fun to explain them to people that you don't like and drive them crazy for the rest of their life!<<

Yup! Gotta go along with that one!

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-25-2000 05:30 PM

So why does this mainstream wide release have no cues? Has someone just decided that they are not necessary and dumped them or has it just happened to be run off from the negative used for the video/dvd transfers?

You do get prints cue-less from time to time but they are normally the more obscure arthouse titles, not something starring that 'great Academy Award Winning actress' Gwyneth Paltrow.

What gives? Has anyone been consulted?

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-25-2000 06:27 PM

I say keep cues, for all the reasons listed.

99.99% of the audience has never noticed one. I've even explained them to people and they still don't notice them. Hand-scratched cues are bad.

I got a sample roll of something called "edge mark tape." It's the same as yellow splice tape, but only 1/4" wide. The idea is to use it to mark reel changes. 1/2" is enough to be able to see easily. It comes in handy if a print has lots of splices. I also place a short piece at the beginning of the credits. A quick glance at the platter during the movie gives me a clue how long it is until the credits begin to roll.

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Chris Wootten
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: Moonlit Cinema, RAAF Tindal, N.T. Australia
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-26-2000 07:57 AM

I say keep the cues too........
I have worked all my projectionist career in "change-over" cinemas and I regard it an art to carry out them correctly without the audience being aware of the change. I have visited many multiplexes with platters all over Australia and was very disappointed with the shows. With "automation" the quality of the performance drops, as there may only be one operator for six or more screens. The poor performance loses our profession customers, and I am disappointed that Cinemas rate so lowly the projectionists art. Profits are of the main concern. If all the Cinemas gave the performanes that our customers deserve, we would have full houses more often, and the video business would wither, but the way it is at present, the comments I get is...I dont bother with going to the cinema anymore, I'll wait till the video comes out....what an indictment of our industry.

I am sure too, that you would be surprised at just how many reel to reel cinemas there are still operating , in Aus anyway .......I would prefer to see a movie at one.....in my experience you get a better product.

Keep the cues.....it is like has been said before, if the leaders get mixed, it helps to sort the mess out......any many other reasons.

Keep smiling All......Chris

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David Kilderry
Master Film Handler

Posts: 355
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 03-01-2000 04:38 AM

Keep the cues! Our circuit is over 1,700 screens and none run changeovers any longer, so why keep them?

1. The audience does not even notice them.

2. Cues help orientate the "Joe" projectionist who can't other wise tell the end of the reel.

3. The cues assist in knowing exactly when a fade-out has ended and the tail commences.

4. If cues are left off, all those wonderful new restoration and revival prints of classics will have home-made cues scratched into the last 10 feet of every reel, by a desperate under-trained changeover operator.

5. Almost all theatre circuit headquarters, film distributors and Hollywood studio theatrettes run two projectors.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 03-02-2000 05:37 AM

Got a print of the new Molly Ringwald slasher flick "Cut" and there are no cues on this one either. I love it.

The wheels are turning...

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Scott D. Neff
Theatre Dork

Posts: 919
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Oct 1999

posted 03-04-2000 01:39 PM

I noticed that on our print of What Planet are you From? --- the cues were at the BOTTOM of the screen...

AND YESSSS!!! I had it framed properly...

I thought it was kinda odd.

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