Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Will green band-cutting be allowed to continue? (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5 
 
Author Topic: Will green band-cutting be allowed to continue?
Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-15-2003 06:59 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm used to seeing the "evil" green band. But my feelings were hurt when I saw this one:

 -

I guess I just wasn't cool enough. Anyone else out there have the music CD "Rated R" by Queens of the Stone Age? Nifty cover. It copies the early 1970's MPAA ratings design that would appear on the end of films.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 01-15-2003 09:28 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A perfect 2.39 :1. What's the font, Bobby?

 |  IP: Logged

Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-15-2003 11:27 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rating frames are too long and too ugly and there is no reason to subject an audience to a string of four or five of them in a row. One will suffice, but logic dictates that even that is not necessary. The rating of the trailer is of no consequence because the audience knows what the rating is of the feature they are about to watch; we never run trailers that are rated more restrictive than the film. So what's the purpose repeating the rating of each of the previews? Does the MPAA assume that [R] trailers will play with [G] films and thus the need to warn the "g" audience? And even if that were the case, what does the MPAA assume will happen? Do they think the "G" audience run out of the theatre or cover their eyes and ears when warned of an impending [R] trailer? That's ridiculous. The rating information about how the trailer was cut is information for the THEATRE, not the audience. The exhibitor needs to know the rating cut of the trailer so as to avoid playing [R] rated previews at [PG] features. We certainly would never run such a combination (as I would hope that would also be the policy of most reasonable exhibitors). So, again, what's the logic of showing a rating relating to the preview if you only program previews that match or are less restrictive than the rating of the film that is about to be shown?

My take on it is that it is enough for the theatre to be responsible to the intent of the rating system by making sure that they are not mixing previews containing restricted material with feature films that are unrestricted. There is no obligation to tell the audience that you are doing what you're supposed to be doing for each and every preview. If you MUST announce that you are being true to the spirit of the rating system, surely a single snipe (as suggested, from Filmack or Pike or Cinema Concepts) stating that "The following previews are rated by the MPAA as appropriate for screening with the rating level of the feature playing in this theatre." At least a custom snipe will be in focus. Or baring that, just use the rating frame on the first trailer and let that suffice to assure those patrons who might be concerned. Besides, aren't 99% of all previews cut to be [G] level anyway? So what's the compulsion to say it over and over and over?! Exception would be if the audio runs into the band (fairly infrequently as far as I've seen) and then, as John says, you don't need 60 seconds of it; only leave enough so that it doesn't look like a mistake.

And with all due respect to the MPAA, let's consider a modicum of aesthetics in this mix. Repeating the same rating frame over and over gets an F in presentation simply because of the repetition. It gets a second F because the image is so often out of focus and looks like a 6th generation dub. At the very least, if the MPAA wants to promote its name, then at least come up with a decent looking frame and supply the production houses with first generation negs or IPs that will result in something I would want to put up on the screen and not hide in the can marked "ugly kaka -- do not run."

Frank

 |  IP: Logged

Dave Callaghan
Film Handler

Posts: 60
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 01-16-2003 02:32 AM      Profile for Dave Callaghan   Email Dave Callaghan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If all trailers released in the US are printed with the green or red band, this raises an interesting question - who is reediting these trailers for Canada?

In Canada, it seems like half or more of all the trailers that I see have no MPAA band. They are printed with a short trailer leader that ends with a clear numbered frame followed by 3 feet of black and a soundtrack that starts in silence then fades in the appropriate number of frames in advance of the first picture. This practice seems to be independent of the distributor.

The exception in this case is Warner Bros. Warner trailers are routinely printed with no MPAA band and 15 feet - no misprint, a full 10 seconds - of black and silence on the sound track. Warner features also have the 10 seconds of lead-in black and silence before the first frame of the feature. Even if that feature has digital tracks, the black has an analog only track.

This seems to be a policy of Warner having something to do with on-screen advertising, originating sometime before I started to work for Famous Players for about 2 years at one of their Silver City's back around 2000. Famous had to start running a PSA or policy or some sort of trailer (before my time, so I never ran it) because Warner didn't want any of their trailers or features to be immediately preceded by a commercial. (I saw it in a memo.)

The upshot from a Canadian perspective is that someone is already reediting the US versions of the trailers and adding black and silence - printed, not spliced - so they fade in gracefully following the leader with full sound and picture after a 2 second pause.

 |  IP: Logged

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 01-16-2003 04:33 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What some cinemas do here is to place a title at the start of the trailers which reads 'the following trailers are of an appropriate classification for the feature' or words to that effect, followed by the trailers with the BBFC certificate (which appears at the start of each trailer) removed. As a customer I don't have a problem with this, but am glad that I never worked in a cinema which did it, simply because of the extra work it would generate in removing and then rejoining certificates.

