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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » "Cinema Paradiso" and Cinemecchanica in Italy... (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: "Cinema Paradiso" and Cinemecchanica in Italy...
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-15-2001 10:40 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The first projector in Paridisio was either a Fedi or Micron as it had a distinct barrel shutter

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-15-2001 12:26 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay, folks, here's a capture of the first projector. The scene is "La Cabina" and is at 0:34:46.

As for the second projector, the only good closeup I could find quickly was when they were moving it to the Arena for the summer. The upper magazine was removed, so there was no nameplate. Sorry for the blur, the cart was moving across the screen as the camera was zooming. "La Lettera" at 1:29:12.



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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-15-2001 12:35 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well the top one defintely says Prevost
The bottom one looks a bit like a V4 but the framer that is above the gate is missing and the site box seems more fedi

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Joe Schmidt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-15-2001 03:40 PM      Profile for Joe Schmidt   Email Joe Schmidt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Many thanks to all for the many informative replies on this thread. Judging from our assorted guesstimates on what make the "early" projector was this has been a "Stump the Experts" as well!

Here, lifted from IMDB are some of the dvd details:

Aspect Ratio(s): Widescreen anamorphic - 1.66:1

A new one on me. I didn't know there is such a thing as widescreen anamorphic @1.66! Guess I've been a Wetired Lunatic too long. <g>

Discographic Information:
DVD Encoding: Region 1
Layers: Single
Available Audio Tracks:
Italian (Dolby Digital 2.0 Stereo), Italian
(Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono), English (Dubbed) (Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono)

Available subtitles: English, Spanish, French, Italian

This has been on my list of dvds to acquire but if a full director's cut reissue is pending I'll hold and wait for the dvd of that. I think dvd's are generally quite overpriced considering the cost of mfg. one is less than a vhs tape; but it might be just a matter of being patient and waiting as I expect the coming imploding collapse of the economy [caused by the doubling/tripling + of winter heating bills wiping out all discretionary spending capabilities of millions of families -- i.e. the utility bills gobble up ALL of the money] will bring most dvd prices down to 1/2 or less of what they are now.

In the early days of pre-recorded VHS tapes the prices were astronomical and the quality abysmal. Collectors like myself building huge libraries quickly learned that pristine tapes could be had by recording direct off-satellite to good blank stock, such as Maxell HGX-Gold; and so I have only a tiny handful of commercial VHS tapes.

As an aside, DVD players are selling like hotcakes in Billings due to the carmike cinemas disaster. Like drugs, the word around is "Just Say NO -- Don't Go!!!" Our local costco outlet which offers highly competitive dvd prices with no "shipping" add-ons, is hard pressed to keep recent titles in stock and video rental stores with growing dvd libraries are quite busy. I can't understand how DirecTV thinks a payperview price of $3.99 can possibly compete with 3-day dvd @$2.97; plus you can run off a tape. People do this all the time and swap tapes around; a VHS blank film is under a dollar. PPV on cable is $5 a pop. [!]

But who are we to fathom the machinations of the all-Omnipotent Corporate-HQ mindset.

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Mitchell Cope
Master Film Handler

Posts: 256
From: Overland Park, KS, United States
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-15-2001 05:07 PM      Profile for Mitchell Cope   Email Mitchell Cope   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe,

I hate to burst your bubble, but DVD prices may be going up. Hollywood is real happy with the existing pricing on DVD, but Blockbuster Video is not. BV is putting pressure on Hollywood to raise those prices so that people will first rent before buying. BV has the clout (if you haven't noticed) because they're paying rental fees to the studios in exchange for cheaper DVDs and tapes in the stores. All these little deals are running all the Mom and Pop outfits out of business. It wasn't too long ago you could rent a VHS video for a $1 at the supermarket. The convenience of BV, not necessarily a low price, and these little deals are giving BV a nice little monopoly type situation.

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Joe Schmidt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-16-2001 12:39 AM      Profile for Joe Schmidt   Email Joe Schmidt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sure, Mitch, but is the CONSUMER happy, and will it buy at even higher prices?

Well, they can all do whatever they want on the dvd prices, this consumer won't be buying. Not a necessity of life, you know! As always, Greed has to work its way thru the system.

Besides pay-per-view, a limited-length window, competition for dvd is in the 35 or so movie channels on satellite which more or less are mostly showing reruns of all the same recent features. There's more variety on the old-movie channels.

The studios eventually discovered with vhs tapes that after the quality was improved and prices drastically reduced, sales went up dramatically. The same will happen with dvd. And those with the technical expertise CAN dub them to vhs very successfully right now.

Ignoring yet another problem, do we really want to? The critics are saying the last year has produced the worst crop of movies in decades. Amen!



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Peter Berrett
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-16-2001 04:49 AM      Profile for Peter Berrett   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Berrett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

Cinema Paradiso is a classic film with an excellent performance by veteran French Actor Phillipe Noiret (by the way see Grosse Fatigue' with Michel Blanc & Phillipe Noiret - another classic film but for different reasons).

I was surprised to hear my french teacher tell me recently that all English films are dubbed into French in France. Ditto for Italy where the dubbing is of a very high standard.

Unfortunately I can't say I have ever seen a film where the dubbing into English was very good. In fact the efforts I have seen & heard thus far have put me off dubbing completely. I think the problem is that the outfits that do the dubbing do so on a shoestring budget. (Note however that most foreign films I watch are comedies). To cut costs they have one person do several voices and as you would guess the soundtrack ends of sounding like a whole series of 'funny voices' a la Mel Blanc. If Mel Blanc had been doing the dubbing the soundtrack might have been tolerable however the results are just dreadful. One might almost be tempted to say that Hollywood deliberately destroys the soundtrack to ensure that the film is not commercially successful.

