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Author Topic: Electronic Projectors: Pros And Cons Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-10-2000 02:56 PM                     Hi Larry, That 6245.00 for the movement is a bargain if one considers the life span that you stated for a non abused AA-2. I have had several machines from the late 50's that I tore down, only to find that they were not abused and the gears, and movement had just the slightest perceptable wear on them. They are all still running to this day. Mark  |  IP: Logged System Notices Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi Posts: 215 Registered: Apr 2004 posted 10-27-2019 05:29 AM                 It has been 7138 days since the last post.  |  IP: Logged David Ferguson Film Handler Posts: 12 From: United Kingdom Registered: Sep 2018 posted 10-27-2019 05:29 AM                     I'd rather like to revive this 19+ year old thread, to find out whether the predictions made here were accurate or not. There was a lot of talk of electronic projectors lasting "5-10 years", which has now passed at least twice, so how are the electronic projectors (if there are still any left after the digital switch) holding up? Are electronic parts/chips easier/harder to find than mechanical parts by projector manufacturers who now don't exist?  |  IP: Logged Helmut Maripuu Film Handler Posts: 25 From: Västerås Västmanland Sweden Registered: Mar 2004 posted 10-27-2019 10:46 AM                     The film institute's 35/70 mm projectors have returned from the service workshop after a complete review. The Film Institute still shows quantities of both 35 and 70 mm films. The girl in the engine room is very nice and may be able to answer questions about old projectors and the service workshop that did the service on the projectors. https://www.filminstitutet.se/sv/om-oss/filmhuset/biografsalonger/  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-27-2019 04:09 PM                     Of our various systems presently not only film-capable but actually running film on any regular basis, I'd say 80% of them (if not higher) are electronic intermittent based (Kinoton E series). What has changed since this thread first started? It wasn't isn't that the electronic controllers/motors are not serviceable (in fact, we just sold a NEW FP75E intermittent motor to a customer) it is that the manufacturers of film based equipment have gone out of business or gone out of the film business! So for mechanicals, LaVezzi is not only out of the film business but essentially sold off (turned into multiple companies) so anything that was unique to them we have what we have and there will be no more. Kinoton GmBH is out of business. There is a Kinoton Digital Solutions but they are not the same company and should be thought of as a dealer/distributor rather than a manufacturer (they may "make" things but likely they are made via contract rather than in-house). What is also lost are the engineers and know-how on supporting this equipment. My most recent issues with the Electronic projectors has been Opto-Isolators going "noisy" causing false triggers or ignoring them. I've seen it show up in the "interface" board as well as the "friction" board. Then again, I had Optoisolators cause issues in Panastereo and other equipment too. Since Kinoton is no-more, the edge will probably swing more to mechanical projectors, over time for longevity. This equipment is not getting the use it used to get so mechanically, things should hold up if they are kept lubed/exercised but electronics will continue to age, used or not though the worst of it, capacitors, should be replaceable. While sprockets will likely be nearly impossible to reproduce unless technology improves, there are so many viable sprockets already out there that they just need to find their way to machines that may need them...and again, the use is so low, that they are not going to be consumed like they once were. I wonder about things like Dolby Digital...are there any parts in a DA20 that will age regardless of use? As I recall the CDS system had that problem that after 10-years or so, the OS was effectively erased. For now, if you have either mechanical or electronic projectors, there is no set "expiration date" that I know of. Just be sure to realize, if a part breaks, what it takes to get a replacement could be a challenge to find it. It probably exists...somewhere...but getting it to you may be a challenge.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-27-2019 08:02 PM                     quote: While sprockets will likely be nearly impossible to reproduce unless technology improves, Definitely not true. There is a company in North Central CA that makes incredible custom film sprockets. One of the guys at ILM told me about them back in the late 80's... they are still very much in business. They will make small quantities or large quantities. I had them make my 32 tooth intermittent sprockets for my VV projector. A friend made the drawings of the sprocket on Autocad and they in turn made them out of aluminum from the drawings. Have run hundreds of thousands of feet and the first of the six sprockets they made is still in the projector. They can literally make any type of sprocket one might need. Mark  |  IP: Logged Jarod Reddig Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 513 From: Hays, Ks Registered: Jun 2011 posted 10-27-2019 08:58 PM                     Has to be a record for oldest thread revived.  |  IP: Logged Marin Zorica Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 671 From: Biograd na Moru, Croatia Registered: May 2003 posted 11-07-2019 06:25 PM                     Just reading this post now......i have something to add related to topic. First electronic drive can have such precision and advantages over mehanics. I think manufacturers like kinoton (example as i am aware of how they designed) is that they made it kinda stupid. Instead they used servo motors driver and plc, which you do normaly in industry, they did design they own drive electronic, than you have problems like replacements in +10 yar period. But in case they have used for example Nidec unidrive or so servo motor drivers with built in high speed plc, they could do whole projector with two inverters and two servo motors. I have industry machinery full with components like that, they are like 10 years in production, and after nidec always made direct replacement upgrade with old models, maybe some tweking is need to be done, but you can upgrade. And also in cinema projector where motion is relly simple task to do with servo's. And, in term of market, why to make product (TODAY) to last that much when it will not be usefull over that long period?!!  |  IP: Logged Christopher Woollard Film Handler Posts: 40 From: Dovercourt, Harwich, England Registered: May 2004 posted 11-11-2019 11:07 AM                     Our National Film Theatre has now removed their FP75E projectors from NFT1 and returned to a very nice pair of DP70's. Vic8's are used in the other screens. I think this speaks for itself. The FP75E projectors were very expensive indeed, custom builds that included the ability to run 35mm nitrate.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-11-2019 11:28 AM                     There is probably a story there (pulling the FP75E). I suspect that their FP75Es were of the "EQ" type as Kinoton forced that model for Nitrate. The EQs were MUCH more persnickity than a standard "E" or "ES" (my preferred version). They would do dumb things like make the changeover a serial connection that could false trigger instead of the tried and true interface boards. I'm sure the lack of support now played into the decision as well. I still suspect there is an "EQ" related annoyance at play though.  |  IP: Logged

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