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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: Kollmorgen lenses
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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999
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posted 02-22-2001 03:32 PM
Actually, the idea of a test film on the beginning is a good one, but that test film (the 35PA) is painstakingly printed on very accurately punched stock from an original. Prints for theaters are 2 or 3 generations removed, using duplicating machines that run at high speed, using film stock that is not punched as accurately.Although, to answer your real question, many theaters are cheap, plain and simple. I don't mean to be sarcastic, but that's usually the reason. Many times the public will accept lower quality if they don't know better, or there no other theater close by. In addition to focus, different lamps, lenses, screen types will change the color temptature, requiring a 3-color temp meter (very expensive, $20,000 last time I looked.) There are some places that do care, but it takes money, and theaters have always been a 'feast-or-famine biz' kind of biz. I do feel that printing a simple version of a test/alignment film onto the heads or tails (just like the "color-test-girl") would be very beneficial, but no one liked my idea when I suggested it awhile ago (sniff-sniff!) I did make a proposed pattern, if anyone wants to see it.
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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler
Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 02-22-2001 04:15 PM
HiI am not suggesting that a full blown projector test image be printed on the head of the film. I was just thinking of a simple focus test and maybe a lens test. In the machinist world you have "go" and "no go" gauges. I am sure the resolution of the print film would support a diffraction pattern that would spell out "go" in focus and "no go" in a defocus condition. Just a thought. I am using a Kollomorgen BX241 3.75 inch lens in my system. The same lens listed in the beginning of the post. I am also using a Kollomorgen-ISCO KA298 Anamorphic. Both together have been opticl bench tested at about 125 l/mm at 15 ft. Not bad for an old system and at 15 ft. I should retest it. At the time only interested in how close I could get the anamorphic to focus and not it's maximum resolution. Larry
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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-22-2001 06:46 PM
Larry: I'm not surprised that you got 115 lp/mm on an optical bench. But when you put that old lens in a projector, it doesn't handle the heat-deformed film image as well as a modern lens, especially at the edges of the image. It likely has a much higher level of optical flare than a modern multi-coated lens. The best system test available today is the SMPTE 35-PA (RP-40) Projector Alignment Film, which puts the entire projection system through its paces for resolution, chromatic aberration, focus uniformity, steadiness, travel ghost, geometric distortion, and image size.------------------ John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging Eastman Kodak Company Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419 Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243 E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler
Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 02-22-2001 07:23 PM
Yes, I am sure resolution readings would change with a test in the other direction. My ony reason for the optical bench test is to see just exactly how close I could focus the anamorphic. Actually, I did get to 12.5 ft before resolution fell off a cliff. I didn't check it the other way. I am sure these lenses are distance dependent and have a peak resolution distance. The Kollmorgen ISCO KA 298 German made anamorphic was pulled out of a newer bankrupt theater. It does say ISCO on it. Does anyone know the history on this optic? It looks to me that Kollmorgen and ISCO at least had one lens in common. I do think that a simple focus test or maybe a Phase Contrast target using the words "go" and "no go" could be done. It would not take any more technology then the digital sound timing data located on the edge of the film. It would be more or less using a Moire pattern to check focus and lens quality. I guess I am sort of into Moire patterns. They are kind of fun to play around with. I notice that several people on the net have the newer ISCO MC lenses for sale for about $200 each. I would like to get down to about 3 inches focal length. I just might buy one of these. Larry
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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 02-22-2001 08:29 PM
Well, those old Kollmorgan lenses make excellent magnifying glasses...when you use one of those to inspect film path around the scanner drum and slit lense target while the film is running, you can verify errors very easily! Also, you can use them to read the fine print on perscription bottles! (Us old foggies need that....) You can easily see that steel sliver you ran into your thumb so you can yank it out with a wire cutter, blah blah blah..., and if you are not well-endowed, they can be very handy in the restroom. (Ahem) 
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-24-2001 09:03 AM
The Schneider test film is too black overall. Part of what you are testing is the heat absorbtion of the film.Now I too have issues with 35-PA not being nearly consistant enough. Steve ------------------ "Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-24-2001 05:27 PM
Mark,The problem is that it isn't representative of the typical frame...it is too black. Sure it will put the optical system through it's paces and give you more information than 35-PA in some respects, but isn't as good in others. One of the nice features with it is the grid lines to see geometric distortions caused by the lens and keystone. (SMPTE used to produce a film called 35-FA that had a better grid and was more of a neutral gray). On your Magnacom tests...have you tried different vintages? For instance, ISCO has two different versions now (Type S and Type-L) that replaced the older Magna-com 65. Schneider still has theirs. Then there are the old Kollmorgan Magna Coms. A current magnacom or Ulta-Star Zoom Converter (as they are now called) can be a dynamite lens in the proper application. Steve ------------------ "Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-24-2001 07:26 PM
So then you haven't tested the new ISCO "zoom converters" aka Magna-coms? And I mean new...at least the Type "S" looks to be of a new design in that the front of it is significantly larger than the magna coms of yesteryear. As I said before, in the right application, Magna-Coms can be wonderful. Take, for instance, projecting onto a Cinerama Curve screen...what distortion? The picture will start to square up more so than with a conventional lens...sure the sides will pincushion a bit but this is less noticable than the barrel distortion of a conventional lens on horizon lines. In fact, the Zoom Converters are nice on curved screens in general where the radius is less than throw. As to Schneider's Variable Primes...The claim is that they offer a varible focal length without any of the downfalls of traditional zoom attachments. In fact, Dwight wanted to have the front of the lens say something to the effect of " not a zoom, not a magnacom!" Hence the "variable prime" designator to make it sound somewhat better. Personally, I think they are just too expensive for what they offer, that is the bare minimum of cropping. Now that Schneider and ISCO offer the shorter focal lengths in 2.5mm increments, what is the point? The fringe area caused by the aperture plate spacing from the film plane has a greater effect than the 1mm of focal length difference! Well those are my opinions and observations. Steve ------------------ "Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
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