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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Censorship on Film-Tech (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Censorship on Film-Tech
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-26-2000 01:05 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In my opinion

1 This is Mr Millers site he owns it and as such has the right to control it and in some senses has a legal obligation to moderate it
2 Other threads have been closed do to members becomeing offended by one persons comments and that is Mr Millers option
3 As for resume's I have sujjested a members directory that info could be filed in
4 Every one does things differently and in different fashions. All one has to do is look at the Guttag/Miller or the Mcleod/Allen threads to see the debate and it has always been non personal and proffesional which i must add was not the case on RAMT when Mr Derrick of panastereo was basically attacked by comments by yourself when the views of some highly respected engineers conflicted with yours
4 This forum isn't a soapbox
5 lighten up (smile a little)

Dwayne Caldwell
Master Film Handler

Posts: 323
From: Rockwall, TX, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 05-26-2000 01:48 PM      Profile for Dwayne Caldwell   Email Dwayne Caldwell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't doubt your experience in this field, Steve. You sound like you've been around the block several times. But to send some of that information to Brad, resume or not, in order to request a higher film title inclines me to believe that you may be taking this site a little too seriously.

------------------
The man with the magic hands.

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-26-2000 02:15 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon,
I think your threshhold of what constitutes an "attack" is too low. Vigorous defense of one's opinion with plenty of background as to why one hold the opinion hardly constitutes an "attack" in my humble opinion. These are debates pure and simple. Someone states an opinion and why they think they are right. Another states his or her opinion and why THEY think that THEY are right. At that point it is entirely appropriate if the first person discusses the second person's reasoning and, if they can, explain why they think it's invalid. That's all fair play, IMHO. Personal attacks are not, of course, and surely you aren't suggesting that I am guilty of that.

Dwayne,
You're right; I blew it. I saw the titles, presumed they meant something and gave Brad some background towards what I thought was a more descriptive title. But like I said, in absence of information to the contrary I don't think it was a huge leap. As for posting a description of the contents of private email without prior consent, I can't say I agree with that, but what's done is done. I will forever hold my head in shame amongst you all because I misconstrued those labels. Do I need to put a smilie here for you get the sarcasm? If so then I am amazed Jonathon Swift was able to write "A Modest Proposal" without them. (If you've forgotten it was about solving starvation by eating children!)

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-26-2000 03:21 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve,

In response to your email, I would normally never do that, but my lack of respect for you is quickly dwindling due to your rantings with no hint whatsoever of when you are making a joke, being sarcastic or dead serious. If you are going to continue to come on here and put up fights (which you have done every day since you joined up), then I will have no qualms whatsoever about making you the poster boy for banning from the site.

Just ease up a bit please and consider smiling occasionally. I have not gone in and "censored" anything here, despite what you are attempting to make other forum members believe. All I have done is closed a thread that was turning into a rant and was offending people. I am now more insulted that you are trying to brand me as a censor of free speech, just because I put an end to such offensive remarks. That is what a "moderator" is for! Again, I never "censored" anything you have said here and this will be the absolute last time I am going to ask you nicely to lighten up a bit. If you are not intending to offend and are inclined to make an attempt to keep peace here, you can get the instructions on how to use the smilies at the "faq" link at the top of this screen. Of course you are not required to use the smileys, but most people will thank you for it and will help prevent any misconstruing of your posts if you do.


Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-26-2000 05:45 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, then I will ask again, as nicely as I possibly can, for you or anyone else to point out a posting of mine (an actual quote would be preferred) which you feel was out of line. I'm being totally sincere; I really don't know what all the fuss is about. I argued a position; that's all.

I'm sure you don't mean to suggest that anytime someone has a technical disagreement with someone that they must couch it in levity (re: the smilies, in print or just inferred). I'm not joking when I state my opinion just as I'm sure you aren't about yours. I can argue with you about it and you can argue with me and neither of us needs to make his opinion all light and breezy and happy. People disagree. No big deal. Nothing to get offended about even when opinions are stated straight away without lightening them.

>If you are going to continue to come on here and put up fights

As I've indicated I feel I am just defending a position. One reason I don't use smilies is because they tend to make it look like a joke. If I state an opinion--unless it's so broadly sarcastic as to be obvious to all--it's not a joke and I hesitate to make it look that way. But still no reason for anyone to take offense.

>just because I put an end to such offensive remarks

Such as? Quote some back to me. Please. I would like nothing better than to be able to say, ok Brad, I see what you mean; that went too far. But as I have been saying, when I look at what I've said I only see a strong opinion being voiced. You and several others have taken offense and I'm not sure to what. Hence my repeated request for some examples.
Maybe if one is thrown in my face I will agree with you about this. Maybe not. But I cannot say because no one is providing a specific example. "Offensive remarks" is a fairly serious charge and so is being on the verge of banning someone so surely you provide an example. That would only be fair.

