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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: THX certified PC?!?
Tom Sauter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 163
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 02-09-2001 10:47 AM      Profile for Tom Sauter   Author's Homepage   Email Tom Sauter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If THX certification were tied to certification of theatre employees, its sounds like a perfect marraige between THX and the IATSE. It seems around here that the only THX certified screens are union operated. While many companies are afraid of unions, in a city like mine where 27% of the work force is unionized it could actually be a big draw if marketed properly.

Sorry to hear that the Pittsford and Marketplace cinemas are no longer...they were my old high school stomping grounds.

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-09-2001 10:52 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

Another very serious problem with presenatations today stems back to our friends at TES. Just last week I was in Dallas and visited two theaters and BOTH complexes had a print with lab defects! Want to know why these reels were not replaced? There wasn't time because the prints did not arrive until Thursday night, when the projectionists are WAAAAAAAY too busy to do full inspections and when a few films come in, frequently there is just not time for a technical screening. Of course, by the time the customers complain it is too late...as the theaters will get charged for the reels with the old "well, you must've damaged them" line.

So it's lab defects right? TES will know the difference, right? Nope! I have called in replacement reels with brown and blue lab scratches and THE THEATER WAS CHARGED. I even called into TES and made a huge stink about it and they insisted that was "theater damage". The bottom line here is TES is literally scaring theaters against from calling in replacement reels for fear of getting charged. This MUST be corrected! Just imagine if someone pays top dollar for a "SuperTHX" or "Kodak ScreenCheck" program at their theater and can't get a good print just because there wasn't enough time to pre-screen it to find that damage. It's very sad and if Mr. Carroll from TES is reading this, all reject reels really should be inspected by someone who really knows what is what, and prints must arrive on Wednesdays to rectify this.

(End of rant for now)

Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 02-09-2001 10:54 AM      Profile for Stefan Scholz   Author's Homepage   Email Stefan Scholz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great Brad, I love the idea, but why should only licensed theatres be checked.
I would love to see stringent, neutral checks on every screen, everywhere, with drastic consequences if things are wrong. Simelar to cars, where not meeting safety inspection requirements with severe failiures would lead to immediate withdrawl of license.
In turn, theatres, not fully filling SMPTE standards, national and international standards are no longer allowed to provide public service, unless it isdone free of charge to the public.
It is just a few standards and practises, and theese are the same for every screen in the world. We do not need a Super - THX, Screen check, TAP or other program to insure theese minimum requirements; any screen, at anytime thast does not fulfill must be punished. Thats may be a little rough, but would help exhibition in general,to be the premier form of, movie reception.
In general, I have learnt to watch DVD on my laptop computer. Xtal clear picture, brilliant and sharp, beautiful, rich virtual AC3 surround and commercial free film presentation.
Bridge on the river Kwai may be an example. The DVD is fantastic, with nice image, perfect sound.
We have get our industry better, surpassing video, and this must be done in general, not just in a few "Super-Sites".

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-09-2001 11:03 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
"Why should only licensed theaters be checked?" Simple...money. Unless the studios would be willing to hire a task force (which would be insanely large) to police things themselves, I don't see any other way than for it to be a "voluntary" service that caring theater owners could sign up for. THX is already established as "quality". If they would make a higher grade certification option, it would really make those theaters stand out and would be well worth the extra cost.

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-09-2001 11:55 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At least in the USA, the level of quality is determined by "The Market". In other words, whatever quality people are willing to pay for will prevail. Poor or shoddy quality generally will lose customers when there is an alternative supplier, superior quality will attract customers.

The government usually steps in only when the public health, safety or welfare are in jeapardy. So food, drugs, airlines, broadcasting, public transportation, hospitals, schools, etc. are usually regulated and inspected in some way. Even then, the cost of doing this and the lack of qualified inspectors limits the coverage and enforcement, so poorly maintained planes do crash, food poisoning outbreaks do occur, radio stations sometimes do cause interference, and some doctors and teachers are unqualified.

