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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » House light levels during show? (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: House light levels during show?
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-26-2001 05:10 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The important thing is to keep the light off the screen. If you can cast a distinct shadow on the dark screen, the light is too bright, or needs to be shielded.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-26-2001 12:40 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, there is no shadow. The filiaments are just visible and they aren't burning "hot" enough to give off any real light. It's just enough for people to spot in the dark so they don't run into the wall. (Which I have actually seen happen. )


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-26-2001 12:55 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have no problem with very dim lights along the walls, or the aisle/stair guide lights, as long as they are not in the "line of sight" when viewing the screen, and don't shine on the screen. Some theatres can even run with the ceiling lights on very dim to provide extra safety/security, as long as the lights are completely shielded from hitting the screen. Again, you simply should not be able to cast a distinct shadow on the dark screen from any light source in the auditorium.
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/december99/pytlak.shtml

(I personally like a tiny bit of light over the seats, as it adds to the "group" feeling of the audience).

An interesting anecdote is that I once worked at a theatre that had an illuminated clock just to the left of the screen. It was great when you were keeping track of the time watching a bad movie, but was a constant distraction to the audience during a good movie, ruining the "magic" of the silver screen.

-------------------------------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-26-2001 05:08 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Egad, a clock! That's about the craziest thing I've ever heard of.

On the ceiling lights, I really do not like to leave them on even at a "glow". They must be fairly bright to begin with to make any real difference in the illumination of the auditorium and for people like me who wear glasses, if there is a tiny smudge on them, the light catches it and is an incredible distraction. Ceiling lights should go all the way off. Side lighting is fine.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-26-2001 05:11 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I bought my theatre in '79, there was one of those illuminated clocks...believe it or not, it extended OVER the screen a few inches! Needless to say, removing it was one of the first improvements we made.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-26-2001 07:33 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad: You're right about the overhead lights and eyeglasses. I tend to forget about those fogged lenses coming in from the cold, and about the flare and catchlights, since I've been happily wearing contacts for over 15 years. But I do like being part of an appreciative audience during a movie, which a bit of light helps.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-26-2001 10:45 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A friend of mine collects neon clocks. He has several that came from theaters. The ones from theaters all have a red neon tube around the face, but with a shield, so you are viewing the reflected light- not the tube itself.

They don't seem too bad. The red light keeps your pupils dilated, and the low light does not seem too distracting. Probably another example of where the old-timers knew how to do something better.

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Andrew McCrea
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 645
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-27-2001 08:07 PM      Profile for Andrew McCrea   Author's Homepage   Email Andrew McCrea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At Famous Players, the sconces and recessed lights are hooked up together. TOO BAD!

At the theatre I plan to open, the curtains will be kept shut until showtime. When showtime comes, the lights will dim down 3/4 and the curtain will rise. The lights will stay on 3/4 until the trailers are done. As soon as the actual movie starts, the lights will be right off. At the end of the show, the lights won't rise until it says "CAST" on the screen. The curtain will finally lower after the film has run out of the projector!

We will also introduce shows with a spotlight on the bottom center of the screen. An usher will come up at 5 minutes to and say welcome to this theatre, blah blah blah!

As for Famous Players,
The lights are soo low when you enter SilverCity St. VBital's auditorium that seriously, there's no point in even having the lights on!

A women tripped inbetween the aisles at some SilverCity in ontario in 1999 and broke a rib or something !
Famous Players had travellers insurance so, the old couple couldn't sue, but now they leave the lights on until the actual movie! It sux!


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Brad Miller
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Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-27-2001 09:36 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Andrew, I must disagree with your light up placement. Since there is no standard AND the fact that most people who stay to watch part of the credits are specifically looking for the cast list, it just looks like the projectionist is a doof and can't place the cue in the proper location and/or it is a manual booth and the operator wasn't on the ball. Also, when the lights are brought up partway through the end credits, it is a subtle way of saying "get the hell out", which I as a credit watcher do not appreciate. House lights should rise at the first credit or not come on until the credits are completely over.

On the curtains, the traditional manner is for the screen to never be "blank". Waiting until the film has ran out of the projector defeats the purpose. They should completely close the screen on the last frame of credits.


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Scott Norwood
Film God

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From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-27-2001 10:01 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm with Brad on this--the curtains should just start to be opening when the first frame of film hits the screen and should just finish closing when the changeover closes. If you figure out how long it takes the curtain to close and convert that to a number of feet of film, you can add a "curtain cue" to the lower-right hand corner of the frame (one frame only, please) with a Clint Phare cue marker. Then, you just need to watch for the cue and hit the curtain switch/button to ensure that the curtains will finish closing at the right time. (You don't _always_ need to mark the film if there's something else in the frame that can be used to identify the right time to hit the curtain switch). Of course, if you have automation, there are other ways of doing this. (I'm assuming "traveler" curtains here...I've never worked in a theatre with "waterfall" curtains.)

As for lights, I generally like to start shows this way: fade non-sync music to 0%; then, house lights to 30%; then, dim footlights (one color at a time if you have multiple colors) to 0%; then, start film/open curtain. Run trailers. Close curtain on end of last trailer and bring house lights to 0%, re-open curtain on "Dolby" logo (if a Dolby film or run digital sound format logo if in a digital format) or main title.

For the end of the show, my preference is to keep the house lights down until the end of the credit crawl as the curtains are closing. If necessary for safety reasons, it looks OK to bring the house lights to 30% or so at the start of the credit crawl (I usually wait until the first line is about half-way up the screen before starting to bring the lights up).

