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Author Topic: CP650??
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-14-2000 04:25 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Last I heard the reason more dye transfer prints aren't being made is because unskilled projectionsts are COMPLAINING about them shedding! Yes, they shed like no tomorrow, but a quick coating of FilmGuard completely 100% stops that and DAMN they look incredible!!!

The cost is supposed to be virtually the same from what I understand as well.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-14-2000 05:34 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The simple answer to that is to pre treat all the Dye Transfer stuff with Film-Guard before it leaves the lab. I'm sure Brad would cut a good deal to Technicolor on a tanker full of the stuff.
Geez, we've gone from Dolby to Dye transfer all in one thread!
Mark


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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-14-2000 05:42 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad--would Mark's idea work? Is a one-time-only application of FG effective? Or must it be constantly re-applied during the course of a film's run?

This sounds like a great idea if the idea works.

I'm not as knowledgeable as many of the posters here, but I'm not an "unskilled projectionist," either and I _did_ complain about shedding of the new IB prints. I have an R13 of "GWTW" here in my basement and it is _really_ bad (worse in Simplex X-Ls than in Centurys, tho). Admittedly, though, it had been seriously mistreated at some point in its earlier life. When I ran the 1998 reissue of "GWTW" on 20-minute reels, I could barely keep up with the show due to the heavy cleaning that the projector gates required between reels. I didn't dare try to run this on 6000' reels for that reason...

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Marc Jones
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: Elizabethtown, KY
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-14-2000 07:10 PM      Profile for Marc Jones   Email Marc Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have heard that the CP 650 cannot be Bi amped?
Does any one know this to be true or false.

Thanks
Marc Jones

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 06-14-2000 08:23 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've run only two "new" IB features (13th Warrior and Bulworth) but that was enough to convince me that -currently- it will not fly. The shedding was terrible! And since I knew it was an IB print, I even dropped in on my nights off to ensure (with a cattle prod) the ushers were cleaning. After 4 weeks of Warrior, the shedding still built up so much, it pushed it out of focus. (Although, for two wonderful weeks it looked great.)

I can't imagine what it would have look like at a place that cleans their projectors even less.

Mark, is there some way you could actually measure how much weave, bouncing, etc? And what happens if you try to complain or send a print back? (What, you don't happen to have a $15,000 3-color temperature meter in your closet!)

I posted a topic awhile ago (Measuring Lab Quality (for release prints) asking for a quantitative way to accept or reject a print, that can be done in the theaters. But no one seemed to have a solution.

Although, maybe we should listen to Marc J. and start talking about CP650's!

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Ken Jacquart
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-14-2000 10:57 PM      Profile for Ken Jacquart   Author's Homepage   Email Ken Jacquart   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Marc,

The CP650 does not provide an option of bi-amp output as does the CP500 (with the Cat. No. 683 option card). There just wasn't that great of a demand for the bi-amp card with the CP500 due to the availability and excellent quality from other sources (amplifier and speaker manufacturers).

ken

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Kevin Crawford
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 207
From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-15-2000 01:23 AM      Profile for Kevin Crawford   Email Kevin Crawford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There really isn't alot of demand for the biamp card? My company, through the lousy advice of their equipment supplier, has gotten the biamp card for all of their 500's that are not THX.

Actually, I am glad about the 650 not being biamped. Since I have not seen a monitor that can use a biamped signal for the processor.

When the equipment supplier does an install, they do not feel that it is important to set up the equipment to monitor the processor output. But they never have to troubleshoot anything.

Sorry, I just needed to vent.

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Kevin Crawford
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 207
From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-15-2000 01:25 AM      Profile for Kevin Crawford   Email Kevin Crawford   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
By the way Ken, are you the infamous Ken of the Ken and Lonnie switch on the SA 10?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-15-2000 01:32 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott,

One good coating of FilmGuard will kill 90% of the shedding, and will last for a good while. Even if you took your old and severely mistreated reel and ran it through FG one time, you would find the same results.

"Bulworth" ran for 5 weeks in dye transfer at the theater I was at and "13th Warrior" ran for 4 weeks in dye transfer. (Why can't they print something really good in dye transfer?) The Christie projectors were only cleaned once a week, and they really didn't need it either. It is the easy solution, but I cannot see the Tech lab going for it.

On the biamping of the CP650, I agree it is a waste. Not implementing it brings the cost down...and that's a good thing!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-15-2000 06:09 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Building bigger or more labs to allow slower printing would likely drive print costs up considerably. Print film volume is very cyclical, with the busiest times being early summer releases and the Thanksgiving/Christmas season. Most businesses with cyclical demand size their plant and staff for the average demand, and work like crazy (overtime, multiple shifts) during the busy season.

The choice of print stocks is usually made by the distributor. Kodak VISION Premier Color Print Film 2393 costs slightly more, and is usually chosen for the "look". AFAIK, most of the "Gladiator" prints were on 2393.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Oscar Neundorfer
Master Film Handler

Posts: 275
From: Senoia, GA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-15-2000 06:29 AM      Profile for Oscar Neundorfer   Author's Homepage   Email Oscar Neundorfer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin Crawford wrote:
>>Actually, I am glad about the 650 not being biamped. Since I have not seen a monitor that can use a biamped signal for the processor.<<

Kevin, SMART makes a monitor that can do that, the SMART MN610 (which will even do tri-amp) and we also have the PANASTEREO CX230-EX. Both of these also monitor the ex format channels.

------------------
Oscar Neundorfer
Chief Engineer
SMART Devices, Inc.

oscar@smartdev.com

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-15-2000 11:36 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Orpheum Lichtspiele sent this picture in.

...and here's some more basic info on the unit. CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD



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Ken Jacquart
Film Handler

Posts: 82
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-15-2000 12:56 PM      Profile for Ken Jacquart   Author's Homepage   Email Ken Jacquart   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kevin,
Yup, that's me... although Lonny deserves most of the credit for that.

ken

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Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-15-2000 03:20 PM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I disagree with the opinion that the bi-amp option for the CP500 is a bad thing. At our theatre, we have the Cat 683, and never once have we regretted spending the extra money. It sounds great! It has to be said, though, that our tech said it was the first 683 card he installed--there had not been any real demand for it...

As for sound monitoring, we have two separate monitoring systems. One is tapped from the amp for the hearing impaired and thus is a centre-balanced mix. If everything seems to be working OK, this is what we normally use.

The other system monitors the outputs, after the power amps, of each channel. The LF and HF for each channel can be checked separately in this way. We also use meters for each amp, which is very useful for quick troubleshooting. This monitoring system basically does the same thing that a THX booth monitor does, except that they don't provide the meters, and we have better booth speakers.

Except for the lack of some 70mm sound formats (see my earlier posting on this subject), I really like the CP500.

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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 06-15-2000 03:47 PM      Profile for Bill Purdy   Author's Homepage   Email Bill Purdy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Note to Kevin Crawford: our Model MS-100 monitor is available with bi-amped inputs which interestingly enough was originally made in answer to customers who asked for it for use with CP-45s. Talk about gilding the lily. In any case, it is a stock item.

------------------
Bill Purdy
Component Engineering


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