IMHO, in a market-driven economy, suppliers (e.g., distributors) are reluctant to antagonize their direct customers (e.g., theatres) on issues of quality, especially when, as Brad notes, fingers of blame can be pointed in both directions.

So, in a market-driven economy, good presentation quality will eventually win customers, and poor presentation quality will lose them. THX and ScreenCheck are tools available to assess and improve presentation quality, but in the end, it is the theatre's responsibility to maintain quality if they want to please customers and stay in business.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 02-09-2001 03:19 PM      Profile for Michael Cunningham   Email Michael Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would agree with you John about quality attracting increased market share except for the unique properties of our product distribution. If you don't like the presentation quality of one theatre in your area you can't just go to another. Only one company in each area is allowed to sell the product (movie) at a time. You will have to go outside of your immediate area in order to see the same film at a different location. In larger cities, this is not really a problem. But in small markets, with only two or three local theatres, this means you will have to leave town to search out a quality presentation. I'm sure there are valid reasons for these distribution rules (ie. avoiding screen saturation, etc.), but it really places our product in a weird situation as far as free market economies go.

-Mike

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-09-2001 07:43 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael:

Note that I did qualify my statement with "...when there is an alternative supplier, superior quality will attract customers." I agree distribution patterns may sometimes give a bad theatre a virtual monopoly in a given area, and then there's no competition to force better quality.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 02-10-2001 10:58 AM      Profile for Stefan Scholz   Author's Homepage   Email Stefan Scholz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know pretty well, that in a market driven environment things are primarily based on profits, than on possibilities. Quality might attract more viewers - in competitive markets, e.g. cities. As Michael pointed out in many areas we do not have competition, competition is reduced to theatre vs. video / AV media. I live in an area which has no competition. There are monopoly operators (Greater Union) in the larger towns, and independent operators in the villages and townships. None of them offer quality presentations. Paying $7.50 for what they offer is not woth the price. I meanwhile consider waiting for the DVD and watching it on my 14" laptop screen the better way.
I have been out to some movies recently. One was called "Unbreakable". The theatre was a 1936 built independent operation. I liked the place, but picture and sound were unacceptable. The sound, with hum, came from a single 15" cone without HF unit from the center, the picture was so dim and blurred, that the emergency exit lights had to be switched off during the show. The color temperature was strong green-yellow. The black guys face was totally blurred and the was no chance to see it. On the other hand the changeovers were perfect.
This is what I was trying to say.
There must bean institution to either tell the owners to immediately correct the problems, or close the place. Charging for such a crappy presentation is fraud. People within that town do not have any alternative, unless they hit the road and ride some 30+ miles, and I can understand them waiting for the AV market release.
Our theatres feature state of the art projection and sound, e.g. we do no longer use "golden" projection lenses. Ours are red or blue. But distribution does not honor quality. We will receive movies at the end of the distribution line, 4 - 6 weeks after they opened.
People just return, to see a film "if it is worth seeing it with picture and sound"...
and distribution still charges first run, as we use digital soundtracks.
There is no way to make profits.

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-10-2001 09:38 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Even without a competing theatre nearby, "home theatres" are becoming more and more competitive for your audience. You need to offer much better quality than anyone can get at home, especially on the screen and in your sound.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Stefan Scholz
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 223
From: Schoenberg, Germany
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 02-11-2001 05:04 AM      Profile for Stefan Scholz   Author's Homepage   Email Stefan Scholz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Right, John.
That's why theatres have to be at least 3 steps ahead of home entertainment. Some are 10 steps behind.
Like an executive from one of the major chains in this country said: "Screening Dolby Digital AC3 and THX trailers is advertising for home entertainment. We have to go beyond that".

Ted Costas
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Hollywood, CA, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 02-13-2001 07:10 PM      Profile for Ted Costas   Email Ted Costas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, Evans, Scott, Stefan, John P.,

Somehow, when the THX letters are mentioned, a lot of the same "issues" raise their heads, time and time again. I must say here that all of you, not just those mentioned above, are, how do I say it, simply fabulous. The fact that you all care enough to share your knowledge with the rest of us is one of the highlights of this industry. It's awesome. And I'm never let down. Keep up the good "word."