Obviously this all assumes a single-screen with manual booth. If you have automation, you're sort of stuck with whatever happens when the timer hits "0" and the show starts. Hopefully it will lower the house lights to something reasonable and then you'll have another cue at the start of the feature to lower the house lights to 0% and one at the start or end of the credits to bring the house lights to 100% (slowly). Sound format cues should also be added as appropriate.

I say that I like "30%" for house lights when there is a picture of any type on the screen; this will vary by theatre...some theatres are very bright at 30% and others are very dim; it depends on the audience and auditorium, but I'd say that 75% is almost certainly too bright...

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-28-2001 06:02 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gee, Theatre clocks were kinda the "grand-daddy" of theatre ads!

They were typically neon lit, as someone else noted. The one we have at our shop has a violet tube in it. Around the face of the clock would be some form of advertisment. In our case, it is for what was a local pharmacy.

They typically augmented an Art Deco's decor.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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John Walsh
Film God

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From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
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 - posted 01-28-2001 09:56 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The friend I mentioned had a clock with; "RKO THEATER TIME" on it. He ran the place when it was a 1400 seat house- the clock was above an exit door on the right side of the stage. Later, RKO tripled the theater. When they were done, the clock was in what became an exit hallway, with no one to see it! It stayed there (running) for another 4-5 years, so he took it.

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-28-2001 10:34 PM      Profile for William Hooper   Author's Homepage   Email William Hooper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
An interesting anecdote is that I once worked at a theatre that had an illuminated clock just to the left of the screen.

Clocks seem to have been common installations at smaller & "neighborhood" houses from the teens up through the 50's (& of course often left there if the theater survived past that time).

You can sort of see why they'd put a clock up there - so people wouldn't stay too long & not forget to leave! With continuous, grindhouse performances, people would be coming in & staying an indefinite time. The clock would make sure you didn't lose track of time & left, the sooner the better for the theater. Hey, after you've bought your ticket, from a business standpoint, the next thing you need to do is leave.

I read a wonderful reminiscence of early silent-era theaters written in longhand by a senior citizen who recalled that during the summers of her childhood, the place to go was to the movies, & as the day progressed the houses would fill up with children. At one house, every now & then, the manager would come down front at about the time the evening crowd usually began to arrive & shout "Would all the kids who have been here since two o'clock please GO HOME!"

There are some pictures of silent-era front ends at
http://members.nbci.com/saenger.1/foh/foh.htm

You can see clocks at Woodley's Optic Theatre & the Savoy Theatre.

And one that I've gotten tired of cleaning up, but here it is all rough anyway, there's a clock at the Family Theatre



As you can see, there were worse things than sitting behind a post back in the day.
You could be sitting behind a tree.


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Michael Hunt
Film Handler

Posts: 63
From: Gloucester, Gloucestershire, UK
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 02-26-2001 01:03 PM      Profile for Michael Hunt   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Hunt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I opened my cinema back in '88 the Building Inspector insisted that I have four 25W secondary lights in the ceiling, as well as two exit signs (the cinema is about 8m wide, 9m long and 6m high and a flat floor).

Two of these lights were about 1m from the top of the screen, and would have made screenings awful, if the inspector hadn't agreed that these could be shaded - so I did, with four hand crafted large painted drinks cans! these saw stirling service for about ten years, when a new Inspector wasn't happy with the level of illumination, and insisted that these fittings be removed completely, and be replaced with a new secondary lighting fitting on the back wall of the auditorium, that would only come on in a power failure - he happened to dislike going into lit cinemas himself, and was happy that the two exit signs over the doors at the back of the auditorium gave enough light to find ones way out under normal circumstances.

He did however insist on extra fittings being put in in our other auditorium, one of which was going to be above a door on the stage that lives behing the screen when we screen films in there - after it was pointed out that this would prevent film shows in this auditorium, he permitted this fitting to be one that we could turn off when we didn't want it on, which is of course most of the time

I also ended up with two fittings on a balcony which isn't used for films, as its at the same level as the projectors, and people would manage to get in the way of the picture, these were illuminating the screen a treat until I placed some Neutral density lighting gel in them (Lee Filters 210) which reduced the light level a treat, and so far hasn't received comment from the inspector...

As to leaving the houselights on during a feature - the only time I had to do this was for a screening of 'The Nightmare Before Christmas' which had been organised by Film Education, an organisation over here that arrange film shows for schools, with back up information, anyway I had a cinema full of seven to eight year olds, some of which were scared by the movie, and wouldn't watch it without the lights on (although at about 30%).

Normally I show trailers with the houselights off, and leave then off until the cast list has finished, when I'll bring them up to 25% for the rest of the credits, then fading to full, with tab warmers as the tabs close

Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-26-2001 01:31 PM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A month ago, Brad wrote:

>>On the curtains, the traditional manner is for the screen to never be "blank". Waiting until the film has ran out of the projector defeats the purpose. They should completely close the screen on the last frame of credits.<<

Just saw this and had to comment. I agree that there's no point in waiting until the film is out of the projector before closing the curtain, but neither do I like closing the curtain too early.

For me, the perfect closing of the curtains is to have them _almost_ touch the last of the screen credits while the curtain spotlights light up the last lines or the company logo (or whatever that is last) and--of course--the piece of the screen that is still visible. The effect must be that the spots fade out the film exactly at the same moment when the curtains close on the credits.

I hate those smallish left- or right-aligned end credits, especially when the feature is in Scope, because having a large curtain "cover" them too early is ugly as hell and pretty much destroys the last of the film for whatever audience that is still watching the film.

Our curtains take about 28 seconds to close, btw.



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