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(A side note: We have 5 year-old projectors that leak oil. The manufacturer says; "All projectors leak; nothing can be done." They've been making projectors for, what, 90 years? This is not rocket science. A design error by one engineer having a bad can effect hundreds of operators for the next 10 years! If your car had some of these defects, you could have more recourse then provided by projector manufacturers.)

A problem, though, is there's heavy pressure to make projectors (and other "booth" products) as cheap as possible. Years ago, when a theater owner bought two projectors for his single-screen, spending an additional $3-4 thousand was not going to break the bank.

Now with a 20-plex, owners try to shave even a few dollars off of everything. And with manufacturers pushing the engineers to get new designs out to capture a shrinking market, mistakes are going to happen, and there no money left to go back and "fix" earlier designs.

As I said, while I agree with Brad, projector manufacture is not a business I'd want to be in today.

Nobody is forcing Christie (or other manufacturers) to make projectors so the cost excuse is no excuse. If they or others sell at too cheap a price to make money then it is their own damn fault.

The fact that in the 15-20 years that Christie projectors have been in the Washington DC area and just about all have been removed and canned is indicative of the product and support since there are more than one technician and theatre company at play here (actually there are several and their is a concenus). Can you imagine a Simplex or a Century considered obsolete after just 15 years? There is clearly something wrong here. We just pulled the last P-35 out of service that we had to deal with and it is heading to our "shelf of shame". For such a well designed projector, Christie sure seems to need to make an awful lot of major changes to it. Personally, I think the machining is excellent and possibly the best. Everytime I have changed a part in one, the fit was perfect. I remember checking out the "new" curved gate when it came out in the 80s and pulled a straight gate P-35 out...after bolting the new head on, I just moved the turret over (with the lenses in tact) and aperture plates...and everything lined up on screen perfectly, no nudging was even needed!

The most reliable machines in cinema history have been the gear driven ones and oil bath machines (when kept in oil) tend to have the least amount of parts failures. Why Christie is insisting on the belt driven design is beyond me. I wish Simplex would bring back the gear driven soundhead. Again, if kept in oil (of the proper weight) it will run for decades. And while we are at it, design it with digital sound in mind so it isn't an old mono-optical head with digital stuff kludged in.

John I seriously doubt that either Simplex or Century will leave the market before film does. They both have such fans that Strong would loose sales to another manufacturer (eg Christie) if a purchaser could not get his/her preferred machine. There are those, like me who prefer the oil bath design, while others like the servicability and simplicity of Century. Both put out competent performances. Both can be picked on for their faults and both can be praised for their accomplishments.

Steve

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Oh, sure.. I agree.. But you know what I mean; manufacturers are "encouraged" to make them as cheaply as they can. For example, there's no safety-fire shutter on our Simplex PR projectors. It's not really needed; the automation will close the regular zipper shutter when the failsafes drop. I would rather have the safety-fire shutter- it's more foolproof. But they probably felt they could reduce the price a bit, so...

I'm guessing, but bringing back Simplex's gear driven soundhead would cost too much money in manufacturing costs, and would increase maintaince costs. Awhile ago, someone at r.a.m.t. noted that it was probably cheaper (if money is all you cared about) to not maintain equipment and just throw it away after 7 years or so, then to pay (in labor) to maintain the equipment. People have accused car manufacturers of this for years.

Since accounting people (not "showmen") make and run theaters, that the way it goes.

As far as either Simplex or Century leaving the market place, well I'm just guessing, of course. But why would the same company sell two competing products? Even Coke got rid of "New Coke" after a while. Also, if everyone dislikes Christie so much, they aren't really in the running. Cinemecannica is perceived as hard to get parts for (and expensive.) Philips are probably the best value, but are also perceived as expensive.

Accounting people sure don't care about what brand of projector they buy; you could tell them a dog-beater movment was the way to go, and they'd buy it if the price was right. It has already been demonstrated that Americans no longer have "brand loyalty" to car manufacturers (like they did in the 1950's and 60's.) Whoever owns Simplex and Century has a "strong" hold on the market and can do almost what they want.

Also, I don't think modern projectors are made that well. I feel all the machining technology that has been developed over the last 30 years as gone more to making projectors cheaper rather then better. I think that the reason some of those old projectors got to be 40 years old was because they were maintained properly for their first 20 years or so. Then the (good) operators were let go.

Owners also show repair and upgrade costs on their P&Ls each quarter.

Are we talking about real theatre owners, or venture capital types who build on the ragged edge of the margin in order to suck in dollars to finance (or convince others to provide financing) for their next venture?

Believe it or not, there are still one or two guys out there who still build and operate theatres to make a living because that's just what they do.

I work for a company like this. We run Ballantyne because we have become pretty good at keeping them going. They are easy to work on and fairly easy to maintain. They require a little attention, but so long as it is provided, they work.

I've never bought a Christie projector so I can't really comment on this thread.

All I know is that I would not want to be the guy who did this if these concerns with quality and tech support are real.

The big chains could take a lesson from the little guys here. It is a "big deal" when we "buy" anything! The true test comes when we add up the headaches and costs after the purchase.

Anything that posesses moving parts will eventually break (I think that Newton said this *grin*).

How quickly can something be repaired? How much do repairs cost? These are two questions that the "mega-chains" never ask. They are tabulating installation costs for the investors.

I would really like to see a comparison between "theatre chains that have always been theatre chains" and "venture cap people who wanted to make a quick buck" regarding the long term survivability of companies.

Folks, we show movies! Our tools are f&*$%#@! EXPENSIVE!! Even the slightest inquiry as to their maintenance costs (while providing quality presentations), is worth looking at.

We basically deal with Ballantyne/Strong, Dolby, DTS, QSC, JBL, EV, SRT and Component Engineering. We do this because technical support is just a phone call away (and because the stuff usually just "WORKS!").

The companies that we work with all have a Bob, Sean, Ralph, (Lonnie and Ken), or even an "Oscar" who always answers the phone should we call!

Oscar gets quotation marks because he will fix stuff that's a hundred years old!

The "big guys" listen to the accountants who do the install estimates. The little guys are in it for the long run. We just want it to keep going.

It's done all the time:

Ford Motor Company has Lincoln, Mercury, Ford, Mazda, Volvo, Jaguar, Auston-Martin, and Land Rover.

General Motors has Cadillac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Chevy, GMC, Saturn, Saab, Opel, Vauxhaull, Holden.

Chrysler/Daimler has Mercedes, Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, and Jeep.

Kodak has MAX, GOLD and ROYAL GOLD films for consumer photography:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/film/index.shtml

Having a variety of brands/models gives the customer choice among a range of features and price.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Accountants buy projectors; they don't care about features. Since not that many projectors are sold, I would think it's a fairly competitive market. How many projectors were sold last year? One thousand? Car makers lose interest if they don't sell at least 30,000 units.

Here's a question to everybody: Let's say Century and Simplex combined the best features of each. So, it's a semi-already-proven design. We'll call this a; "Cenplex." To save manufacturing costs, let's also say they decide not to make any more regular Century or Simplexs (except parts, and even those cost more.) Parts made in a larger scale for this "Cenplex" would be cheaper, too. Whatever you pay for (say) gate bands would be 30% cheaper. It would be a one-size-fits-all (no 70mm, two-lens turret, etc.)

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