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Topic: Carbon Vs Xenon

Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 02-12-2002 12:19 AM

Carbons would be great IF you could get them reliably, but you can't. All you guys are remembering the past. Maybe somebody should buy the production equipment from Morgan Specialty Graphite (the mfgr. of Nationals) and start making them again. If you do, we'll put the Magnarcs back and buy from you.

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Laurence Hammett
Film Handler

Posts: 16
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-12-2002 11:15 AM

I service 2 booths with carbons. One is a private residence in Belair - two Brenkert's
The other is Landmark's Ken in San Diego - Peerless. I am surprized to see so much traffic on this. I ran Carbons from 1972 until the theatres took them out.
The light is as good as the operator, equipment and media. I managed to get out of the booth on a daily basis but I was glad for Zenons if only for the consistency of an in-warranty bulb.

------------------
Laurence Hammett
Theatre Sound & Projection
Field Service Technician
4806 Fountain Avenue #48
Los Angeles, California 90029
projection35@earthlink.net e-mail
323-377-0882 Cell
323-660-0801 Home
425-984-9815 Fax

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Wes Hughes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 02-12-2002 06:37 PM

Bill: Have you guys already taken the magnarcs out of the byrd, or are you just planning on it very soon???

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John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 889
From: Freehold, NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-12-2002 08:19 PM

I ran both Ashcraft Super Cinex and Peerless Magnarcs back in the early 70's. Both were reliable and put out fantastic light. If the feed motors were working properly all you needed was an occasional trim. The water circulators could be a concern with the Ashcrafts. A malfunction would bring a quick end to those silver jaws, but I never had a problem. The light was superior to Xenon.

I do agree that it's tough to get good quality carbons today and that they are obviously impractical for multiple screen locations. Still have nightmares about forgetting to check the carbons before a changeover, even though I was fortunate never to have made that particular mistake.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-28-2004 03:05 PM

"However they were opening within a week and I put them in touch with Mark G. to round up some gear, some new, some used. In the meantime, while holding down a full time job at a post production center I ran this booth, every show for about 6 weeks until the equipment change was made. We had XL's and hour reels."
_________________________________________________________________

Yea I remember that place. They had Futura 1's that were poorly maintained over their life... typical of the poor equipment condition that was found in Chicago booths back then. It was a 1965 installation as thats when the place opened. The Strong rectifiers there were 440 volt and I don't remember where we picked up the 3 phase 208 for the replacement unit, but it was someplace nearby. The other odd thing I remember about this place was that after installing the used Xenex 1 we had about double the light on the screen that the Futura would put out. Could this have been the predecessor installation to Technalite?

I agree with John H. about the Ashcrafts. They were by far the best arcs ever made and the light output was very even and quite unbelievable. 98% of the downtown Chicago booths were Ashcraft equipped and had either Super Cinex's or just plain ole Cinex's. I wish I could latch onto a pair of them to preserve in operating condition. I remember that Lee Artoe had a brand new unused Cinex sitting upstairs at his place the last time I was there back in the early 90's. I wish I had grabbed it!
Mark

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 03-28-2004 03:18 PM

I don't think it was doubled but I do recall having the opinion that the Futuras were not putting out what they should have. It's annoying when something doesn't put out, ya know? [Razz]

I believe the utility's transformer supplied 480 or perhaps 277/480 (I vaguely recall the 440 warning sticker but I think it was wrong) and the theatre's own inside dry tranformers supplying the 120/208 so you got that right off the booth main panel.

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John T. Hendrickson, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 889
From: Freehold, NJ, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-28-2004 08:13 PM

Well, speaking of carbon arcs, The Peerless Magnarcs will be fired up at the Count Basie Theatre in Red Bank NJ on April 12th. Yours truly will be showing a sneak preview of New Lines Pictures "Laws of Attraction" at 8PM. This is a private showing for patrons and subscribers of the Basie.

I hope to see a couple of local Film Techers on that date. If anyone will be in the area, email me and I'll send you information on getting you up to the booth for the show. We can party between changeovers. [beer]

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Phil Blake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 558
From: esperance western australia
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 03-28-2004 11:17 PM

I learnt my trade on carbons , and more recently moved to xenons.