I'm just trying to clarify my position and understand yours. Thank you.

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-26-2000 06:21 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon wrote: >>and it has always been non personal and proffesional which i must add was not the case on RAMT when Mr Derrick of panastereo was basically attacked by comments by yourself when the views of some highly respected engineers conflicted with yours<<

Oh! _THAT'S_ why your name sounded familiar! Yes, I remember that 'friendly' exchange. It wasn't pretty.

Ray Derrick was in to align all our cinemas last Wednesday and Thursday and let me tell you now, these cinemas have _NEVER_ sounded better! The man deserves all the acclaim one could bestow upon anyone.


------------------
"It's not the years honey, it's the mileage".
Indiana Jones.


Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-26-2000 06:38 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I sure don't recall anything personal but maybe I'm forgetting. I don't want to rehash it but I will try to summarize for those who don't want to look it up on Deja.

The question came up about using an EX (3-channel matrixed surround) decoder on non-EX films. I stated that it would cause the surround to bunch up at center rear. He stated that his EX unit (Panastereo) worked differently than Dolby's and would not do that. I think I probably stated that since Dolby's equipment is used to make the track (usually) their standard ought to be adhered to.

What followed was a debate about whether we should try to present a film exactly as the filmmakers heard it on the mixing stage as best we can (my side) or whether to try to make it even better if we can (his side). I think that's a fair representation of both opposing viewpoints. It still would make for a lively debate--but not in this thread please!

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-26-2000 06:42 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would have thought you'd beaten that puppy to death enough already over there.

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-26-2000 06:50 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Allright Steve, here's your wish:

Quote from Steve Kraus smarting off in an obviously "you're a moron" tone towards myself:
"Well, since it would take lengthy rounds at SMPTE and the film labs to get them to print an ID frame into the leader we could simply have filmmakers leave an extra frame at each end of the reel, contiguous with the existing first and last shot, thus eliminating a lot of awkward extra negative cutting. Oops, how silly of me! That's what they do now!"

Quote from Steve Kraus toward Mark Gulbrandsen implying more "you are a moron" on dailies:
As for dailies, Mark all that fresh mountain air is getting to you. The editors don't put cue marks on dailies rolls! You run until you see it go to leader, roll, and change right over. Let me send you a bag of smog so you will regain your faculties!"

Quote from Steve Kraus toward Dwayne Caldwell yet again smarting off as if he is too superior to have to sink to standard internet expressions when Dwayne was only trying to offer a suggestion:
"I will forever hold my head in shame amongst you all because I misconstrued those labels. Do I need to put a smilie here for you to get the sarcasm?"

And of course there is this entire thread in which you have simply thrown a little temper tantrum because I put a stop to a ranting and offensive thread. This whole thread here was obviously started as a direct attack on me over the way I run this PRIVATE SITE which is PRIVATELY OWNED and PRIVATELY FUNDED...and for no other reason. The day I make this a paid "membership" site, you can complain all you want about the way I run it and there will be no moderator of any sort. I'll even name it www.stevescinemabitchfestcentral.com just for you, because that is exactly what it will turn into. Until then, you are always free to leave. I, nor is anyone else forcing you to be here.

There are more examples, but I will not continue to patronize you further on this subject.

I think the only other thing you have left to say on this forum is an apology. If you don't feel you should offer that, just let me know and I'll be happy to take care of this on my end. I'm done with this issue.

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-26-2000 07:05 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've got a smile on my face.

... see?

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-26-2000 08:17 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gee and I don't ever remember writing about putting cue marks on dailies....where was that Brad? Perhaps I did but not on this thread. They do put em on rough cuts though. I'll have to go back and look for it......thats definately not what I meant and I think Steve knows that? Damn, I love that fresh mountain air! Steve can keep the smog!
Mark


Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-26-2000 09:45 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
POST REMOVED BY MODERATOR


Stephen Jones
Master Film Handler

Posts: 314
From: Geelong Victoria Australia
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-26-2000 10:01 PM      Profile for Stephen Jones   Email Stephen Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that Brad is doing a great job in running this site.Closeing the thread was appropriate as it was turning offensive and I can understand people being offended in what was being said.For heavens sake Steve lighten up .This site is a fun place where we all exchange ideas and if we make a mistake and are put right we take it on the chin,it's all part of the learning experience.Once again Brad you are doing a great job here an I for one appreciate your efforts.

Stephen

------------------

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-26-2000 10:01 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Allright Steve, I've had enough of your nonsense. THERE YOU GO...I'VE CENSORED YOU! HAPPY NOW? (Not that it matters, Steve is no longer with us.)

Bye, bye.

John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-26-2000 10:20 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve? ... Steve?

PFUHHH! PFUHHH! --tap tap tap--

Hello?

(sorry Tim)

Everybody breath in and smell the fresh air.




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