I very rarely had soundtracks starting during the certificate; they were usually spliced on. What I frequently got was an end title saying 'Opens 13 February' with the soundtrack continuing through it. If you were showing the film on second run in May, you'd want to cut it off for obvious reasons, but usually couldn't because doing so would crash the track. In those circumstances I usually closed the douser over that title if I could get to the projector at the right moment.

 |  IP: Logged

Matthew Bailey
Master Film Handler

Posts: 461
From: Port Arthur,TX
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 01-16-2003 07:09 AM      Profile for Matthew Bailey   Email Matthew Bailey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As a joke,'The following preview has been UL listed for all audiences
by Underwriter's Laboratories.' is what it should say on the green band. [Big Grin]

 |  IP: Logged

Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 01-16-2003 09:35 AM      Profile for Thomas Procyk   Email Thomas Procyk   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think there was a discussion about this before...

The problem I noticed that someone mentioned about the green bands is that they're pretty much all differnt. Some are dark green with big text, some are light green with normal sized text, some have the text closer to the bottom (Jungle Book 2 in particular), etc. etc.

If the MPAA would supply the studios with a new, universal green band, they might not be so painful to watch.

=TMP=

 |  IP: Logged

Don Bruechert
Mmmmmmmmm, bird!

Posts: 340
From: Manitowoc, WI, USA
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 01-16-2003 10:01 AM      Profile for Don Bruechert   Author's Homepage   Email Don Bruechert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Please pardon the Rookie here, but in our theatre I have been told to leave the green band on the first trailer and remove them from the rest. I had no idea the sound for the picture actually started within the green band, although I have noticed and thought odd that the beginning of our 2 weeks notice trailer seems "abrupt". We also have a policy of never putting trailers above PG on any kind of kids movie. From a customer's perspective, I have always been confused by the ratings bands, so it just felt natural when they told me to only leave on the first one. The issue to me is that the band says "The film advertised has been rated...." and then they go into the trailer. When you have 3 or 4 trailers at the beginning of a film and are not keeping track of them (as a customer) it gets foggy as to whether the rating band applies to the trailer that just played, or the one coming up. "Advertised" means after the fact. If they changed the wording to "The following film has been rated...." or "The film about to be advertised has been rated..." that would make a lot more sense. In my humble opinion if you have a bunch of those green bands on there the customers have no idea which trailer they apply to anyway. From a sound perspective on the other hand, I wouldn't want to butcher any of the dialog or music, so I would be inclined from that reason to leave them on.

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 01-16-2003 10:34 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Don, there is a 20 frame offset between picture and track. If audible sound starts with the first frame of the actual trailer then the sound for it is printed 20 frames ahead of it which puts it adjacent to the green band.

This discussion seems to be concentrating on the band being there to display the trailer's rating (general or restricted). Isn't the real point to display the rating of the film being advertised? Frankly there is too much emphasis on ratings. Ratings are designed for parents to use in deciding whether a film is appropriate for their kids. No one else should ever care one iota about a rating and it would suit me just fine if the ratings were made convenient for parents who seek guidance but not blathered all over everything as though to imply that they should be of interest to others.

Trailers are almost always rated general (green band) yet so many of them come with notes suggesting they not be exhibited before G & PG audiences. One would presume that at some point they will codify this into a third, in-between, level. Anyone want to suggest a color for the band?

As I've said before, the studios could forbid removal of the band if they wished. The trailer is a copyrighted work and they could easily demand it be exhibited intact or not at all.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 01-16-2003 11:33 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I would recommend that bright vivid yellow that was used in the Stuart Little 2 trailer. Of course we would probably end up with a dark blah grungy yellow.

 |  IP: Logged

Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 01-16-2003 12:42 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve,

I figured you would pick up the 2.39:1 ratio thing on that little JPEG doodle (which is why I went to the trouble of getting it right). The evil green band fonts are Helvetica 65 Medium and Helvetica 95 Black. I scanned in a film frame as a guide to get the type and positioning correct.

People complain about the green color, but I don't really mind it all that much. I agree with others about the possible drawbacks of changing the MPAA band to another color. Banana yellow would look really sick in a theater with dim projection.

One thing's for sure. The MPAA Red band on R-rated previews is downright scary. For some reason it makes me think "tornado warning."

 |  IP: Logged

Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 01-16-2003 01:42 PM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BTW the company I worked for ended up changing the policy because (from what I heard) one studio was upset about it. I'm surprised to hear AMC is still doing it though.

 |  IP: Logged

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-16-2003 01:55 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So why are there so many different shades of green? Are the various "green band" tags derived from different sources? Is it an issue of film stock or lab work at the intermediate or release print stage? Is it a timing issue with the prints (why can't the MPAA say, for example, "time the ratings band at 31/31/31" or something?)?

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 01-16-2003 02:33 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Because every printer is different even if you supplied identical negatives you would need different printer lights just to get the same results.

I would guess that CARA/MPAA does not supply a master but simply describes what it's supposed to look like.

If we're proposing changes I like the idea of arrows pointing to 5% inboard of the corners to show image cutoff or misframing. Or make it 10% to allow for printer direction slop combined with nominal cutoff. To actually put an explanation on there ("If you can't see these arrows you aren't seeing the whole picture") would be nice but would probably piss off too many exhibitors and cause more of them to lop off the bands. But word could circulate among the cognoscenti that this is a way to check on the theatre.

 |  IP: Logged

Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 01-16-2003 04:51 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While we're at it, why not make the 'new color' clear/white so that the text "If the edges are fuzzy, this theatre sucks even more." could be included after the 'arrow' text. [Smile]

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.