THese days I will not watch a dubbed film or video. I insist on subtitles which is the only way to guarantee that some cut price editing company has not destroyed the film.

Incidentally I would be interested to hear how American audiences view foreign films. Is there much interest these days? I understand that in the 70s interest in foreign films was much higher than at present which is a shame as the French in particular do make many good films. La Cage Aux Folles is still one of my favourite films.

Here's hoping we see a resurgence in interest in good european films but pleeeeeez ... no dubbing ok?

cheers Peter


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Bill Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 162
From: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-16-2001 03:09 PM      Profile for Bill Carter   Email Bill Carter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have seen a few films that were very well dubbed. "Das Boot" comes to mind. But "Cinema Paradiso" has to be one of the worst dubbed versions I've heard. The film is one of my favorites, but the voices used (especially Toto as a small boy) sound like something out of a cartoon.

The "director's cut" has been around on VHS, but is a little hard to find. I recall it being a half-hour or so longer than the US version.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 04-16-2001 04:37 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stefan - are you sure that 6,000ft reels of nitrate were regularly shown in Italy? That sounds like suicide to me. In the UK the 1921 Films Act specified a limit of 1,000ft per reel. By the 1956 act this had become 2,000ft (presumably a small number of nitrate prints were still in circulation at that stage). I guess that running 'double' reels became legal at some point during the intervening 35 years, though (as yet) I haven't been able to find out when.

The one cinema I know of in the UK which still regularly projects nitrate (the National Film and Television Archive's preview theatre) has a limit of 1,000ft reels and will split 'doubles' if necessary. The National Film Theatre used to, but I was recently told that they had to remove their fire-resistant spoolboxes in order to fit digital sound readers.

I've seen a 100ft roll of nitrate burn, the thought of 6,000ft going up is terrifying.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-16-2001 08:35 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just a reminder of Rick Shamel's excellent videos of three different kinds of nitrate fire in the "Videos" section of Film-Tech.

I agree, 6000 feet of nitrate in one roll is asking for disaster.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Philippe Laude
Film Handler

Posts: 79
From: Longueville, Belgium
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 04-18-2001 04:59 AM      Profile for Philippe Laude   Email Philippe Laude   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Antonio (and others),
incidentally I will play Cinema paradiso in my private screening room next week.
I just can't wait. I've only seen it partially on television.
The version I'll play is dubbed in french, which may seem a crime for Italians, but belgian people know very well Philippe Noiret's voice and would barely hear him speaking Italian with an alien voice!

------------------

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Joe Schmidt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-18-2001 05:55 AM      Profile for Joe Schmidt   Email Joe Schmidt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, in Cinema Paradiso there was a nitrate fire, it burned down the theatre and the poor projectionist lost his eyesight trying to fight the fire -- which should NEVER be attempted. (Let it burn, drop the fire shutters and GET OUT.) As much as I love this film this is always very upsetting to me and I wish the story had been told differently.

Something I used to do occasionally to teach people of the dangers of nitrate was unwind a length from an old junk reel and stretch it out across a parking lot area with a rock on each end, then light one end: whooooooosh!

Very Frightening. John P -- have you ever done a demo like this?

As to nitrate projection, it may be reasonably safe IF in good condition, IF the projector has a water-cooled gate, IF there is a heat shield between the lamphouse & the proj, and IF the light source is somewhat low intensity like under 1KW. A lot of IF's but a little preview screening room would meet them.

I worry about the UCLA archive's print of Phantom/Opera of 1943, it really shouldn't be projected any more but used for a television master / new internegative / and otherwise held in retirement. Irreplaceable.



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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-19-2001 02:26 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, when I first saw the movie and it came to the part where the proj. caught on fire and Alfredo went to open the upper magazine I just went, "NNNOOOOoooo!!!"

I say opening the door is what spread the fire. The way I understand thing is that if he left the door shut the fire would burn itself out in a while. Sure the projector would be trashed but the fire wouldn't have spread, or at least it might have been kept down to a "containable" level.

Anyway, if it hadn't been for that there wouldn't be a whole 2nd half of the movie, would there?

PS: I used to keep an 8 X 10 picture of Alfredo on the wall in "my" booth. In Pennsylvania we had to keep a copy of our projectionist license posted in a "conspicuous place". I used to keep the license copy(s) inside the frame with the picture. Nobody ever understood the reference, although I tried to explain it to people several times.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-19-2001 11:15 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Randy --- a nitrate fire will burn even with the magazine door closed.

Remember what Joe Schmidt said: "...trying to fight the fire -- which should NEVER be attempted. (Let it burn, drop the fire shutters and GET OUT)." Losing a roll of film or damaging the equipment isn't worth risking your life or that of the audience.


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-19-2001 03:54 PM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Cinema Paradiso - The Special Edition had a theatrical release in England I think 5 years ago. The same version on video followed in a limited edition box set with a book which I have. The previously unseen full length version is in widescreen ratio with English subtitles. The additional footage is 50 minutes making the total running time 167 minutes.

To quote from the video case "Cinema Paradiso - The Special Edition" continues where the original ended and audiences will finally discover what became of Toto's first true love.

Well worth seeing if you can obtain a copy, or better still in a cinema.

My first posting. I find Film-Tech extremely interesting and informative. I run a small country cinema, perhaps I should do a posting with the equipment details which is very old and most reliable. Almost 50 years in the trade and still willing to learn and listen to others.

Bernard.

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