Although xenons are far more user friendly , I still believe the carbon delivered a much "warmer" image to the screen.

We used BTH suprexs at 180 amps these struggled to light our 100' wide drive in screen , later we changed to Ashcrafts , and I will agree they did a far better job and behaved better than BTH.

Damp rods and cracked mirrors were our main problems (180 amps generated alot of heat).

I have some nice pics of carbon lamphouses in my site www.westnet.com.au/dakota

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-29-2004 02:17 AM

I can see the color difference since prints were re-timed for xenon as opposed to carbon, but I suppose that to an audience the difference is as unnoticeable as tungsten lighting vs. sunlight. On black & white prints & earlier color prints, carbon light really looks best.

Operationally, day-to-day use makes xenon more logical, but at venues which run films on an irregular basis, carbon arc is the best. If I go in & it's been several months since the venue ran films, it seems I'm always futzing with & worrying about xenons which have gotten cranky somewhere from humidity or just disuse. With carbons, I just check out, sling 'em in, & go.

I think for those venues, carbons also make more economic sense for new installs. $2G-ish each for bulbs at startup, should have a spare, too, as opposed to $300 for carbons that will last a year or more.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-29-2004 03:16 AM

quote:
If I go in & it's been several months since the venue ran films, it seems I'm always futzing with & worrying about xenons which have gotten cranky somewhere from humidity or just disuse.

Interesting... Darren had a xenon blow up under exactly those circumstances. The theatre had been closed for almost three weeks due to flooding in the basement, so as you can imagine, the whole place was a tad damp. The lamp was struck for the first time on the day we reopened, to rehearse a print; and three to four minutes later... BANG!

The lamp would have gone anyway - after yet another one blew up we discovered that the lamphouse had an incorrect rating of ammeter on it and that we were inadvertantly running the bulbs at around 130 amps. But I did wonder if the coldness and humidity in the box had something to do with that explosion.

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Jim Spohn
Film Handler

Posts: 95
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 03-29-2004 10:20 AM

At the Granada, we are a specialty house and specifically installed Ashcraft Carbon-arc lamps because the light is superior. I have a pair of Strong Super-Lumex zenon lamps in the basement just incase we can no longer get carbons. Until then our light of choice is from carbon-arc. ... Jim

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Robert E. Allen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1078
From: Checotah, Oklahoma
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 03-29-2004 12:23 PM

I'm not sure you'll ever convince the new kids that carbons will outdo xenon lamps. But the one thing I have noticed is that just about every xenon house I have visited is underlit. In fact, it has become such a problem that Boxoffice did a two page article on it this month.

As far as carbons flickering goes they flicker only if you have the damper in your exhaust system improperly adjusted. I used to run with a perfectly steady flame. (Of course they were National carbons. I've heard stories today about other brands spitting and sputtering.)

I'm with the "carbons rule" crowd.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

posted 03-29-2004 12:53 PM

Anybody remember the dreadful BTH three electrode vertical xenons? In those days there was no contest, carbon was far better. There's no doubt that xenons have improved vastly over the years, the modern ones can be very good

I still like carbon, but there's nowhere still running it in this part of the world now. I could always tell when a cinema had converted, as soon as the curtains opened; it's a different light. It will be a sad day when the last arc goes out for the last time.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-29-2004 01:01 PM

Bob--you should check out some of the newer installations (or upgrades) in your area. Not the super-jumbo screens (which, I agree, are usually underlit), but the more reasonable sizes. Most of the newer installations (and older ones done by people who cared) can easily get 16fl. The underlit xenon screens are usually in older mall-type shoebox theatres which had inadequate equipment to begin with or the super-hyper-mega-Xtreme-monster screens that every new multiplex seems to have one or two of.

I usually run carbon once a month or so and occasionally have flicker issues; I'm not sure if it's a mis-set exhaust damper, the carbons (we use Marble's 8mm and 7mm), or the rectifiers. It's not offensively bad and, strangely, it seems to come and go. The light will be perfect one minute and slightly flicker the next.

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-29-2004 01:09 PM

quote:
I still like carbon, but there's nowhere still running it in this part of the world now.

The only venue I know of in Britain which still runs carbons is the Tyneside Cinema in Newcastle.

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