Anyway, let's talk re-certs since nobody wants to talk about THX Certified PCs... First of all, there is a distinct difference between "certification" and "re-certification." Certification is ALWAYS done by a THX Technician. That is the initial test of the theatre, and it must be performed by one of our guys. Re-certification is a different story. Unfortunately, with almost 3000 THX Screens out there, it is impossible for us to get out there and visit them on any kind of a timely basis... you do the math. So, with re-certs, we have independent technicians, who have been trained by THX, send us back the data from their re-cert, for us to determine if the screen passes. The Techs doin the re-certs have to be trained in how to use an R2, and how to fill out our re-certification forms. O'kay, so what's to keep them from lying? We have an extensive network of feedback mechanisms, TAP and this web site are among them. We do send TAP Evaluators to do blind spot checks of questionable sites, and /or sites we get complaints about. But that's it. That's how we do it. With the construction boom over, we can focus more on re-certs and actually have our own guys doing some of them... but in the past few years, this was utterly impossible.

I hope that answers a question or two...or am I feeding the coffers of a multitude of further questions...? Either way, I'm cool with it.

Yours, Ted Costas
Manager, THX Theatre Alignment Program

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-13-2001 11:34 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, it's perfectly understandable when the numbers start being added. Ya just gotta remember that "THX" is basically a synonym for "quality" and most of the people here are sticklers for perfection and desire nothing but the best. Kudos as always to the Lucasfilm team.

Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-14-2001 03:15 PM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ted,

I think you'll find that the people that THX is catering to are the hardest ones to please. THX has a very tough job, because the people that actually care about quality are the ones that will even notice or care whether something is THX-certified or not. Those that care about quality, by definition, are the ones who have higher standards of expectation than the general public and are harder to please and impress. Add to that the tendency for such people to be people with computer science, mathematics, or engineering backgrounds who are used to thinking in a very analytical fashion and you've got an even tougher job!

As for myself, my background is computer science and mathematics and so naturally, when something like THX comes along, I try to look at it in terms of "What measurable difference does THX certification make in what I see or hear when watching a movie in a THX-certified theatre or on my home system?" If most people interested in THX try to analyze it that way, then THX will have a tough time.

However, many people simply trust THX without knowing anything about it. If THX-certified CD jewel-boxes became available, some people would probably buy them and put their CDs in them, thinking they'd make their CDs sound better.

The general public seems to think that THX is a sound format. I know this because I hear "Is THX better than DTS?" way too often. Heck, a guy who helped wire the auditoriums at one THX-certified location was talking to me and he said that only Dolby Digital sound systems could be THX certified and that DTS ones could not. The funny thing is that 2 of the auditoriums he wired that were THX certifed had DTS sound! Even technicians don't always understand THX.

Go to Madison Square Mall and as people are entering Suncoast, ask them questions about THX and see what kinds of responses you get! Many swear that DVDs in the "THX format" sound much better than the others. If you ask them if THX DVDs sound better than ones with Dolby Digital sound, they'll usually always say "yes", since they think THX is another type of soundtrack, like DTS.

THX can definitely benefit from the general dumbness of the general public in this area. If the public thinks THX is a sound format that is superior to Dolby Digital or DTS, why change their thoughts? In this sense, George Lucas is a genius. Who else could create such an entity that so many people misunderstand and look up to so much, even if for the wrong reasons? Genius!

Evans A Criswell

Ted Costas
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Hollywood, CA, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 02-27-2001 09:05 PM      Profile for Ted Costas   Email Ted Costas   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Evans,

If people are making comments like "THX is better than DTS", either they are confused about what THX is, or... they are talking about the THX Softball Team... which yes, is much better than DTS.

Yours,
Ted Costas
Manager, THX Theatre Alignment Program

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-27-2001 10:27 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ted,
As much as I like THX I would much pefer a NASA rated PC myself. The best part is that it would have at least three back up PC's in it so you'd never have a failure.
Mark @ GTS



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