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Topic: What is Film-Guard?

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-18-2001 09:20 AM

I must come out on the side of PTRs are not for theatres. They load up far too quickly and tend to redistribute the dirt all over the film.

As to cleaning them, nothing beats masking tape that I have found...pretend you are shinning shows with some 2" wide tape and the rollers will come clean as new...and now drying time.

At best PTRs can be used to keep dirt from increasing but for most theatres that isn't enough, with polyester prints the gate will cause the print to flake off yet more, it is a losing battle.

I keep a set of fresh PTRs for running EK prints though.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 05-18-2001 10:43 AM

Cleaning PTR's with adhesive tape can be fast and effective, as washing in water and drying can take time. But only use tape that has low-stick adhesive that doesn't leave a sticky residue on the PTR, and doesn't rip pieces of soft polyurethane from the PTR surface. It's still a good idea to occasionally use mild dishwashing soap and water to clean the PTRs to remove any oily deposits they pick up. In a theatre environment, a good schedule might be to use tape during the day's runs, and wash and dry the rollers overnight.

Here is a tape that is useful for this application:

3M White Paper Tape #256
An ideal graphic design and general purpose artist tape. The surface of this tape is smooth and easy to
write on with pen, marker or pencil, and pencil marks are completely erasable. It adheres well but has a
low-tack adhesive, making it easily repositionable if necessary. Use it for hinging, holding boards to
tables, corrections, silhouetting, mounting, etc. The opaque surface is great for covering errors, and the
non-glare backing is ideal for photographic applications.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-18-2001 11:11 AM

I have found 3M packing tape the best method of cleaing the rollers.
Some labs use sticky tape rollers to clean film or a web of tape cleaing the off line side of the PTR continously

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-18-2001 08:33 PM

What ever happened to those sticky rollers that were made in Canada? I remember them about 10 or more years ago. They were quite gooey but worked really well till they completely filled up with crud. The interesting thing was that they seemed to gobble up the dirt and take it underneath the surface.
Mark @ GTS

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-18-2001 08:35 PM

I was told that the process actually slightly melted the base side of the film to remove scratches and dirt and then was re-polished again before being wound up. I know that sounds kinda far fetched but I wonder if its true.
Mark @ GTS

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-18-2001 10:18 PM

Mark:

I believe you are referring to the "Dryper" rollers. I was never really impressed with them either.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 05-19-2001 07:04 AM

The "Dry Pur" rollers used a silicone putty as the "sticky" media to pick off the dirt particles. The dirt would eventually migrate into the putty, to be "gobbled up". When the putty filled with dirt, it needed to be replaced. Unfortunately, the putty sometimes chipped off and stuck to the film, and needed to be wrapped with a plastic strip between uses to keep its shape during the "rejuvenation" cycle where the dirt migrated into the putty. I do not recall any claims of scratch healing properties.

The Dry Pur rollers were sold by Restoration Film House in Belleville, Ontario, Canada.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-19-2001 09:33 AM

I usually found them the most effective as long as they got covered up or they would dry out.
They also controlled static and were also good at cleaning up oil motle.
The one thing is they cannot be used on a photoguarded print as it will literally glue itself to the roller

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Bill Langfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 280
From: Prospect, NSW, Australia
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-19-2001 01:23 PM

FILMGUARD - Supply of.

We are intersted in, who can/will
will import or ship FILMGUARD to
Australia and how much for ??

A sample bottle to Hoyts Corporation,
Greater Union/BC&C or Village/Roadshow
WILL believe me be a wise thing to do for who ever it that is selling the stuff.

We have no real reason to use
FILMGUARD, however............

Film Tech has for a long long time recommended this product, yet there seems
to be a problem getting the product.

Regards Bill.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-19-2001 01:37 PM

Contact Ron or Dave at Cinema Products International.

ron@cinprod.com
or
dave@cinprod.com

They are the distrubitor and can work with you on whatever you need.

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-20-2001 10:10 AM

I have been using PTR cleaning rollers for over a year now, and I find they are a satisfactory and safe method for keeping prints clean, mostly first run and occasional second run. And I wouldn't be without them when a couple of prints have shedded. A particularly dirty copy cleaned up very well by running through to myself and stopping every 15 minutes to clean the rollers. There is of course the costly SPECO cleaner which PTR rollers can be changed whilst running dirty film.

I use the shiny rollers, a neighbouring cinema prefers the matte type claiming they could be more efficient ? For the past few months after washing and drying, I now wipe over the PTRs with Isopropyl Alcohol, which brings them back to as good as new, and they are always nice and sticky every time, with no deterioration (that I know of).

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 05-20-2001 02:30 PM

Brad,

I'm now projecting one of the "filmguarded" Dolby trailer. Really, quality is very good. Only big scratches are already there. Dirty and little scratches are gone!!
I saw that Film Guard is not uniform on print. I've clean the print several times with a clean cloth after film guard (to have just a little coating of product) but when the print rewind, next time film guard is no more uniform on print. However It seems that it canno be seen on screen. Is it normal? (I really don't know if I was clear!!)

Bye
Antonio

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Bill Langfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 280
From: Prospect, NSW, Australia
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 05-20-2001 04:35 PM

Brad, I thank you so much for you replies.
(Both on the forum and pvt email - how you find the time is beyond me!!)

In regard to Filmguard, Im not personally
requesting sample bottles.

I'm just saying that the BIG three
cinema chains in Australia DONT use it
and there might be be a market for it here.
For whoever it is who makes the stuff.

I often post at 4am (local) very tired.
So excuse any dumb things said, by me!!

Bill.

TO ALL
About PTR's like I said before FORGET THEM.
Vacuum your bio box(s) every night.

AND get one of those static mops, they suck up every dead skin flake and LOSS OF HAIR from your OLD projectionists (me)!!!!

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-20-2001 04:59 PM

Antonio, the best way to let FG smooth itself out is just to let it do it's own thing. During normal takeup, it will even itself out through use. Even though it appears physically on the film as streaks, it is constantly being "moved around" on the print with every playing. As you have noted, nothing appears on screen from it.

Bill, no problem. CPI is working on an Australian dealer right now. In the interim, have anyone who is interested contact CPI directly for samples or dealership.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 05-20-2001 07:38 PM

Bill,

I was serious about coming out to the Ritz to see it at work. It's again done wonders to our latest crop of used prints...this week's is '15 Minutes' Thursday and Friday without FG. Cruddy 2nd hand print...

Saturday and more so Sunday...like new.

You will never think you need this stuff until you see the results.

If you want, Michael can give you my mobile number. Give me a call and we'll work something out.

John

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Children really brighten up your life...they never turn off lights.

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