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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Pearl Harbor Dye Transfer (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Author Topic: Pearl Harbor Dye Transfer
John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 05-26-2001 05:15 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Quite frankly, I would bet that Technicolor has lost at least some interest in dye-transfer and is concentrating on their e-projector and distribution system. If, generally, people will accept e-projector quality, (which is not quite as good as regular 35mm prints) why bother with imbibtion (sp?) printing? Because Technicolor doesn’t have a totally setup production line for dye-transfer, it is probably still more expensive. Besides, the studios/distributors would rather be able to send the final reels (for printing) at the last minute.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-26-2001 06:57 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Isn't the film-scanning process for DLP projection a time-consuming one, however?

In any case, it seems that dye-transfer printing and DLP/whatever are really two totally different products aimed at two totally different ends of the market. Dye transfer seems like a sort of "high end" premium product intended to show off the best picture quality possible with 35mm film (and sound quality too, in the case of old prints...the new IB prints that I have seen have had substandard sound quality), while DLP seems to be driven more by cost and the "lowest common denominator" approach.

If John W. is correct (and he probably is), then this change in thinking is pretty sad, and maybe not the best business decision, either. Dye-transfer is something that can be sold _now_ and can make money _now_, while DLP/etc. is something that might or might not happen soon and seems like much more of a financial gamble, particularly since any success with DLP would probably have some negative implications to other aspects of Technicolor's business (film printing and distribution) which would offset any competitive advantage to be obtained with DLP.

There's no doubt in my mind that digital projection will become commonplace at some point, and if I were a film lab I would definitely be doing research and development toward that end, but I think that they're being a bit naive if Technicolor thinks that this will happen so quickly that there is no point in trying to use their existing proprietary technology for profit over the next few years. Especially considering that digital projection technology is evolving so rapidly, the poor financial health of the industry, the fact that there is currently _no_ distribution model for "digital cinema" nor is there likely to be one for some time, and the fact that even a theatre with lots of money and a fetish for all things "digital" can't even purchase a DLP setup outright at this point.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-26-2001 08:53 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, I don't know the pricing of dye transfer prints relative to normal release prints. I suspect it must come down somewhat with more prints, since the matrices are a fixed added cost whether you make one print or a few hundred.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 05-26-2001 09:02 PM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 
My my, I just played a scope trailer of Pearl Harbor tonight on my home theater system. Does it look good. Better then anything so far.

I would say image quality looks twice as good then anything I have played to date.

I am using a low time Devry XD with a Super Cinelux lens on a 5x12 screen.

Larry


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Michael Barry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 584
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 05-26-2001 10:49 PM      Profile for Michael Barry   Email Michael Barry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Larry: I have also noticed that for some reason, Bruckheimer's films appear much sharper than the majority of other films, especially those by Michael Bay. Perhaps more care is taken in post to ensure this; I think it may have to do with the filtration and kind of lighting that's used (Bruckheimer films take on a 'bronzed' and/or 'high-tech' look - certainly lots of 'hot' colors and very gel/color filter intensive) and the talents of DP John Schwartzman, ASC are undeniable - he is surely a technical wizard.

Has anyone else noticed this and if so, could they shed some more light on it? (bad cinematography pun not intended).

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 05-27-2001 12:32 AM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw This film tonight. all I can say is if you havent already seen this film GET OFF YOUR ASS AND SEE IT. aside from a few interpositive scratches, a lab splice, and watching half out of focus, This is the best movie I have seen in a while. nice tight grain and seemless sound mixing. I havent been glued to the screen like that since "Twister".

Josh

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-27-2001 12:59 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You liked Twister? I thought the first trailer was good. One of the first Dolby Digital trailers. When it switched out of mono (what we ran trailers in at the time) and into SRD and the narrator's voice came on, people were amazed. Yes, just at the quality of the voice! The sound in the rest of the trailer was great, too. Too bad the movie wasn't.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-27-2001 06:18 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kodak VISION Premier Color Print Film 2393 has more silver and coupler, giving an extended "upper scale" that enhances the richness of the shadows and brightens the saturated colors:
Technical Data for 2393
Technical Data for 2383

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Larry Myers
Master Film Handler

Posts: 371
From: Herndon, VA, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 05-27-2001 09:57 AM      Profile for Larry Myers         Edit/Delete Post 

I have found that many trailers are far better then the movie. They seem to contain the best scenes. Would the Pearl Harbor trailer be printed on the Vision stock?

I also notice that the trailers will vary greatly in image quality. This is far more noticable using the Schneider Super Cinelux lens. With this lens, the Pearl Harbor trailer is grainless. About the same as you would expect on 70mm. It reminds me of the grain quality of reissued Lawrence of Arabia.

Some of my trailers, the grain is very noticable as if it was shot on 16mm. If I go back to the Kollmorgen lens, the grain is not as noticable. Something to be said for a lower quality lens.

From what I see, there are so many inputs to the final presentation image quality that the goal of "Film Done Right" may only exist in one out of 10 films. Even at that, it may exist in as little as 1 out of 5 theaters.

Larry

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Sean Weitzel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Vacaville, CA (1790 miles west of Rockwall)
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-27-2001 01:32 PM      Profile for Sean Weitzel   Email Sean Weitzel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jeff Joseph posted this on his 35mmforum.com:

=-=-=-=-=-=-
Technicolor will only confirm 6 prints at this point (although a few more may have been struck). 3 are in New York; sorry, don't know the theaters. 3 are in Los Angeles:
General Cinema Beverly Connection; don't know which theater
Cineplex Odeon Century City; Theatre number one
AMC Santa Monica; don't know which theater

If you have any other info, please email me at: sabucat@sabucat.com

Thanks,

Jeff Joseph
SabuCat Productions http://www.sabucat.com


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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-27-2001 05:00 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Pearl Harbor trailer is on 2383. I'm looking at the final version right now, but I assume that all 3 (?) versions were done on the same stock...

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-27-2001 09:43 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As with the feature, the distributor chooses which stock to use for the trailers. Best way to tell whether it is 2383 or 2393 is to look at the magenta-colored edge ID that Kodak prints on every roll.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Edwin Graf Diemer
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Red Bank, NJ, USA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 05-28-2001 09:12 PM      Profile for Edwin Graf Diemer   Email Edwin Graf Diemer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I caught "Pearl" at the IMAX theater in the UA King Of Prussia Stadium 16 [PA] complex on Saturday. I wonder if they are dropping IMAX-there used to be a IMAX logo by the inside doors for that theater, but I noticed it was gone. The ads mentioned "Specially Enhanced 35mm Presentation---On The Giant 5-Story Screen". Whatever they were using, it looked great-the image was shown on the center of the screen, and not wider than it could be pushed without losing focus. Very tight grain as well!

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-28-2001 09:17 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Who owns the theatre?
most of the commercial IMAX theatres have some very strict rules re 35mm presentations

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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-29-2001 12:03 AM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This film was shot in anamorphic (as opposed to Super 35) and I think this accounts for some of the quality difference.

The regular run print I made up was on 2383. The stunning EKs were on 2393, but the regular prints don't seem too shabby either.

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