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Author Topic: Voices in the surround channel
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-21-2001 01:10 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with most of steves comments except that the emulators are far better than no SR. Also Dolby's own 222SR/A card is an emulation
The panastereo and the Ultrastereo SR is very good. And face it a lot of people would not complain about the copycat smart cards. In fact there 2 band system address's the problem of high end effectively in a brute force fashion. Bottom line some for of SR playback is manditory

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-21-2001 01:37 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gord,

I never stated that some form of SR emulation isn't better than no SR. Heck, take to the absurd extreme...Dolby-A is an SR emulation! I personally have heard very few good SR emulations. Dolby's CP-650 hasn't thown up any red-flags on my listening tests and I was prepaired to be more skeptical on that one (digital emulation and all). I have not given it as much listening as I would like to make a definative statement though. The same goes for the Pana CM-353...I have heard good results but the total time I have listened to an optical track with it can be measured in minutes, not even hours so I will reserve judgement.

As to the others you have mentioned...while better than nothing, I guess, entirely not good enough in my opinion. To the point, I feel, the patron is being ripped off. This industry doesn't need low-end systems out there. Home theatres already beat them.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-21-2001 03:33 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a feeling that budget is a major concern in this location.

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Mat Overton
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Oct 2001


 - posted 10-21-2001 03:53 PM      Profile for Mat Overton   Author's Homepage   Email Mat Overton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Very true. And SR is next on the upgrade list.... along with decent surrounds...... I think that half the issue here is that we don't have the best surround speakers in the world, but we have to make do with what we do have. Our venue also has poor acoustics, and there's not a lot we can do about that. We don't run in a purpose built theatre, it's not even our venue..... it belongs to the university. I wouldn't be surprised if the main issue was sound reflecting off the back wall of the auditorium.

I know that SR soundtracks will never sound brilliant in Dolby A, but what I meant was that they sound as good as they realistically can do!

What concerns me is that this posting has been brought to the attention of our installers by a reader of this forum, and suggests that they did not install the system properly. My posting here is to reassure readers that they carried out the Dolby install as professionally as possible, despite dealing with our equipment that doesn't quite live up to a professional standard.

At least we are making the effort to upgrade, I can only do it one step at a time.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-21-2001 04:28 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For our curiosity what is the processor involved and would it be possible for you to list the booths equipment

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-21-2001 07:46 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mat,

Believe it or not, I got that impression from your post (doing as well as can be done). My only real point was that A can not do well with SR soundtracks...it, by design, has to fail in the decoding department which will cause 2:4 mistracking as well.

Gord, since the processor choices that started this thread were the CP-45 and CP-55...one has to presume it is the CP-55 since the CP-45 has Dolby SR out of the box (albiet the dreaded Cat. 222 SR/A).

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Neil Chue Hong
Film Handler

Posts: 19
From: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-22-2001 05:14 AM      Profile for Neil Chue Hong   Author's Homepage   Email Neil Chue Hong   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Mat!

is your sound system the same one you had at the Sheffield Golden Anniversary? Or have you been upgrading since then?

As you say, your venue isn't brilliant for acoustics - from what I remember, it's great for stage presence, but manages to completely overegg the surround unless you're sitting exactly in the right place.

That was a great get together you organised though - hope to see you again at some point!

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Mat Overton
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Oct 2001


 - posted 10-22-2001 07:07 AM      Profile for Mat Overton   Author's Homepage   Email Mat Overton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes it is a 55, running with a Westar projector and forward scan laser reader.

No Neil it's fortunatly not the same sound system! But I do thinkl you're confused, it's Bradford not sheffield, we didn't have surround when we held the BFFS student group conference. But anyway, hope to see you at the Warick conference!

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Neil Chue Hong
Film Handler

Posts: 19
From: Edinburgh, Scotland, UK
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 10-22-2001 07:14 AM      Profile for Neil Chue Hong   Author's Homepage   Email Neil Chue Hong   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ack - you're right!

The melon on top o' me head is causing my brain to melt...
Is it a Westar 7000? If so, do you have any manuals for it?

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Mat Overton
Film Handler

Posts: 4
From: West Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Oct 2001


 - posted 10-22-2001 07:18 AM      Profile for Mat Overton   Author's Homepage   Email Mat Overton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nope.... 2001

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 10-22-2001 01:10 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon,

There is a kit list on the Bradford Uni Film Soc's site, the link is in Michael's original post.

I deal with a lot of University Film Societies, and budget is always a major constraint. Also problems with not having a purpose built venue, which leads to poor sight lines, acoustics, University Buildings Dept not allowing surrounds to be fixed to the wall, etc, etc. The film socs have a pretty tough time of it!

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 10-22-2001 03:25 PM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding the comment made about HF response on forward scan soundheads:

The Audio Cine Laser mentioned earlier has a beneficial effect on the HF response of most sound heads, this is due to the simple fact that the slit of laser light emitted by the device is actually narrower than most slit masks, resulting in better HF response, for obvious reason. I've also observed that L-R cross talk is dramatically reduced, usually to the point of being un-measureable using L-R test film and my oscilloscope!

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-22-2001 06:53 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve the original post said it was either a cp45 or a cp55 so I was a bit confused which since the 45 has sr (sort of)
On the cine laser don't use it with a narrow slit as I have heard that it can be microphonic then

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 10-24-2001 02:50 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon you are mis-informed.

I have installed countless ACL's now, with a vast array of slit lenses and rep-sets, and only once encountered microphonics. This was on a Westrex 7000 machine, where the rep-set should be mounted on rubber bushes, only someone genius had seen fit to remove said rubber bushes, leaving the rep-set screwed securely to the body of the machine. I simply replaced the rubber bushes and cured the problem.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-24-2001 07:42 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I know that one was tested at Dolby in SanFransisco and they note microphonics when used with slits narrower than .5mil

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