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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Technicolor Screw-up of the Week - The Sequel (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Technicolor Screw-up of the Week - The Sequel
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-18-2000 12:24 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kodak usually supplies film to the big labs as 6000-foot rolls. Smaller labs use 4000-foot, 3000-foot or even 2000-foot lengths. The ultrasonic "lab splices" are made on the unexposed raw stock, under darkroom "safelight" conditions. On average, about one reel in three may have a lab splice.

"Lab Splices" are an economic necessity, as few reels are exact multiples of the 6000-foot raw stock length. Without lab splices, the labs would have to discard unprinted "short ends". Raw stock color print film costs about $0.09 (9 cents) a foot. Labs offer splice-free "show prints" at a premium price.

Trailers are often printed from a "looped" negative. Lab splices are used to reduce "short end" waste.

Since lab splices are made in the dark on unprocessed film, before an image is even printed, they may contain unprocessed emulsion in the ultrasonic weld, and may not always be on the frameline. Unreliable or unsightly lab splices should be remade at the theatre.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Dave Cutler
Master Film Handler

Posts: 277
From: Centennial, CO
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 07-18-2000 01:25 PM      Profile for Dave Cutler   Email Dave Cutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone ever get a lab tape splice? I have seen a few, but none recently. They were realy nice 8-perf splices, wish they would do that more often. Probably too expensive though. Lab ultrasonic splices wouldn't be so bad if they would just stay on the frameline and not plague the print with discoloration (sometimes for several feet).


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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-18-2000 01:33 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John:
Then how come I've seen two lab splice in a reel before?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-18-2000 02:12 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The occasional discoloration around lab splices is due to fog from the darkroom lighting used to illuminate the splicing area. Sometimes an operator has to remake a splice, or takes a few seconds longer than normal to make a splice, exposing the unprocessed film to extra light. Typically 589 nm low pressure sodium vapor, amber LEDs or Series 8 safelights are used to illuminate the work areas, so any fog is usually blue or cyan. A red light would cause cyan fog. "White" room light or daylight produces yellow or brownish fog on print film.

Reels returned for serious fogging are usually replaced without question, and the lab tries to fix the root cause. Information about darkroom lighting is at:
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/technical/illumination.shtml

Raw stock tape splices are sometimes still used. But the tape covers up the undeveloped emulsion during processing, so you will lose at least two frames when you remove the splice.

Reels with more than one splice may have encountered a problem during printing or processing. They should be rare.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-18-2000 08:57 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

What would it take to get the labs to use the "end of rolls" for trailer stock? I could put up with splices within trailers, but I cannot stand having anything marring the feature.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-18-2000 10:49 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just finished building up our print of In Crowd and it had two lab splices in the whole print. Both of them were repaired by somebody in the lab. The were darned near perfect, too!

Okay, so the print came from Warner Brothers, via Kally Express. (E.T.S.)
In my experience, WB usually always puts out a quality product. (Film wise, that is. )

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 07-18-2000 10:59 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I love WB!! Their reels are great, never warping or falling apart. Their reels are always heads up. And most important, we've never had QC problems with their film.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-19-2000 02:21 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

If those disgusting, unprofessional pieces of crap that we call "lab splices" are an economic necessity, then why did they used to be so rare? Did labs used to just say "screw the leftover amount!" and toss it away? Maybe Kodak is part of the cause by only offering rolls of 6,000 feet? It's always good economy to buy in bulk anyway. Lab splices really reduce presentation quality by a very high degree, especially when the film gets discolored and the Dolby Digital track gets messed up for the rest of the reel. It happens way too often. And there really is no excuse for it! There has got to be a better way of doing things, but Kodak and the labs just can't seem to figure it out. The standards of the labs do not meet the standards of exhibition. I'm sure you've read my Deluxe Hollywood review.

What's next? Lab splices in my Kodak EktaCrap 24 exposure 35mm still camera film?


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-19-2000 06:49 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A 6000-foot roll of raw stock is about as big as a person can handle in a darkroom environment. So increasing the roll size is not an option today.

Replacing even the worst ultrasonic lab splice means losing only two frames of film.
Extensive discoloration (fogging) and disruption of the digital tracks are not the norm, and a replacement reel should be requested.

When prints were made one reel at a time, "short ends" were spliced together "off line" and used for trailers or short reels. At 9 cents a foot for raw stock, throwing away short ends would dramatically increase print prices.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Joseph Pandolfi
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Milford, CT.
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 07-19-2000 07:32 PM      Profile for Joseph Pandolfi   Email Joseph Pandolfi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
DUSTIN: Received Pokemon 2000 on Tuesday (yes, you heard right) night from a local distributor. The reels are better and the quality is better. Only found one lab splice in R5 --(I thought were we shortchanged on film in R6, only a quarter of the reel was full) By the way whatever happened to those huge 6000' blue plastic reels WB would send out?

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-20-2000 01:17 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How about THIS one...

Just built a print of Children of Heaven received from Technicolor. (Print #10)

It had the old "Integrity Inspected" stickers on it and everything. When I screened it, I found about 2 EXTRA minutes of film! The last scene from the end of reel #1 REPEATED at the beginning of reel #2!

Talk about Deja' Vous!

Talk about Deja' Vous!

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Mike Spaeth
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1129
From: Marietta, GA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-20-2000 03:36 AM      Profile for Mike Spaeth   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Spaeth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm gonna come to Technicolor's defense here - they've got one thing going for them - their screen slide advertising program. On a scale of 1-10, I give them an 8 (as opposed to a 5 for NCN)

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-20-2000 04:13 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had the same thing happen on Saving Private Ryan when the movie first opened to sold-out crowds. The last scene on reel #1 repeated after a brief dropout in sound. This was discovered by me on the Friday night it opened. The reel was actually printed this way. Nobody had prescreened the print, as it was against company policy. We were able to get a replacement reel in that very night and it was fine for the next day.

After that incident, prescreening movies was not only OK with my company, but recommended.

We use Val Morgan for our slide program. They really suck ass.


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Michael McGillion
Film Handler

Posts: 18
From: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 07-20-2000 07:02 AM      Profile for Michael McGillion   Author's Homepage   Email Michael McGillion   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Val Morgan is in the US too? I thought they were only in Australia...

Incidentally, did you know that "Val Morgan is making olympic history by being the first cinema advertising company to be a sponsor of the olympic games"?

I knew you'd be thrilled. But out of curiosity, why does Val Morgan suck in the States? We don't seem to have too many problems with them (I work for Hoyts) at my location, apart from the very occasional wrong slide sent.

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Mike Spaeth
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1129
From: Marietta, GA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-20-2000 08:29 AM      Profile for Mike Spaeth   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Spaeth   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
my mistake - I said "screen slide" I meant "rolling stock"

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